AMT Sock-it-to-Me Corvette MSP: Gasser Suspension Dynamics 101, Jan. 29

[Spex84]

I had a quick look in the reference folder for my own (stalled) M/SP project, and found this pic of the Brian Chuchua landspeed 'vette in 1960.

I saved the pic because it appears to have dual electric water pumps, which would get me out of the same jam--want a radiator, but with a blown engine that has no provision for a water pump in the stock location.

Also, I think the AMT "Mr.Speed" '53 Studebaker has a snail-style pump (part #15).

[Ace-Garageguy]

23 hours ago, Spex84 said:

I had a quick look in the reference folder for my own (stalled) M/SP project, and found this pic of the Brian Chuchua landspeed 'vette in 1960...

..I saved the pic because it appears to have dual electric water pumps, which would get me out of the same jam--want a radiator, but with a blown engine that has no provision for a water pump in the stock location.

...Also, I think the AMT "Mr.Speed" '53 Studebaker has a snail-style pump (part #15).

Thanks Chris. I have the same pic of Chuchua's rig in an old Hot Rod, but your posting saves me from having to dig it out.

And thanks for the reminder which kit that water pump setup was in. I knew it was in something, but you've saved me more hours of digging.  

 

[Bob Ellis]

I combined an AMT 62 with a Revell 1960. My cut lines were different.

[Ace-Garageguy]

On 5/21/2019 at 10:18 AM, Bob Ellis said:

I combined an AMT 62 with a Revell 1960. My cut lines were different.

The Revell front end (I'm assuming you used the Revell front) is much more accurate than AMT's offering I used, and would be much better for doing a street car.

My rationale for using the not-very-good AMT front clip is twofold: 1) The model is being built predominantly with parts that were available a long time ago (mostly 50 years +) even though some of the kits used are fairly recent re-releases. Part of the project involves proving the point that a very good model can be built using ancient parts and kits. 2) The model depicts a fiberglass clone of a Corvette body, which would have captured the corvette "look" but not necessarily accurate dimensions. This was a necessary departure in the backstory away from scale-correct, brought about by the poorly-scaled and sculpted AMT parts. M/SP cars had all manner of fiberglass and metal bodies, some derived from glass kit-cars, and warped out of all proportion and virtually unrecognizable, so a not-accurate clone body is in keeping with a believable premise for the build.

FYI: I made the body cuts where I did in part because, if you were doing a front clip swap or replacement on a real car, one available option is a skin that extends from the nose all the way back through the door openings. Grafting the new skins at the cove lines (again, on a real car) would allow for precise alignment of the new parts with existing material, and the resulting seam is easily disguised / hidden under the chrome trim that surrounds the coves on many of these cars.

 

Edited May 24, 2019 by Ace-Garageguy

[Reegs]

Late to this discussion. Brilliant work, Ace, just brilliant. I love those old /MSP cars too.

And kudos for the lesson re: "nose high".

Edited May 26, 2019 by Reegs

[Straightliner59]

On 4/20/2019 at 2:26 PM, Ace-Garageguy said:

The cross-tube let me place brackets on the chassis in the right place. The axle itself is still sitting in the alignment jigs I made several steps back. Bolt heads are model RR parts.

 

Bill, do you recall who makes these bolts? They look like cleaner castings than those I have, which are either Detail Associates or Grandt Line. I don't recall which.

[afx]

On 5/26/2019 at 7:41 AM, Straightliner59 said:

Bill, do you recall who makes these bolts? They look like cleaner castings than those I have, which are either Detail Associates or Grandt Line. I don't recall which.

A friend gave me some of these and they are great.  They are styrene in lieu of resin. The manufacturer is Tichy Train Group.  I don't know a source who carries their products however. 

Edited May 27, 2019 by afx

[Straightliner59]

10 minutes ago, afx said:

A friend gave me some of these and they are great.  They are styrene in lieu of resin. The manufacturer is Tichy Train Group.  I don't know a source who carries their products however. 

Thanks, JC. I think I may have bought some wire, from them. I'll have to check.

[boss 302 mustang]

Walthers should carry Tichy products

[Ace-Garageguy]

On 5/26/2019 at 7:41 AM, Straightliner59 said:

Bill, do you recall who makes these bolts? They look like cleaner castings than those I have, which are either Detail Associates or Grandt Line. I don't recall which.

As above, they're from Tichy Train Group. They can often be found on eBay, and Tichy also sells direct.  https://www.tichytraingroup.com/Shop.aspx?SearchValue=bolt+heads

NOTE: You'll have to do a little figgerin' to get the right size for your application. The packages are marked with the scale sizes represented for HO, O, S, etc., so you'll need to do the arithmetic to determine what's what in 1/24, 1/25, etc.

Just for reference, HO scale is 1/87. O is 1/48 (or so). S scale is 1/64.

[Ace-Garageguy]

On 5/26/2019 at 7:30 AM, Reegs said:

Late to this discussion. Brilliant work, Ace, just brilliant. I love those old /MSP cars too.

And kudos for the lesson re: "nose high".

Thank you, sir.  

[Straightliner59]

4 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

As above, they're from Tichy Train Group. They can often be found on eBay, and Tichy also sells direct.  https://www.tichytraingroup.com/Shop.aspx?SearchValue=bolt+heads

NOTE: You'll have to do a little figgerin' to get the right size for your application. The packages are marked with the scale sizes represented for HO, O, S, etc., so you'll need to do the arithmetic to determine what's what in 1/24, 1/25, etc.

Just for reference, HO scale is 1/87. O is 1/48 (or so). S scale is 1/64.

Thank you, kind sir. I have a selection of plastic RR bolts, but the Tichy offerings look much cleaner. I'll be adding them to my "want list".

[Ace-Garageguy]

Time to start bringing the engine home while working on other things. First step is to fill the old metal-axle holes in the block, sourced from the ancient AMT '57 Chevy.

Next, the floor and tunnel assembly turned out to be very fragile at the glue joints (no surprise really, as the tunnel is .010" stock). The floor also tended to want to bow up as the glue evaporated. The solution was to reinforce the joints with light angle, using the chassis as a fixture during drying.

Driveshaft straps helped in the reinforcement of the assembly as well, and maintain the proper curvature of the rear of the tunnel.

A little black primer prior to the "bare-aluminum" finish. Yes, I know there's a slight joggle between the rear of the tunnel and the front. It's a race-car. The floor and tunnel would be in and out fairly frequently. It might get a little bent. That's my story.  

She's getting a radiator, but I didn't have anything the right size that looked period-correct (downflow with brass tanks). I decided to scratch-bash something with a core cut from the forward panel of a '49 Ford, and the upper tank from same. The Moon fuel tank is from the parts bin.

Moon tank installed in the frame, accessible through the hood panel.

Here's the radiator progressing. Core separated from the support, upper tank holes for flathead hoses filled, parts for the side frames and lower tank laid out...

 

 

Edited June 6, 2019 by Ace-Garageguy

[afx]

Coming along nicely!

[espo]

Great fabrication work here. 

[Ace-Garageguy]

On 6/6/2019 at 7:13 AM, afx said:

Coming along nicely!

 

On 6/6/2019 at 10:16 AM, espo said:

Great fabrication work here. 

Thanks guys. Interest and comments always appreciated.

[Straightliner59]

Very nice work, Bill! I always find your models well designed and constructed, and, even better--interesting. Keep up the great work, man!

[Ace-Garageguy]

3 hours ago, Straightliner59 said:

Very nice work, Bill! I always find your models well designed and constructed, and, even better--interesting. Keep up the great work, man!

Thanks Daniel. Much appreciated.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Radiator's assembled, with side frames and support wings. Lower tank is laminated from two short lengths of stock, with the appropriate edges and corners rounded.

This shot shows how it fits snugly between the frame rails. I'll make little triangular brackets on the frame for it shortly.

There are several ways to run a water pump with a supercharged engine. Some setups use electric pumps. Some setups place the pulleys behind the blower drive, but in my mind, this tends to make the blower drive more flexible than is desirable, as the blower-drive cogs get moved farther out on the crank snout and the blower itself. I did some research, and found the Stone-Woods-Cook Olds-powered '41 Willys in particular used water pump pulleys mounted forward of the blower drive cogs. This shortens the very highly loaded blower-drive shafts as mentioned above, and also makes it far easier to change water pump belts. I've used the Revell SWC Willys blower drive assembly for a mockup, to get the spacing on the front of the engine about right, so I could locate the radiator where the hoses would be as short as possible. I'll need to fab up a custom blower drive for this thing too, as the spacing between the crank snout, blower drive shaft, and water pump shaft are very different on the AMT Chevy 409 than they are on the Revell 394-based Olds.

With the water pump and radiator issues somewhat dealt with, the next problem to untangle is getting the steering gear in the car. There will be conflicts with the exhaust headers, and I'd kinda like to make the steering shaft in one piece without resorting to universal joints to get around other stuff. Sometimes it's unavoidable to use UJs, but I'd prefer to build the headers to clear the steering rather than the other way around. As always, multiple mockups and looking at things from multiple angles are essential to get everything to fit, and Lefty is a big help in getting reasonably correct relationships between components that have to accommodate a human.

 

[Snake45]

Making tremendous progress! I'm tempted to pencil you in for Round 15 of the great Bring Out Your Dead Completion Build. (Round 3 will end at the end of this month.) 

[espo]

Looking at the problems you're having with this engine and the exhaust manifolds you mention reminds me of a project I'm working on. At first I couldn't remember where they engine came from, but the hole in the engine and the plastic color made me think it was either an AMT '63 Impala SS 409 or the '57 Chevy "Salt Shaker". I'm putting this same engine in the '60 Chevy kit that Round 2 just reissued. The exhaust manifolds want to run into the oil filter housing on the driver's side and the starter on the passenger side. I using a little heat, additional plastic tubing and some well chosen words. Just an idea on the exhaust manifolds as you get there.   

[Ace-Garageguy]

15 hours ago, Snake45 said:

Making tremendous progress! I'm tempted to pencil you in for Round 15 of the great Bring Out Your Dead Completion Build. (Round 3 will end at the end of this month.) 

Thanks. I might surprise you and make it by round 10.  

[Ace-Garageguy]

13 hours ago, espo said:

Looking at the problems you're having with this engine and the exhaust manifolds you mention reminds me of a project I'm working on. At first I couldn't remember where they engine came from, but the hole in the engine and the plastic color made me think it was either an AMT '63 Impala SS 409 or the '57 Chevy "Salt Shaker". I'm putting this same engine in the '60 Chevy kit that Round 2 just reissued. The exhaust manifolds want to run into the oil filter housing on the driver's side and the starter on the passenger side. I using a little heat, additional plastic tubing and some well chosen words. Just an idea on the exhaust manifolds as you get there.   

  Yup, some plastic tubing, a little heat, and some well chosen words will most likely be the hot setup.

[blunc]

17 hours ago, Snake45 said:

Making tremendous progress! I'm tempted to pencil you in for Round 15 of the great Bring Out Your Dead Completion Build. (Round 3 will end at the end of this month.) 

sign me up for round 25

[Snake45]

33 minutes ago, blunc said:

sign me up for round 25

Someone else will have to do it. I'll probably be dead by then. Or at least too senile to remember what a model car is.