Four door or sedan/post interest

[iamsuperdan]

I can't be alone here in believing that a 1984-1990 Caprice 9C1 wouldn't sell like mad ! After all , their 1991-1992 9C1 sold quite well , didn't it ?

Then there's the 1977-1978 Dodge Monaco ( MPC ) ... 1968 Fury I ( JoHan ) ... both A38 models , and both sold well .

As far as longroofs ? I'd love to see a 1964 Chevelle 300 two door wagon , with a 6 cylinder / Powerglide and a hot small block / 4-speed as options .

 

I want to believe.

The truth of the matter is that other than the enthusiasts like us, who is going to care about a kit of their mom's old boxy four door?  i'd be all over an 80s Caprice. However, the goal of the hobby companies is to sell more kits. And to widen the appeal of model building to a larger market. What's going to attract new builders? A hot new Camaro SS? A new Porsche GT3? 1985 Chevrolet Caprice. 

I think Exotics_Builder hit the nail on the head a few posts above. Very few new kits, and of those new kits, they're going to go with a surefire hit, not an oddball with cult appeal.

[disconovaman]

So funny, my mom actually did have one only it was a 2 door! I'll take a 78 Impala as a kit right now please! 

[Sledsel]

I'd buy these by the case. Unless of course it was screwed it up like a few other kits I have bought

[charlie8575]

I can't be alone here in believing that a 1984-1990 Caprice 9C1 wouldn't sell like mad ! After all , their 1991-1992 9C1 sold quite well , didn't it ?

Then there's the 1977-1978 Dodge Monaco ( MPC ) ... 1968 Fury I ( JoHan ) ... both A38 models , and both sold well .

As far as longroofs ? I'd love to see a 1964 Chevelle 300 two door wagon , with a 6 cylinder / Powerglide and a hot small block / 4-speed as options .

 

I'd love to see an eighties caprice done but without readily available police car decals I don't think they would sell well enough.

Given the current popularity of 1980s TV on channels like Decades, This, MeTV, Antenna, and a few others, I think John may be quite right, and a 1977-90 Impala, perhaps as a 2-in-1 with the correct options for a Caprice Classic, would be a very good seller. Police, rep-stock, and lowrider guys would all buy them, as well as people reliving part of their childhoods.

Charlie Larkin

[charlie8575]

So funny, my mom actually did have one only it was a 2 door! I'll take a 78 Impala as a kit right now please! 

If they did a bubble-back coupe...well, most manufacturers have kits in cases of six, so I'd be in for a case. These are one of my favorite designs of the 1970s.

Charlie Larkin

[DeeCee]

I like 4 door kits, as most cars in Australia had all the doors.

[iamsuperdan]

 

Given the current popularity of 1980s TV on channels like Decades, This, MeTV, Antenna, and a few others, I think John may be quite right, and a 1977-90 Impala, perhaps as a 2-in-1 with the correct options for a Caprice Classic, would be a very good seller. Police, rep-stock, and lowrider guys would all buy them, as well as people reliving part of their childhoods.

Charlie Larkin

So these would appeal to us older guys, but what about new blood? Does anyone really believe that a 30 year old sedan will have mass appeal to anyone under the age of 25? Would these generate enough interested to make it worthwhile and profitable to a kit manufacturer?

[disconovaman]

SO  these would appeal to us older guys, but what about new blood? Does anyone really believe that a 30 year old sedan will have mass appeal to anyone under the age of 25? Would these generate enough interested to make it worthwhile and profitable to a kit manufacturer?

I beleive it would do well because 25 yo guy would build a donk version (maybe?) and older guy would do police cruisers, taxi service, fire cheif, FBI, ATF, etc... etc... Just throwing it out there, 77- 91 caprice 4door with opening trunk extras included... luggage, police gear, and speaker system.  How about a K9 unit cage for the back seat while you're at it?  You could do a Demo durby  version, a bad guy get away car version, or how about a weathered rusty well used version?

lets face it guys, a true die hard model car builder would buy and build these types of subjects because True modelers are not just looking to build dream car/ fantasy/ wishlist cars. I set down at my bench daily to glue plastic together and  frankly I get bored seeing the same stuff get issued. I try to build less mainstream cars and trucks... Do something different for once, like the resent release of the Revell 442. Although I was told by a hobbyshop owner who said he heard they weren't selling all that great. At the end of the day though it is all about the all mighty dollar.

I'm passionate enough that if I ever win the big powerball I'm gonna start my own model car company and gear it towards offbeat subject matter. Probably go under in a year and be flat broke but at least models would get made that  I want to see get made... Mic drop. lol!

[Ramfins59]

I for one would definitely love to see a kit of a 1986 Chevy Caprice Classic.  I owned one and loved it.  It was one of the best cars that I've ever owned.  Unfortunately, due to a fuel leak at the carburetor, it burned to the ground in front of my home when the leaking gas hit the hot manifolds after I drove home from work back in 1996.   I never smelled any gasoline so I never realized that there was a gas leak.

[om617]

So funny, my mom actually did have one only it was a 2 door! I'll take a 78 Impala as a kit right now please! 

Great looking car

Here is my 77 Caprice when i was 18 (Excuse the grin)

Pearl yellow (Was original beige) with some meaty tires and chrome wheel. What a comfy car.

As for topic. The 77-91 4 door would probably sell pretty good,there are many police car fans. A stationwagon would also be cool.

[disconovaman]

That is one cool High school Hotrod! I had three during highschool... a 60 chevy Apatche, a 61Chevy Apatche, and a 74 nova. Mom's Impala was her first brand new car. She traded it off in 84 for a AMC Eagle station wagon. 

[ranma]

Four door kit's don't really sell? Funny that the Revell '91 caprice sold as a Police car, Taxi/Fire chiefs car, Revell issued the 94-96 Impala as well. Then there is Lindberg with their Ford Crown vic and dodge Charger police cruisers. Even revell Issued the crown Vic, and I forgot the '05 Impala cop cruiser.

Edited February 17, 2017 by ranma

[Snake45]

Four door kit's don't really sell? Funny that the Revell '91 caprice sold as a Police car, Taxi/Fire chiefs car, Revell issued the 94-96 Impala as well. Then there is Lindberg with their Ford Crown vic and dodge Charger police cruisers. Even revell Issued the crown Vic, and I forgot the '05 Impala cop cruiser.

 

And haven't I seen all of those in big piles, heavily discounted, at Ollie's?

[American 185 Heavy]

I would love to see 4 door model kits. I have had it with the Mustangs, Camaros, Firebirds, and every other sports coupe that gets re-released 300 hundred times. Although there are some wonderful coupes as well, like the 77-79 T-Bird or Cougar, no model company has ever even considered releasing one. Far too worried about another Mustang or Camaro model, even though there are already 500 plus on the market. There were an awful lot of sedans that were great in the late 70's and early 80's that would sell as models. And remember the car companies dropped two door models one by one, as they stopped selling. The market changed, sedans were more popular and the SUV made its debut as well. The entire auto industry changed gradually starting in the mid 80's but the model car companies never kept up with it. The best selling nameplate of all time was the Mercury Grand Marquis, and no model company has ever stepped up to the plate and done one sadly. So we will sit back and await re-release number 21 of the 67 Mustang or the 2015 Camaro. The new releases will likely feature working windshield wipers !!! Woo Hoo, care I do not............

[ranma]

And haven't I seen all of those in big piles, heavily discounted, at Ollie's?

Well didn't they also have mustangs/camaro's ,66 Impala,62 Impala, Amt 1/25 slot car's even F-150's and dodge pickup's plus many more? But I did not see any 94-96 Impala's or 91 Caprices! Also the 94-96 Impala was issued Four time's , Snap, street burner, Donk and low rider.

[disconovaman]

Well didn't they also have mustangs/camaro's ,66 Impala,62 Impala, Amt 1/25 slot car's even F-150's and dodge pickup's plus many more? But I did not see any 94-96 Impala's or 91 Caprices! Also the 94-96 Impala was issued Four time's , Snap, street burner, Donk and low rider.

Yep! I couldn't have said it better.... The thing about Olies is they actually get their inventory from an overstock company and those kits have never been on the shelves yet. But watch them fly off the shelves at Olies... they are not discounted because they don't sell well. 

[PARTSMARTY]

I would love it and I think my friend MARK ORR wouldn't know how to handle it-he would be off the planet-believe me on that-.MARK has to be going out of his mind just thinking about it-lol.I also think it is a possibility if manufacturers did some research on what people would want.I think there are some that would sell well.

Edited February 18, 2017 by PARTSMARTY

[PARTSMARTY]

I personally love post cars.

[disabled modeler]

I would love it and I think my friend MARK ORR wouldn't know how to handle it-he would be off the planet-believe me on that-.MARK has to be going out of his mind just thinking about it-lol.I also think it is a possibility if manufacturers did some research on what people would want.I think there are some that would sell well.

Man have you got that one right...if there of 60s/70s cars I am in.

[MrObsessive]

I was in high school when that '77 car was first intro'd in late '76 and I remember not liking it at all! It was a HUGE departure from the previous Caprice land yacht which I really liked (my football coach had one), and it would take a while before I took a liking to them.

Now, you never see them on the road, and I'd like to have a model of one now. I'm not gonna hold my breath though-------as popular as that car was, especially the four door, I'd be shocked if we ever see a snap/regular kit of it. As American 185 Heavy said..........there's a number of '70's cars that might do well in the plastic world-----my guess would be to intro them as lowriders or donks ('71 Riviera anyone??) and they'd stand a much better chance to sell.

I'd put money on a couple '77-'79 T-Birds, or perhaps the '77-'79 Lincoln Mark V's?? Oh yeah!

Interesting though how the tastes have changed in the public regarding four doors vs two doors and yet we don't get new tool kits of 'em. I think it's more of the fact of changing demographics compared to what they were 40-50 years ago. Too many people regard cars as some sort of appliance (Toyotas come to mind), and throw in the fact that young folks as a whole are not as car crazy as we were way back when, and there you go. 

Kit manufacturers have to watch every nickle and they'll be mighty selective in what they're going to spend their hard earned tooling dollars on. The Starsky and Hutch Torino seems to be doing well among the younger set because it's on TV, and TV cars will do well as there's that "star" factor to them.

At least that's one man's opinion..........

[Tom Geiger]

People on this board need to understand that we "over enthusiastic" model folk represent a small fraction of the US model car kit market. That's why we gained the title, "The Lunatic Fringe". What seems perfectly logical to us, appears like those guys dressed up in Star Trek uniforms to everyone else.  

Pick up a Hallmark calendar of cars. Look through it at the choices of the photographs. Those are the cars the general public recognizes.  Same thing when they go into the hobby shop, they see a '57 Chevy, a Corvette or Ferrari on the shelf, they recognize it and decide it would be a fine pastime to build the model.  These guys represent 90% of the kit market and decisions tend to be made in their favor.

Do not use the logic of what was issued in the 1960s as proof of marketability.  Different time, different market. Millions of kits sold versus today's tens of thousands.  Back then the bumper crop of annuals we received were dictated by the automobile manufacturers, voting with their pocketbooks, as they financed the tooling by ordering promotional model runs.  As they were making the tool for the promos, the model companies planned on converting that tool to produce a model car run as well. Nearly free tooling, with kits sold in the hundreds of thousands to a huge fan base.  So many of the sedans and wagons we saw back then were actually choices made by the car manufacturers than a demand by model builders.  

And note that there are stories about how kits came to be.  For instance the 1977 Dodge Monaco 4 door sedan came about as a companion to the wildly successful Dukes of Hazzard   General Lee.  That was the first kit to do over one million copies.  So they took the existing Dodge Monaco 2 door (which was a financed promo) and converted it to the sedan to become Rosco's Police car.  That was a cheap and easy decision and sold well as a companion to the General Lee.   

Today the model car companies have to be very careful with what they do. If you follow the market of  Revell and Moebius, you will see them gambling on tried and true classic hot rods.  These are cars people will build over and over.  Just note how many Model A and '32 Fords you will see at a model show. Eternally popular and guaranteed that the tooling won't fall out of favor in the future.  And they make sure that they will be able to do multiple versions to maximize their investment in the tooling. Note that these kits sell in the thousands, rather than hundreds of thousands or millions as in the heyday of the hobby.

Before someone jumps up to mention the Moebius Hudsons,  important to reveal that Frank, the owner of the company is a Hudson fanatic.  It's good to be king.  And Moebius has no less than eight versions of those kits to market to earn back that investment.

The kit manufacturers also understand who is their market.  Kids aren't building like we did when we were kids. In fact the kids of the 1960s ARE the same people building today, although in much limited numbers.  As an aging herd, we baby boomers are either retired or headed to retirement.  We have time and the money to be model builders. So the manufacturers are serving this market and the subjects that this age demographic remembers.  

And as said before in this thread.  We are talking the US kit market.  We have no influence on Japanese or German kits.  Those are aimed at their markets and sales in the USA aren't even a blip on their screen.  Those folks don't have the allergies that our herd does to sedans, so you will see more of that.  Many of you may not know that 2 door and convertible cars were heavily taxed as luxury items in many countries, so their staple was the 4 door sedan.  And they'll collect and build what they remember from their youth just as we do.

And that Euro / Japanese market has heavily influenced today's US car market. Today's younger car buyer has no problem with 4 door cars. They are normal.  Where our herd will scream that a Dodge Charger "NEEDS" to be a 2 door hardtop, they outsell the 2 door Challenger by a large margin.

Note that I'm just like you guys. I buy every sedan and wagon kit produced. I buy a lot of resin conversions too, you just have to be willing to make that investment if you want the subject matter.  I also am a student of the business end of the hobby.  So I try to understand and respect the decisions made based on the market.  These folks aren't stupid.   

 

 

 

Edited February 18, 2017 by Tom Geiger

[MrObsessive]

Those folks don't have the allergies that our herd does to sedans, so you will see more of that.  Many of you may not know that 2 door and convertible cars were heavily taxed as luxury items in many countries, so their staple was the 4 door sedan.  And they'll collect and build what they remember from their youth just as we do.

And that Euro / Japanese market has heavily influenced today's US car market. Today's younger car buyer has no problem with 4 door cars. They are normal.  Where our herd will scream that a Dodge Charger "NEEDS" to be a 2 door hardtop, they outsell the 2 door Challenger by a large margin.

Well said Tom! Now there's something I DIDN'T know! That explains the dearth of "sporty" vehicles out of Europe from the '60's! They were heavily taxed as a luxury item! Crazy!

And yes, I see MANY times more Chargers on the road than I do Challengers. Interesting enough, while Challengers are seen more and more, I still get the "wave" or flash of the headlights from other Challenger drivers.

I don't know if you read Car and Driver, but when the new for '06 Charger was being shown for the first time in an artist's rendering in late '04......the absolute SCREAMS of protest that was heard around the automotive world could be heard for months! Car and Driver went on to say a couple months after that issue went out that in all their publishing years up to that point, they had NEVER received so much hateful mail about one car ever!

Yet, as you said, even when the Challenger came out a few years later, the Charger went on to outsell them by a big bunch. Practicality rules these days, and for a number of reasons, most don't want to deal with a two door car. Of course, myself being single, I'll take one over a four door in a hot second, but if I had a family with kids..........well, that would be a different story!

[Chuck Most]

This thread makes me think of a couple of things... observations I've had for years regarding our hobby and 1:1 vehicles.

First, in the scale world, if you want that Hemi-powered two door hardtop, finding one in scale kit form is no problem, and a cheap proposition. Real life? Not so much. Even a two-door hardtop with a wheezy straight six is going to command a price premium over a four-door, or even a two-door post. Now, when you want to build a model of that four or two door sedan? You need to buy the existing hardtop, and then either buy the scratchbuilding supplies to convert it, or spring for a resin transkit... that is, IF one exists. So, you're spending more money to build what would be the cheaper car to buy in 1:1. 

Second, and I'll state it kind of bluntly for effect.... coupes are the "old fart" cars of today. Yes, I know that younger people still buy coupes. And when it comes to ponycar buyers they're all over the place. Even then I think it skews more to the Boomer market, because they remember the Mustang, Camaro, and Challenger from "back in the day", but even then, a lot of younger people want them and buy them because they're desirable cars. But, seems like most of the time I see a two-door car, some crusty, Clint Eastwood looking guy is at the wheel. Other than roadsters and two-seaters, think about modern performance cars. Seems like the majority are all four-doors. You have the Subaru WRX, Ford Fiesta and Focus ST, Mitsubishi Evo, and so on. Hell, even Porsche is in the sedan market now. BMW still makes coupes in the M series, but how often do you see those compared to the four-doors? 

Simple fact is, it's a different time now. People's expectations and perceptions have changed. That being said, I don't know how well any of this will rub off on the scale model market, or onto subjects more than about 20 years old or so. I do indeed think there are a few so-far-unkitted four-doors and posts that would be decent sellers, but as a general rule, all I can say that as much as I like the idea I'm not holding my breath for this to be the next hot topic in the scale modeling world. 

[Snake45]

We like exciting stuff. Go to any airport, how many Cessnas and Pipers and Beechcrafts do you see? Lots. How many Corsairs and P-51 Mustangs and Sabre Jets and Phantoms do you see? Probably, NONE. Now go to your hobby shop. How many Cessnas, Pipers, and Beechcrafts are on the shelves? If it's a well-stocked shop, you might find one or two. How many Corsairs, Mustangs, Phantoms, F-16? You can have your choice of scale, exact variant, even price point.

We like exciting stuff. My Mom's old '74 Buick LeSabre just don't spin my windmill.

[Tom Geiger]

 

 Practicality rules these days, and for a number of reasons, most don't want to deal with a two door car. Of course, myself being single, I'll take one over a four door in a hot second, but if I had a family with kids..........well, that would be a different story!

Hey Bill, you haven't lived until your daily life includes strapping babies in car seats in the back of a 1973 Barracuda!  Been there, done that!