Fran Hernandez 32 3 window

[MGL]

This is a model I've been thinking about for a while now. If you don't know the story of Fran Hernandez I urge you to check the following links: https://www.hemmings.com/magazine/mus/2008/11/Fran-Hernandez/1719420.html

https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2011/05/24/fran-hernandez-a-life-in-pictures/

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/hot-rod-legend-from-the-greatest-generation-fran-hernandez-rip.555417/

I have always thought his 32 was the perfect hot rod. I realize the classic hot rod is the roadster but to my eye Fran's 3 window defines the genre. It's subtle, well engineered, and fast. I've only been able to find a handful of pictures so I am going to have to make some assumptions. I don't do a lot of WIP posts as I would rather spend the time building but I am hoping as I move along with this that you guys will help me fill in the blanks. First, the car;

From this picture it looks like the suspension is stock, stock ride height, stock body not chopped or channeled. I'm assuming the interior would be stock also.

The heads are clearly Offenhauser, the intake is probably Edelbrock. Stock style fuel pump, offset generator, likely not running a fan. I can't be sure but I believe the wheels and possible the brakes are 40ish Ford.

This is an early picture of Vic Edelbrocks roadster. I have this here because I believe Fran and Vic may have collaborated. The intake, carbs, fuel line, and ignition look similar. Also, Vic's engine was red and in these photo's they look close so I think red will be the correct color. I will also go with the style header on Vic's car.

Here are those 40 ford style wheels again along with the headers dumping out at about the fire wall. In this picture the tread pattern on the rear tires match the 29 roadster kit but they would be too tall. I think I will just use the stock tires from the 40 ford kit. I need to get one for the flathead anyway and the street rod or convertible kit comes with the intake I need. I have ordered the heads and a photo etch kit for the grill from The Model Car Garage and the AMT double T kit for the quick change. I believe that will get me everything I need to build this. I also have a couple of Mod Rod kits and a 29 roadster along with the parts stash to fill in the holes. If any of you have any insight or observations that I've missed please fell free to post.

Edited July 3, 2017 by MGL
Replacing photos

[1930fordpickup]

Mark his sons  have posted some very nice  pictures on FaceBook in the past. I follow the page.  

I like what you are doing here. 

 

[dodgelover]

You are correct on the 40 Ford wheels. Suspension and ride height are stock as well. Looks like he did collaborate with Vic on the intake and carbs. Good luck and keep us posted.

[MGL]

  On 6/10/2017 at 5:19 AM, 1930fordpickup said:

Mark his sons  have posted some very nice  pictures on FaceBook in the past. I follow the page.  

I like what you are doing here. 

 

I did not know this, thanks, I am now following the page also.

[1930fordpickup]

I would also like to thank you for posting the other link's. I went and read them and found out he was living within a 30-45 minute drive from my house to the town he lived in. Very small but beautiful town. 

The pictures of the Autolite inline 4 carbs always make me smile. Dad worked at the plant they were made at. He said they had big pallet size crates of them. when they cleaned house they pitched a ton of them in the mid to late 70's.  Funny thing about them is all you need is just two barrel rebuild kits to fix them. Nothing fancy at all, for the most part.  To bad he did not pull a Johnny Cash and bring a bunch home. LOL 

 

 

[MGL]

Two more pictures of Fran's car, the April 49 cover of Hot Rod,

This next photo is cropped from the one with Fran next to the car, that's his leg at the edge. I increased the contrast, sharpened the image, and removed the noise. I may be mistaken but that looks like a friction shock from a 40 ford. If that's the case I may just use the complete front suspension from the monogram 40 ford street rod kit. I am going to run out to the LHS tomorrow and see if he has one on the shelf. I have the standard coupe in my stash but it doesn't have the intake I need.

 

Edited July 3, 2017 by MGL
Replacing photos

[1930fordpickup]

Mark ironically they just posted Vic Edelbrock  JR  just passed. 

[afx]

Clean classic hot rod - love it.  I'll be following your build.

[PARTSMARTY]

I absolutely can't wait to see more !!!

[Daddyfink]

I love that Classic look! Can't wait to see this one!! 

[Intmd8r]

Nice subject!

cant wait to see the progress 

[Dennis Lacy]

Excellent project!

Here's some things I can help with:

1) The intake manifold is definitely Offenhauser, not an Edelbrock Super. The Edelbrock had a different shape to it overall and did not have those "W" shaped carburetor flanges, it's flanges were "D" shaped and not raised off the manifold. Model Car Garage offers this exact Offy intake and it is beautifuly done so grab one of those. Also, the fact that in the one picture "Offie Equip" is written on the hood with no mention of Edelbrock.

2) The front suspension is stock with the exception of the springs main leaf. The eyes have been "reversed" so that they roll over the top of the leaf, rather than under the leaf as stock. This was a popular modification that any spring shop was capable of doing, even before WWII. This lowers the front of the car one inch.

3) The best starting point for a stock '32 front axle is found in all issues of Monogram's 1:24 '29 Pickup, the most recent being the "Blue Bandito" retro reissue. The most common issue you see of this kit is the "Early Iron" with a yellow & black model on the box.

4) The front brakes appear to be early 40's Lincoln as opposed to Ford. The Lincoln brakes were far superior to the Ford and are still a coveted hot rod item today. There isn't a scale version of the Lincoln brakes available so the Ford brake plates from any of Revell's '40 or '48 Ford's will have to do.

5) The distributor is a converted Lincoln Zephyr V-12 unit. The tell is the wide (left to right) coil on top.

6) The picture with him posed by the chassis clearly shows a later column shift has been adapted with what is probably a '40 Ford wheel.

7) The belt drive that you need with the generator slightly offset is found in Revell's '32 Sedan or '48 Convertible. The belt drive in the Revell '40 kits has the generator offset way to the right.

8) The headlight stands are cut down '32 fender inner braces. They are mounted to the frame in the stock location, just chopped off with a flat cap for the lights to sit on.

PS: The early Ford lever shocks are not "friction", they are hydraulic. 

 

Edited June 10, 2017 by Dennis Lacy

[Phildaupho]

I love these historical hot rod projects and will definitely be following along

[blunc]

  On 6/10/2017 at 3:49 PM, Dennis Lacy said:

Excellent project!

Here's some things I can help with:

1) The intake manifold is definitely Offenhauser, not an Edelbrock Super. The Edelbrock had a different shape to it overall and did not have those "W" shaped carburetor flanges, it's flanges were "D" shaped and not raised off the manifold. Model Car Garage offers this exact Offy intake and it is beautifuly done so grab one of those. Also, the fact that in the one picture "Offie Equip" is written on the hood with no mention of Edelbrock.

2) The front suspension is stock with the exception of the springs main leaf. The eyes have been "reversed" so that they roll over the top of the leaf, rather than under the leaf as stock. This was a popular modification that any spring shop was capable of doing, even before WWII. This lowers the front of the car one inch.

3) The best starting point for a stock '32 front axle is found in all issues of Monogram's 1:24 '29 Pickup, the most recent being the "Blue Bandito" retro reissue. The most common issue you see of this kit is the "Early Iron" with a yellow & black model on the box.

4) The front brakes appear to be early 40's Lincoln as opposed to Ford. The Lincoln brakes were far superior to the Ford and are still a coveted hot rod item today. There isn't a scale version of the Lincoln brakes available so the Ford brake plates from any of Revell's '40 or '48 Ford's will have to do.

5) The distributor is a converted Lincoln Zephyr V-12 unit. The tell is the wide (left to right) coil on top.

6) The picture with him posed by the chassis clearly shows a later column shift has been adapted with what is probably a '40 Ford wheel.

7) The belt drive that you need with the generator slightly offset is found in Revell's '32 Sedan or '48 Convertible. The belt drive in the Revell '40 kits has the generator offset way to the right.

8) The headlight stands are cut down '32 fender inner braces. They are mounted to the frame in the stock location, just chopped off with a flat cap for the lights to sit on.

PS: The early Ford lever shocks are not "friction", they are hydraulic. 

 

that is some great info, thanks for sharing with everyone.

[Bernard Kron]

Model Car Garage has the heads, but they are 1/24th scale and stand a bit tall if you use the 1/25th scale Revell Flathead. The fix is to lay a strip of .020 styrene in the space between the heads. It will raise the intake manifold the proper amount. I haven't tried them on the Monogram 1/24th scale flatheads, but I suspect they are a proper fit. Far and away the best and best detailed Stromberg Carbs are also from Model Car Garage. For exquisitely detailed and period correct speed parts, such at the exhaust manifolds, also consider Replicas and Miniatures of Maryland. This is a beautiful post war hot rod, the very essence of the period in which it was created. It would be thrilling to see it done to the level of detail and accuracy it deserves.

[MGL]

  On 6/10/2017 at 3:49 PM, Dennis Lacy said:

Excellent project!

Here's some things I can help with:

1) The intake manifold is definitely Offenhauser, not an Edelbrock Super. The Edelbrock had a different shape to it overall and did not have those "W" shaped carburetor flanges, it's flanges were "D" shaped and not raised off the manifold. Model Car Garage offers this exact Offy intake and it is beautifuly done so grab one of those. Also, the fact that in the one picture "Offie Equip" is written on the hood with no mention of Edelbrock.

2) The front suspension is stock with the exception of the springs main leaf. The eyes have been "reversed" so that they roll over the top of the leaf, rather than under the leaf as stock. This was a popular modification that any spring shop was capable of doing, even before WWII. This lowers the front of the car one inch.

3) The best starting point for a stock '32 front axle is found in all issues of Monogram's 1:24 '29 Pickup, the most recent being the "Blue Bandito" retro reissue. The most common issue you see of this kit is the "Early Iron" with a yellow & black model on the box.

4) The front brakes appear to be early 40's Lincoln as opposed to Ford. The Lincoln brakes were far superior to the Ford and are still a coveted hot rod item today. There isn't a scale version of the Lincoln brakes available so the Ford brake plates from any of Revell's '40 or '48 Ford's will have to do.

5) The distributor is a converted Lincoln Zephyr V-12 unit. The tell is the wide (left to right) coil on top.

6) The picture with him posed by the chassis clearly shows a later column shift has been adapted with what is probably a '40 Ford wheel.

7) The belt drive that you need with the generator slightly offset is found in Revell's '32 Sedan or '48 Convertible. The belt drive in the Revell '40 kits has the generator offset way to the right.

8) The headlight stands are cut down '32 fender inner braces. They are mounted to the frame in the stock location, just chopped off with a flat cap for the lights to sit on.

PS: The early Ford lever shocks are not "friction", they are hydraulic. 

Thanks for the information, I will keep that in mind when the heads and intake come in. I am going to make headers for it but you are right Replicas and Miniatures of Maryland does make some great stuff, I am planning on replacing some of the parts I've taken out of other kits with his products. 

 

Thanks Dennis, I knew you would see the things I couldn't, this is why I started this WIP and why I started it in the planning stage. I know there is enough knowledge on this forum to help me do this right. I ordered the intake from MCG this morning and then went by the LHS but they did not have any version of the "29 pick up. I will order one online on payday. The double t kit came in today and I have the 32 3 window and 40 standard coupe kits so I can get started mocking up the chassis, rear, body, and shortblock. Good catch on the column shift, I would have put a floor shift in it if you hadn't pointed that out.  I may just modify the belt drive from the 40 once I get the intake and carbs on. Apart from the coil it looks like the Lincoln distributer is close enough to the ford that at this scale I should be able to get away with scratching a coil together.

 

[Brian_R]

Mark,

Just so you're aware -

We were at the NHRA museum and compared the Revell 3 window body to a 1:1 stocker on the floor.

It looked like the kit had about a 1" or 2" chop.

When the kit first came out I think I remember this discussion about it.

I want to make a stock looking 3 window and the slight chop isn't going to stop me.

If you're not showing it with a 1:1, you can't really tell.

Brian

[Dennis Lacy]

  On 6/10/2017 at 9:32 PM, MGL said:

Thanks Dennis, I knew you would see the things I couldn't, this is why I started this WIP and why I started it in the planning stage. I know there is enough knowledge on this forum to help me do this right. I ordered the intake from MCG this morning and then went by the LHS but they did not have any version of the "29 pick up. I will order one online on payday. The double t kit came in today and I have the 32 3 window and 40 standard coupe kits so I can get started mocking up the chassis, rear, body, and shortblock. Good catch on the column shift, I would have put a floor shift in it if you hadn't pointed that out.  I may just modify the belt drive from the 40 once I get the intake and carbs on. Apart from the coil it looks like the Lincoln distributer is close enough to the ford that at this scale I should be able to get away with scratching a coil together.

 

This stuff is right up my alley, happy to help!

Since you're gonna order a fresh '29 Pickup kit, get the newest "Blue Bandito" version that I mentioned. It has all of the original 60's parts restored to replicate the first release "Blue Beetle." Lots of good retro parts in there for kit bashing. 

And yes, the distributor portion from the Revell '40 engine is essentially the same as a Lincoln, you'll just need to cut the coil portion off and make a wider one if you want it to look the part. Below is a Lincoln V12 distributor converted for Ford V8. You'll notice the tag says "Kurten" who was one of several that did this conversion back in the good old days.

Hosted on Fotki

[MGL]

Started today, nothing major, just the firewall and roof insert, and sorting and cleaning parts.

 

I haven't decided what I'm going to do about the interior yet. Because the car was clean and well built and clearly Fran did nice work I imagine he redid the interior but I have no idea what he might have done. This is the interior that came with the kit but I have been having a hard time finding pictures of restored 32 3 window seats and door panels. I could just use these as is or I could fill the groove in the panels and remove the tuck & roll in the seat. I am leaning towards gray or tan, I believe either could be correct.

Edited July 3, 2017 by MGL
Replacing photos

[espo]

Just a thought on the interior. If Fran had done nothing to the interior as you are thinking maybe it would be the old Mohair material. If that is something you would consider I have used Model Masters spray Fabric Tan and Fabric Gray and if looks very convincing.   

[MGL]

Some progress and a couple of steps back.

Under the assumption that he would have kept the interior mostly stock but may have recovered the 17 year old seat I removed the tuck and roll and went with the gray.

These are the wheels from the AMT 40 Ford and tires from the parts stash. Its hard to tell in the picture but the two bottom tires are smaller than the ones on top.

I need to bring move the front and rear axels up a bit and the tires seem too small.

At this point I'm not sure where to go. I've check every possible kit in my stash and I have nothing bigger unless I use Tim Boyds trick with the front tires from the Revell 29 roadster and the fronts from the Black Widow kit but they aren't the correct Firestone tires. Maybe I will mock them up and see how they look.  

 

 

Edited July 3, 2017 by MGL

[Bernard Kron]

For sure bring the nose down using the Boyd trick of shaving the front spring. Looking at the stance of the Hernandez car, cutting down the front crossmember won't be necessary. A great source of period 16"bias ply tires is from the Revell '40 Ford Standard kit. They're whitewalls but if you paint them flat black and put them on the inside they look fine. My favorite bias ply narrow tires tall enough to go on the rear are the Herb Deeks truck tires he sells. I buy them each year at NNL West. He sells on eBay where he has a store (HerbDeeksRetro). Drop him a line.

For the rear, if you hang the transverse spring below the rear axle line that should bring things into line. I'm sure that's what Hernandez did. It's the classic setup.

Here at the Revell '40 Ford tires on a jalopy racer I did last year. The wheels are the AMT steelies you're using. I shave some material off the inside of the Revell tires:

Here are the Deeks truck tires on a 40's lakes style Deuce I did, also last year. The rear end has a transverse rear spring hung below the rear axle centerline.:

 

Edited June 18, 2017 by Bernard Kron

[MGL]

  On 6/18/2017 at 3:57 AM, Bernard Kron said:

The Revell Tires and wheels were the first thing I tried but they still look a little to small. The Deeks tires look perfect, I just ordered a set. I think for the front I may use the tires from the blue bandito kit. I do plan to lower the spring but I don't think I will go all the way below the center since I put the quick change in the car. Thanks for the tip on the tires, I don't normally look on ebay and would have never found them. I remember the jalopy racer but I think this is the first I've seen of the other car, I like what you did there.

 

[MGL]

On the advice of Bernard Kron I relocated the rear spring mount and shaved a bit off the top of the front spring. I also took about 1/8 of an inch out of the center of the front spring, it looked a little too wide. Even with the small tires it sits a lot better now.

I wonder if he would have put a bar between the frame to protect the gas tank. Today I may try to get some paint on the body and start fabricating all the steering components.

Edited July 3, 2017 by MGL
Replacing photos

[Bernard Kron]

  On 6/18/2017 at 6:47 PM, MGL said:

I wonder if he would have put a bar between the frame to protect the gas tank. ....

Movin' right along and starting to look good. There's a rear spacer bar on the chrome tree of the Revell 3 window kit:

Edited June 18, 2017 by Bernard Kron