Hmmmmm, this could be an entertaining daily...........

[Joe Handley]

Been reading on this little Chevy Bolt lately, 14.9 in the quarter, mid 6's 0-60, over 200 mile range, and it's an all electric 4dr that likely wouldn't draw any attention unless you left a stop light with the front tires smokin'!

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevrolet/bolt-ev/2017/2017-chevrolet-bolt-ev-vs-2016-tesla-model-s-60/

Edited June 17, 2017 by Joe Handley

[Jon Haigwood]

Might be just right for some. Not me 

Edited June 18, 2017 by Jon Haigwood

[1930fordpickup]

I see this being used by Bank Robbers for some reason. 4 Doors so it blends in, fast enough out of the hole for street movement not making a bunch of noise. Get to the next stop for the other get away car.  Maybe I have been watching to much Escape channel. LOL 

[MrObsessive]

The tech is interesting and of course styling is subjective. But to my eyes, why must it look so--------weird?? I've become fussy about car styling lately, and I absolutely hate the dashboard over the front wheels styling trend I see in many small cars today.

As soon as I see that, I instantly think "no leg/foot room!" 

[GMCMAN52]

looks good all dressed in black

[FordRodnKustom]

I get the performance potential here as well as the fun factor and it would be a blast in a metro environment.. The styling is dead on with Chevrolet's corporate "look" too so it fits in the line up. That  said I won't ever get a vehicle that small until everyone else around here drives microcars. It's a bully free for all out there with huge SUVs and 4X4's. At least 'round these parts.

[iamsuperdan]

The tech is interesting and of course styling is subjective. But to my eyes, why must it look so--------weird?? I've become fussy about car styling lately, and I absolutely hate the dashboard over the front wheels styling trend I see in many small cars today.

As soon as I see that, I instantly think "no leg/foot room!" 

The reasoning for the shape is to get it as close to a "box" as possible, maximizing interior space, while keep it a compact package, and retaining aerodynamics.

I just spent time with one of these at a GM Fleet event. I'm 6'6", and not a tiny 6'66", and I actually fit quite comfortably. The back seat behind me became useless, but I fit.

If they kept the pricing reasonable, this would be a great commuter car. I spent a month with a 2015 Chevy Volt, and it was fantastic. Cost me $3 CDN in fuel over that month long period. Comfortable, fast, room for stuff, lots of features, and I thought it looked good. 

 

I wish these manufacturers would start applying hybrid and electric tech to vehicles that really need it. Like my truck. It's easy to take an already economical car and make it more economical. Let's see this tech trickle down to a truck that can tow a 30ft trailer.

[MrObsessive]

The reasoning for the shape is to get it as close to a "box" as possible, maximizing interior space, while keep it a compact package, and retaining aerodynamics.

I just spent time with one of these at a GM Fleet event. I'm 6'6", and not a tiny 6'66", and I actually fit quite comfortably. The back seat behind me became useless, but I fit.

If they kept the pricing reasonable, this would be a great commuter car. I spent a month with a 2015 Chevy Volt, and it was fantastic. Cost me $3 CDN in fuel over that month long period. Comfortable, fast, room for stuff, lots of features, and I thought it looked good. 

 

I wish these manufacturers would start applying hybrid and electric tech to vehicles that really need it. Like my truck. It's easy to take an already economical car and make it more economical. Let's see this tech trickle down to a truck that can tow a 30ft trailer.

One of my dislikes of most FWD vehicles is because of their layout, I find my legs "splayed out" when driving and not relatively straight out as they are when I'm driving my Challenger. Once again due to the narrowness of a lot of them, and the front wheel placement. Around town it might not be too bad, but on a long trip (over two hours) I'm DYING to get out of it as I tire of the center console digging into my right shin because I have to drive with my legs splayed. I'm 6' 2" (with size 15 shoes) and a lot of my height is in my legs as others my height might complain about the roof being too low, as they're taller in their trunk area.

True that no one can sit behind me however in the back seat of my Challenger!  But the car is nice and wide..........perfect for me!

And yes, I'd like to see this sort of tech spread around to more vehicles that aren't econoboxes.

[Tom Geiger]

looks good all dressed in black

I wouldn't want black on a tiny little dot like that. It needs to be bright red to not get run over

[LeadSled5]

As a long time stick driver, I thought that these cars would never even blip on my radar, but with retirement looming next year, I'm starting to think that a very low maintenance, cheap to operate car might make a perfect 2nd car.

[BigTallDad]

One of my dislikes of most FWD vehicles is because of their layout, ...

And they can't do wheelies either

[geewhiz]

I know the government and the environmental folks have to do what they do "to protect our planet" but I have to agree with Bill that the new cracker box vehicles are so uncomfortable to drive or ride in and they have not go much class as far as styling goes.  I drive a 2013 Honda Odyssey and I must say that it is the most comfortable ride I've ever owned and it gets decent fuel mileage and actually I've not really found anything I don't like about it.  I'm retired now but as a worker, I still preferred the larger vehicles for comfort both commuting and going on long road trips.  I'll pay the extra fuel cost for the comfort and I like the style.  We all have our likes and dislikes so no one is wrong in their personal opinions about what is right.  If I could I'd take a mid sixties Impala or Chevelle and outfit it with the newest technology and have the perfect car having both beautiful styling and modern technology.  Just wanted to throw this out there and I have no problem with those who prefer the small vehicles or those who prefer the mid to full size vehicles.  I guess I'm just a little too old school these days, lol.  Some very interesting thoughts brought out here and maybe I need to be more open minded.  Just my 2cents and I love reading what others think!!!????????

[Joe Handley]

I wouldn't want black on a tiny little dot like that. It needs to be bright red to not get run over

 

I get the performance potential here as well as the fun factor and it would be a blast in a metro environment.. The styling is dead on with Chevrolet's corporate "look" too so it fits in the line up. That  said I won't ever get a vehicle that small until everyone else around here drives microcars. It's a bully free for all out there with huge SUVs and 4X4's. At least 'round these parts.

 

That is a big advantage of the little things being so quick, especially if that is coming off a red light!

That said, not sure if I could drive one in red, it would look too much like an Angry Bird in red.

As a long time stick driver, I thought that these cars would never even blip on my radar, but with retirement looming next year, I'm starting to think that a very low maintenance, cheap to operate car might make a perfect 2nd car.

That's what I was thinking, use the 200 as a long hauler then look into one of those once they hit Carmax for a daily once they hit the used market.  My office is 3 miles from home, all at residential speeds until I get out to that last 1/2 mile or so from the office. If I hit the highway at all during the day, it's not typically for very long and since it's electric, I could just plug in at home every 2-3 days and let it charge overnight.  That alone is pretty handy!

One of my dislikes of most FWD vehicles is because of their layout, I find my legs "splayed out" when driving and not relatively straight out as they are when I'm driving my Challenger. Once again due to the narrowness of a lot of them, and the front wheel placement. Around town it might not be too bad, but on a long trip (over two hours) I'm DYING to get out of it as I tire of the center console digging into my right shin because I have to drive with my legs splayed. I'm 6' 2" (with size 15 shoes) and a lot of my height is in my legs as others my height might complain about the roof being too low, as they're taller in their trunk area.

True that no one can sit behind me however in the back seat of my Challenger!  But the car is nice and wide..........perfect for me!

And yes, I'd like to see this sort of tech spread around to more vehicles that aren't econoboxes.

I'm amazed you fit in that thing Bill, my kid sister has a '14 R/T Classic with the fancier seats and a sun roof. I'm uncomfortable in it and I'm only 5'11", but wide, being a fat guy and all, I find it has less hip room and is all around less comfortable than my smaller 200 sedan.  I do want to sit in one of those little Bolts now just to see how they feel inside. 

I do agree that this tech needs to find it's way into the larger platforms, also would be a great way for Buick to revive the Electra name! Use a variation of the tech on a big sedan with an upsized version of the Volt's drivetrain, maybe even with an all electric version too, Make the all electric a more basic version and call it the Electra, then add the hybrid stuff with some variation of the 2.2l Ecotec and and call that the Electra 225!

Edited June 19, 2017 by Joe Handley

[PARTSMARTY]

It's extremely practical-economical-and modern and only could mean one thing-definitely not my kind of car-lol.

[TarheelRick]

Maybe drop a 4.3 V-6 into it, not much for the econoboxes.  My question/concern is "refueling".  I can stop by the gas station and be in and out in a few minutes.  How long would it take to get a full charge in a battery powered vehicle?  My cell phone takes a couple hours for a full charge - that is a whole lot of cokes and chips at the 7-11 waiting for a fill-up.

[Joe Handley]

Maybe drop a 4.3 V-6 into it, not much for the econoboxes.  My question/concern is "refueling".  I can stop by the gas station and be in and out in a few minutes.  How long would it take to get a full charge in a battery powered vehicle?  My cell phone takes a couple hours for a full charge - that is a whole lot of cokes and chips at the 7-11 waiting for a fill-up.

So long as you have access to a 120v outlet, you can plug it in at home, no need to make a special trip to a station unless you want to get something from their store. The charge time is long, but so long as you just plug it in to top it off every couple days, charge time won't be much of an obstical. Another plus is instant torque, the motor makes 266lb/ft at 0rpm, that's not a typo either. Since it has it's full torque available right now, soon as the car is powered up, there is no waiting for a surge of power as the car accellerates, it just pulls. No shifting either since it has a single speed trans, just pulls to when you let off or it hits the limiter.

[Matt Bacon]

Electric or not, the shape's pretty typical for smaller European city cars: accommodation for four adults on the smallest possible acreage, with a very good view of the extremities for manoeuvring and parking in tight spaces. Bob Lutz has lots to say about electric vehicles in "Car Guys and Bean Counters" -- he was the man who pushed the Volt. The thinking is driven by the >80% of car journeys that are less than 60 miles daily, going to work or shopping, and recharging at home overnight. The time will come when there's a big enough fast charging network to top up your Tesla in the time it takes to drink a cup of coffee (it's already in place in Norway) for travelling from one side of the country to the other. Today, you need to consider buying an all-electric, plug-in hybrid, engine-powered hybrid, fuel cell powered or gas-guzzing V8 based on your actual driving profile. If I had the money, a BMW i8 would suit me down to the ground...

Personally, I think that we'll end up with all-electric plug-ins as daily drivers/second cars, and probably some kind of car-sharing/pooling of larger hybrids combining very efficient generator IC engines (1-1.5 litre with 200BHP/litre, like Volvo's recently demonstrated) or, even better, micro-turbines with mega torque at each corner, for when we need to go on those transcontinental trips. And a while after that, when we have the fusion economy, everything will be fuel cells!

best,

M.

Edited June 19, 2017 by Matt Bacon

[Craig Irwin]

Might be just right for some. Not me 

X2

 

[Joe Handley]

You know, the more I read about those little Chevy Bolts, the more interesting I find them.......................
2017 Chevrolet Bolt EV Drivetrain First Look (w/Video) - Motor Trend

I'm really intrigued by the motor and trans assembly in and of it self, kinda wiSh I had gone to the Chicago Auto Show this past February now

Then there is the battery pack"thumbsup"

No joke, I would consider buying one of these little critters, I would even consider a vanity plate for one, maybe "NGRY BRD" OR "NGRY BLT"

Edited June 28, 2017 by Joe Handley

[iamsuperdan]

Currently, here's the big problem I see with hybrids. 

Cost.

Let's look at the Chevy Bolt. Small electric car. We add the comfort and convenience package, and now we have a nicely equipped car that I can go and buy for $42200CDN. It gets equivalent of 2.1L/100km.

No look at the Chevy Sonic LT. Let's give it the Krypton Green package that includes the 1.4L Turbo and 6-speed manual, and let's add lowered suspension. I can buy that car for $18875CDN and get 6.6L/100km. 

How much fuel can I get for that $23k difference?

 

Now let's look at the Chrysler Pacifica van. The MSRP starts at around $37000CDN, they'll get 8.4L/100km.

And the Pacificva Hybrid MSRP starts at $52495CDN. It's ll get around 2.6L/100km.

Again, $15000 buys a lot of fuel.

 

Now you have the other costs. Plugging this in over night to charge will increase your home electricity bill. How much?

The other thing to consider...the battery pack on a Pacifica Hybrid runs $9800CDN. On a Prius, it's about $5000CDN. How long with that operate at peak efficiency? Batteries deteriorate over time. That's why an iPhone or Android has about two years of useable life in it before the battery needs replacing.

Where I live, temperatures range from plus 40 Celcius to -40 Celcius. How long will that battery stand up?

 

So now I have a hybrid, that costs a lot more that a normal fuel efficient car, and in five years (maybe?) I might need to put another $5k into it?

 

I think for now, I'd rather stop at a gas station once in a while. 

 

And for comparison, A few years ago, I drove a 2005 VW Jetta TDI. $45 CDN would get me around 1300km. And I don't do that hyper-miling nonsense.

 

[Matt Bacon]

See, here's the big problem with horseless carriages. Cost.

This 1903 Olds is going to cost me $1000. I got a perfectly good buggy here, only cost me $50, and even if I buy new horses, that's only another $100 or so. But I don't need to. Horses can get bred, right? And I just leave them out in the field grazing, occasionally give 'em some hay or carrots. I can top them up right there at home.

Buying that new fangled gasoline for an Olds is going to cost me darn near 30c a GALLON! And I gotta go to a special charging station to pick it up and put some in my so-called "automobile." Not so "auto" now, is it?  No, thank you. I guess maybe I could get one of those Stanleys that uses lamp oil for fuel instead. But then I have to wait half an hour to get it started, whereas I can just hitch my horses to the buggy and away we go.

You want me to buy a ve-hickle that's TEN TIMES more expensive than this buggy I already own, that I have to buy darned expensive strange chemical hooch from twenty miles away to run at all, and that needs an "expert mechanicician" every time anything goes wrong in that smelly pile of reciprocating gubbins under the hood? You're kidding, right?

I think for now, I'd rather stop at the feed merchants every once in while...

best,

M.

Edited June 28, 2017 by Matt Bacon

[Rodent]

Currently, here's the big problem I see with hybrids. 

Cost.

Let's look at the Chevy Bolt. Small electric car. We add the comfort and convenience package, and now we have a nicely equipped car that I can go and buy for $42200CDN. It gets equivalent of 2.1L/100km.

No look at the Chevy Sonic LT. Let's give it the Krypton Green package that includes the 1.4L Turbo and 6-speed manual, and let's add lowered suspension. I can buy that car for $18875CDN and get 6.6L/100km. 

How much fuel can I get for that $23k difference?

 

Now let's look at the Chrysler Pacifica van. The MSRP starts at around $37000CDN, they'll get 8.4L/100km.

And the Pacificva Hybrid MSRP starts at $52495CDN. It's ll get around 2.6L/100km.

Again, $15000 buys a lot of fuel.

 

Now you have the other costs. Plugging this in over night to charge will increase your home electricity bill. How much?

The other thing to consider...the battery pack on a Pacifica Hybrid runs $9800CDN. On a Prius, it's about $5000CDN. How long with that operate at peak efficiency? Batteries deteriorate over time. That's why an iPhone or Android has about two years of useable life in it before the battery needs replacing.

Where I live, temperatures range from plus 40 Celcius to -40 Celcius. How long will that battery stand up?

 

So now I have a hybrid, that costs a lot more that a normal fuel efficient car, and in five years (maybe?) I might need to put another $5k into it?

 

I think for now, I'd rather stop at a gas station once in a while. 

 

And for comparison, A few years ago, I drove a 2005 VW Jetta TDI. $45 CDN would get me around 1300km. And I don't do that hyper-miling nonsense.

 

It is a little different here. The Bolt with convenience package and nothing else is $38050 US. The federal government throws in a $7500 tax credit and California throws in a $2500 rebate. That makes it $28050. My local utility company will give you a free level 2 charger ($650 retail) or a $599 rebate. Installation isn't included. I don't have 220 in my garage, and the panel is about 60 feet away, so figure maybe $700 to add an outlet. The Sonic you cite is $20880 here. In reality, the Sonic will be considerably less than sticker right now, and the Bolt will be at sticker or above.

My employer has four 110V outlets in the parking lot for electric car charging, and they do not charge for the power used. Unfortunately, it takes forever to charge a car at 110V. Also, we already have two Tesla Models S (sometimes 3), a Volt, and four Fusion Energis to share the four outlets with.

[iamsuperdan]

It is a little different here. The Bolt with convenience package and nothing else is $38050 US. The federal government throws in a $7500 tax credit and California throws in a $2500 rebate. That makes it $28050. My local utility company will give you a free level 2 charger ($650 retail) or a $599 rebate. Installation isn't included. I don't have 220 in my garage, and the panel is about 60 feet away, so figure maybe $700 to add an outlet. The Sonic you cite is $20880 here. In reality, the Sonic will be considerably less than sticker right now, and the Bolt will be at sticker or above.

My employer has four 110V outlets in the parking lot for electric car charging, and they do not charge for the power used. Unfortunately, it takes forever to charge a car at 110V. Also, we already have two Tesla Models S (sometimes 3), a Volt, and four Fusion Energis to share the four outlets with.

Yeah, the US is definitely a little further along in green car rebates than Canada is.

Still, using your numbers, we're looking at a minimum of $8k US difference in cost to buy. That's a lot of fuel. And you still have the expense of the battery pack replacement down the road. 

Depends on how long one keeps their car too. Around here, 3 or 4 years max is really common. Warranty expires, get a new car. So it will be interesting to see what this does for used car prices down the road. WHen dealers, and companies like mine, have to start including a battery replacement in our reconditioning costs, that's going to make a big difference in what clients are offered for their used hybrid/electric cars.