fords upcoming mustang

[rel14]

the new mustang there talking about..   WHY?  why would you want or need a 10 speed transmission in it ?    unless your pulling a 86 thousand pound semi trailer.    to me.. its major over kill.....

[Ace-Garageguy]

A 10-speed auto gearbox is just a move closer to a CVT continuously (infinitely) variable gearbox.   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuously_variable_transmission

The idea is to keep the engine in the sweet spot of the power band where it's operating most efficiently (for emissions and fuel economy), and to be able to hold it close to the torque / power peak during hard acceleration.

The downside nobody talks about is tiny internal parts and huge complication.

This is fine (for the consumer) as long as the vehicle is in warranty.

But dog help the poor slob who buys one of these things used and has to put a gearbox in it (around $5 grand these days).

Edited October 10, 2017 by Ace-Garageguy

[Rob Hall]

Ford has been developing a 10 speed w/ GM for a while;  the Camaro is already available with an 8-spd auto and a 10-spd in the ZL-1 (same transmission, also in the Raptor), the Challenger has had an 8-spd auto since '15...the current Mustang only has a 6spd...a bit behind the competition...

Edited October 10, 2017 by Rob Hall

[Ace-Garageguy]

The following excerpt is from Motor's "Auto Service Guide Preview" released in December of 2016. Once again, the trans is "sealed for life", uses a very special fluid, and the conventional fluid-level dipstick is gone. I'm used to seeing old-school automatic gearboxes last well past 200,000 miles before needing significant work. It will be interesting to see how long these things last in the real world, and what kind of parts support there will be for them. Several manufacturers ALREADY refuse to sell internal gearbox parts, forcing an owner to buy factory UNITS in the event of a failure.

Rumor has it there's a 600+ HP ZL1 with over 400 drag-strip passes on the factory 10-speed autobox, and no problems to date. Nice if it's true, but I'll take the story with a grain of salt.

"Of all the new technologies, the 10-speed planetary-type automatic transmission is likely to be the highest in production volume because it’s going into the 2017 Ford F-150 and Chevy Camaro—and that’s just for openers. Is it the same transmission? Almost, as it’s the result of a joint venture between General Motors and Ford. What will be the same is the special ultra-low-viscosity fluid used, which is part of the low-friction engineering package designed for very fast shifting, particularly 1-2 and 3-4. Supposedly, that’s even faster than a dual-clutch transmission (DCT).

The gear ratios are specific. But 10 speeds from two brake clutches and four rotating clutches, a wide ratio spread in a one-piece aluminum case (including bellhousing), with an internal bypass to speed fluid warm-up, is common to the Ford and GM versions.

The GM version has a variable displacement vane oil pump. The Ford edition uses an electric oil pump, so it can maintain hydraulic pressure during an idle stop, for a smoother restart. However, the computer strategy does not allow idle stop in four-wheel-drive. There are no cast-iron parts anywhere in the gearbox.

The 10-speed is an option; the six-speed automatic is standard. So make sure you know which one is installed in the vehicle sitting in your bay. Like many new automatics, the conventional dipstick is gone on both transmissions. To check fluid level, you must remove a fluid fill plug from the housing, separate the threaded plug from a mini dipstick, then insert the dipstick to check the level, which should be at the midpoint on the 10-speed, near the top on the six-speed."

Edited October 10, 2017 by Ace-Garageguy

[aurfalien]

Hi,

My Nissan Cube Kröm Edition has a CVT and man it's in the sweet spot all day long, all 50HP!

Actually I've 123 but whose keeping track?

 

[restoman]

We just leased a 2017 Nissan Qashqai, AWD with a CVT. It's...ok. As a gearhead (pun intended) I just can't get used to the "something is missing" feeling when it's accelerating. I'm sure it's great on gas - haven't had it long enough yet to know how great - but compared to the fantastic automatic in our old S40 Volvo, it's not much fun. That Volvo unit always seemed to be in the right gear and the full-throttle-turbo-spooled-up shifts are a thing of beauty!

On a side-note, I cannot believe how difficult is it nowadays to get a manual transmission in some vehicles.

[Mark]

My Toyota C-HR has a CVT, but you can select a "sport" mode with seven "virtual" gears.  In that mode, you move the shift lever forward to upshift, back to downshift.  I haven't tried it yet.  I'd imagine that the CVT will be easier on CV joints.  I drove a Dodge Caravan the other day; until it warmed up, the 2-3 shift in particular was pretty hard which I'd think can be rough on the half-shafts over time.

With the computerization of cars in particular, you're going to see more and more "sealed units" with no availability of individual parts, and no rebuilding.  By the time the unit would normally need a rebuild, the manufacturer likely won't offer updates to the software anyway, which will render the vehicle obsolete.  GM has come right out with it: you may own the physical property sitting in your garage, but it operates on software...which they own.  They're going to dictate what can/can't be fixed, and for how long. 

[aurfalien]

We just leased a 2017 Nissan Qashqai, AWD with a CVT. It's...ok. As a gearhead (pun intended) I just can't get used to the "something is missing" feeling when it's accelerating. I'm sure it's great on gas - haven't had it long enough yet to know how great - but compared to the fantastic automatic in our old S40 Volvo, it's not much fun. That Volvo unit always seemed to be in the right gear and the full-throttle-turbo-spooled-up shifts are a thing of beauty!

On a side-note, I cannot believe how difficult is it nowadays to get a manual transmission in some vehicles.

Hi,

I agree, there CVT sux.

It in fact does not keep the engine in the sweet spot however if I feather the throttle just right, I can manage a bit.

I think it may keep the engine in the sweet spot MPG wise but certainly not the speed/fun spot.

 

[Rob Hall]

Never had a CVT but have never heard anything good about them.  I like the ZF 8 spd auto in my Jeep, very smooth....have the paddle shifters and a sport mode also, but usually just put in D and go...

[Ace-Garageguy]

  ...By the time the unit would normally need a rebuild, the manufacturer likely won't offer updates to the software anyway, which will render the vehicle obsolete.  GM has come right out with it: you may own the physical property sitting in your garage, but it operates on software...which they own.  They're going to dictate what can/can't be fixed, and for how long. 

One thing I find fascinating is that during my youth, there was a lot of resentment to what consumer advocates came to label "planned obsolescence", but in today's world, where there's so much more information available, there seems to be less understanding, and much less resistance to getting hosed.

Consumers have been brainwashed to believe that they HAVE to have the latest tech to be happy, that a car is a disposable item just like a phone, with about the same lifespan, and that a car-payment is a necessary part of life.

When the current crop of new vehicles has trickled down to those folks who can only afford to buy used, there are going to be a lot more people walking.

[Mark]

When the current crop of new vehicles has trickled down to those folks who can only afford to buy used, there are going to be a lot more people walking.

More people dependent on public transportation, more people dependent on big government...that's probably as far as I should go in this direction...

[Bernard Kron]

We're headed into some sort of "peak technology/peak complexity" nexus. As automobiles become more "sophisticated" and designers enlist technology to play an endless game of wack-a-mole, vehicles of all kinds become ever more complicated, bogged down with feature bloat. The rear view mirror is about to be legislated out of existance and replaced by a TV camera. What possible purpose can this serve? Marketers are desperate to come up with something "new" to talk about and designers and engineers long ago abandoned any desire to achieve technical elegance. Efficiency is an illusion, hiding behind spiraling design and capital costs. The global auto industry's "solution" to the conundrum of price and feature bloat is to turn it's back on the problem and have us rent space on a networked grid of autonomous vehicles, the subscription to which will prove to be far more expensive than the cost of ownership of a simple automobile, but hidden in the steady drip, drip, drip of incremental use payments. But already the subscription model is under attack in the entertainment and communication spaces where sales are rapidly shrinking for cell phone operators and cable companies alike. The cost/price/feature spiral of the iPhone, for example, seems to have hit its peak, and soon Netflix will find itself under attack by every other "network effect" technology play (think Amazon, Google, Facebook, Twitter, et al) vying to turn itself into the next Disney. Comcast may very well have already joined AOL and Yahoo in the dustbin of history, but we may have to wait to see how/if they survive. Will the auto industry make it all the way to self destruction with autonomous driving networks or will it all get too expensive too fast to play itself out?

[restoman]

Yeah, the Qashqai has that X-Tronic sport mode as well. Haven't tried it yet...

Up until the day when I could no longer move my feet fast enough to step on the brakes in a hurry, this was my chosen daily driver: about as basic as you can get and still not get the s*&t kicked out of going down the road. Wish I could still drive it...

No computers, no fancy back up systems, no A\C, no ABS, etc... just a basic car.

[aurfalien]

Yeah, the Qashqai has that X-Tronic sport mode as well. Haven't tried it yet...

Up until the day when I could no longer move my feet fast enough to step on the brakes in a hurry, this was my chosen daily driver: about as basic as you can get and still not get the s*&t kicked out of going down the road. Wish I could still drive it...

No computers, no fancy back up systems, no A\C, no ABS, etc... just a basic car.

Hi,

And hella fun to drive.

I'm sad that with new cars one is so isolated from the experience of driving.

 

[TarheelRick]

Yeah, the Qashqai has that X-Tronic sport mode as well. Haven't tried it yet...

Up until the day when I could no longer move my feet fast enough to step on the brakes in a hurry, this was my chosen daily driver: about as basic as you can get and still not get the s*&t kicked out of going down the road. Wish I could still drive it...

No computers, no fancy back up systems, no A\C, no ABS, etc... just a basic car.

Bugs are such fun to drive.  Not a whole lot of neck-snapping power to speak of, but pure fun.  Just wondering if the dog is getting ready or has already washed your tires?

[MrObsessive]

I like VW Bugs, but man----------that is one cramped ride for me to drive! I'm just too tall for 'em as there just isn't enough legroom for me. The way the pedals also pivot at the bottom didn't help any. Same goes for Karmann Ghias.........my head always hit the roof in those things.

I'm noticing what looks like a curved windshield----is that a Super Beetle? My sister had one and loved it to death till my Brother-in-Law wrecked it one day.

Edited October 10, 2017 by MrObsessive

[Dave Van]

Hi,

My Nissan Cube Kröm Edition has a CVT and man it's in the sweet spot all day long, all 50HP!

Actually I've 123 but whose keeping track?

 

Bought the wife a Cube in 2009. She thought it was cute.....my 6' 2" frame was very comfortable in it. 

The few times I drove it I never warmed to the CVT....LOVED the design of the car.....biggest small car on the market.....but that CVT just was not my cup of tea. Does yours control it's speed on downhills in cruise mode??? Ours would run away from us. 

[Eshaver]

Here's MY answer to NO computer, NO High tech , a NO option 1978 Ford F-100

[aurfalien]

Bought the wife a Cube in 2009. She thought it was cute.....my 6' 2" frame was very comfortable in it. 

The few times I drove it I never warmed to the CVT....LOVED the design of the car.....biggest small car on the market.....but that CVT just was not my cup of tea. Does yours control it's speed on downhills in cruise mode??? Ours would run away from us. 

Hi,

The car has a great design, like the hot tub jacuzzi dash board, the pig with sunglasses front end and the tear drop ceiling and speaker grills.

Plus the moon, water color theme on the dashboard is very cool.

But the CVT sux and it does try to control downhill speed.

I about had it today as I floored it and the CVT took forever to get is a$$ in gear, just barely avoided a wreck ahead.  Hoping to chip the tranny for a more aggressive profile.

What a POS tranny.

PS But then again an aggressive chip may fry the tranny as I've heard others with Cubes have tranny issues.  I've not had issues as I know how to baby machinery, it;s almost like I can hear and feel them.

 

 

Edited October 10, 2017 by aurfalien

[Leonidas]

My old '94 Suburban is a 4 speed auto. Don't need any more gears than that, it's just perfect the way it is.

Edited October 10, 2017 by Leonidas

[martinfan5]

Our 15 Altima has the CVT, not a big fan of it.

[Dragline]

All American 2000 Iron for me. My Cavalier SS is fun, I can work on it and I have no payments. The last year has seen nearly everything go bad all at once. BUT, it was as bought except for a few mods I made some years ago. The alternator, starter, PS pump, front calipers and hoses, a rear drum rebuild. I overheated it 2 years ago so it has a hotter cylinder head now. Got 6 years out of a NAPA battery but just had to change it. Put four tires on my aftermarket rims. it's got a few dings which I will remove this coming spring and spray it silver again minus the goofy but tasteful graphic it has. the plan down the road is a 380Hp supercharged Ecotec with a manual. Cobalt rear calipers and a handling package. Then I'll just cruise the Benz full time and take it out on weekends.

 

 

Try that with anything newer than say around "10". Nothing NEW for me thank you. Cripes, even my bike is an 85, and that's the newest bike chassis I've ever owned.

[restoman]

I like VW Bugs, but man----------that is one cramped ride for me to drive! I'm just too tall for 'em as there just isn't enough legroom for me. The way the pedals also pivot at the bottom didn't help any. Same goes for Karmann Ghias.........my head always hit the roof in those things.

I'm noticing what looks like a curved windshield----is that a Super Beetle? My sister had one and loved it to death till my Brother-in-Law wrecked it one day.

Yup, A Stupor Beetle. At 5'11" I had ample room, but my 6'3" son can't even get his legs past the steering wheel... 

[iamsuperdan]

Here's MY answer to NO computer, NO High tech , a NO option 1978 Ford F-100

 

I love that. I want a late 70s truck in a major way. Ford, Dodge, GM, whatever.

[Eshaver]

I love that. I want a late 70s truck in a major way. Ford, Dodge, GM, whatever.

Dan , I'm NOT married to Agnes. That is the 78 Ford . I have a 53 Ford Panel that is mostly original . Why not come down for a week end visit into Virginia and I'll give you my two hour tour of former Architecturally significant former service stations , ( 1915-1940 ) . I'm told Richmond Virginia has some of the LAST KNOWN examples of some of these service station buildings too....