BB Chevy Engine Question

[Ace-Garageguy]

40 minutes ago, Can-Con said:

What? you guys never heard of a "draw thru" turbo setup? But, yea, the Monogram setup is missing the extra pipe that should go form the compressor [where those air cleaners are in the ends] to the manifold.

Yeah, I've heard of draw-through. And blow-through. And I've designed and built and tuned them. 

The thing in the instructions is an idiot mess designed by somebody who doesn't have a clue.

Edited February 4, 2018 by Ace-Garageguy

[Can-Con]

3 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Yeah, I've heard of draw-through. And blow-through. And I've designed and built and tuned them. Have you?

The thing in the instructions is an idiot mess designed by somebody who doesn't have a clue.

No Bill, I don't have any knowledge on the subject whatsoever. Never had a turbo equipped car, never worked on a turbo equipped car and have only rode in one turbo equipped car and that was a Chevy Cruise. Does this mean I shouldn't have posted in this thread? If so, I apologise.

 I will make it a point to never post anything in any more threads past a generic "atta boy" or "good job".

But I do know what came in what kit and how to look at a picture. 

Like I said in my last post, it looks like the Monogram kit setup is missing a pipe from the compressor to the manifold, is that right? 

 

[Jantrix]

 

1 hour ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

The illustration on the right appears to me to be plumbed incorrectly. 

The compressor sections appear to have air filters on the inlet side, and the outlet side blows into a box under the carb.

If this is actually made the way it appears, it is idiocy.

Bill and I have discussed this intake a couple of times. I can find no 1:1 reference to this setup anywhere. However, making this engine work properly, wouldn't take a lot of modifications. I have some pics on my other PC of the right way. Do a Google search for draw through turbos and you'll eventually find a dual turbo Pantera that shows the right way quite clearly. I will eventually get around to building a version.

[Muncie]

'We've been thru this turbo set-up before - Monogram's version of the Accell Turbo-Sonic kit is simplified and missing a few pieces..  Way too early on a quiet Sunday morning before the big game to go thru this again.   

 

Edited February 4, 2018 by Muncie

[Snake45]

Okay, rather than getting into fights and/or tedious techno-talk about turbos, I'll just take turbo off the table. It's just a little "out there" for the build I have in mind anyway. But I appreciate the efforts. 

The 2x4 manifold in the '67 Chevelle Pro Street is looking better and better. But I'm still intrigued by the 3x2 idea, and I'm sure I have some of those on hand from either AMT or Revell '67 Corvettes. Was this really a "hot setup" for the street in the late '70s? (Even if not, it might be just oddball enough to work really well on this particular build.) 

[Muncie]

Mid to Late 70's, the parts stores around here sold a lot of Edelbrock four barrel manifolds with a Holley double pumper - some of the high performance Chevrolet factory manifolds weren't bad either.  The dual quad manifold was probably discontinued by the late 70's but there would have been some still around.   In general, the dual plane manifolds gave better low end power and street performance.  The single plane Torker and Tarantula manifolds -  like the TM2R Tarantula John posted above were for higher RPM and better for racing.

Edited February 4, 2018 by Muncie

[Ace-Garageguy]

24 minutes ago, Can-Con said:

No Bill, I don't have any knowledge on the subject whatsoever. Never had a turbo equipped car, never worked on a turbo equipped car and have only rode in one turbo equipped car and that was a Chevy Cruise. Does this mean I shouldn't have posted in this thread? If so, I apologise.

 I will make it a point to never post anything in any more threads past a generic "atta boy" or "good job".

But I do know what came in what kit and how to look at a picture. 

Like I said in my last post, it looks like the Monogram kit setup is missing a pipe from the compressor to the manifold, is that right? 

 

That idiot mess is missing more than a couple of pipes. The plumbing that IS there is wrong.

The air-box under the carb, if it's a draw-through, should be connected to the inlet side of the compressors where the air filters are (or whatever the hell 53 is supposed to be).

The outlets (discharge) of the compressors should be connected to the inlet manifold, SEALED OFF from the air box under the carb.

I'll never understand why people want to argue about things they don't know.

 

Edited February 4, 2018 by Ace-Garageguy

[Can-Con]

4 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

 

I'll never understand why people want to argue about things they don't know.

 

Atta boy.

[Ace-Garageguy]

3 minutes ago, Can-Con said:

Atta boy.

You know...I've just about had it with this forum.

All I've ever tried to do was HELP people, try to post FACTUAL information based on EDUCATION and EXPERIENCE, and people want to argue, and then get mad and pissy.

Edited February 4, 2018 by Ace-Garageguy

[Can-Con]

Just now, Ace-Garageguy said:

You know...I've just about had it with this forum.

You try to educate people, try to post FACTUAL information based on EDUCATION and EXPERIENCE, and people want to argue, and then get mad and pissy.

Bill, why do you think you have to educate me on how a turbocharger works anyway? 

Contrary to what you might think, not everyone on this forum is an idiot. I'm one, sure , but not everyone is.

I know from reading your posts over the years that you are trying to be helpful but maybe being confrontational when you try to correct someone may not be the best way to go?

"Yeah, I've heard of draw-through. And blow-through. And I've designed and built and tuned them. Have you?" seemed very confrontational to me, especially the "Have you?" part. 

The OP asked a question about a model and I posted a couple suggestions on what was available. I'm no mechanic and I don't pretend to be, but I do know something about plastic model kits, which is, they usually don't run no matter how accurately they are built. 

I really think the problem here is you are talking about real turbochargers and I'm talking about little peices of plastic which are supposed to look like turbochargers and they are not the same thing. 

Anyway, You know you are not going to quit the forum. You've been in a lot bigger dust-ups in the past and will be in more in the future. 

I still consider you one of the few friends I have here so I hope you're not to P'd off. 

[Can-Con]

Anyway, gotta go run the old snowblower through the yard for the third time this week. Later.

[Snake45]

10 minutes ago, Can-Con said:

I still consider you one of the few friends I have here so I hope you're not to P'd off. 

Me too and me too. 

If I'd had ANY idea that this would become contentious, I'd have NEVER mentioned turbos in the OP. I'm sorry. 

[Ace-Garageguy]

25 minutes ago, Can-Con said:

I still consider you one of the few friends I have here so I hope you're not to P'd off. 

Nope. Just me being a butt. 

14 minutes ago, Snake45 said:

If I'd had ANY idea that this would become contentious, I'd have NEVER mentioned turbos in the OP. I'm sorry. 

Sorry again if I seemed like I was being a butt.

It's one of my better-known talents.  

Both blow-through and suck-through carbureted systems were popular in the '70s. Each style has its own strengths and weaknesses. And it just seems to me like if somebody is going to model one, they may as well make the thing look like it would work in reality.

Edited February 4, 2018 by Ace-Garageguy

[JollySipper]

Hey, Snake.... you said you would maybe use fuel injection, how about Tuned Port? I believe it was getting popular in the early '80s........

I have a TPI set-up from a Monogram kit that's chrome if you want to that route...........

[Snake45]

1 hour ago, JollySipper said:

Hey, Snake.... you said you would maybe use fuel injection, how about Tuned Port? I believe it was getting popular in the early '80s........

I have a TPI set-up from a Monogram kit that's chrome if you want to that route...........

Appreciate the offer, but I think it would be a little high-tech for what I have in mind. 

[George Bojaciuk]

Guy had a '55 Nomad in primer gray, in the "hood" . Had the tri-power 427 under the hood. It was a work of art. Once he got those carbs in sync, that sucker smoked tires all day long! This was '77.

[Snake45]

Cool story! 

Edited February 5, 2018 by Snake45

[Exotics_Builder]

11 hours ago, Can-Con said:

 

What? you guys never heard of a "draw thru" turbo setup? But, yea, the Monogram setup is missing the extra pipe that should go form the compressor [where those air cleaners are in the ends] to the manifold.

http://www.dailyturismo.com/2013/04/05k-new-old-stock-martin-turbo-systems.html

Heard of them but never really saw one in use.  And the plumbing did not look right

 

[alan barton]

Snake, I don't know if I can find it in my stash but one of those great big MPC Chevy Caprices that came with a trailer had a very cool turboed big block in it. I'm thinking 1975 or 76.  I still have the motor somewhere.  The car was moulded in a deep blue shade.  If I can find it I will post a photo.  Problem is, I can't remember if it stuck through the hood or not.  Maybe one of the instruction sheet experts on here can track it down.  Definitely MPC, definitely a Caprice, just don't recall the exact year.

Cheers

Alan

[Snake45]

50 minutes ago, alan barton said:

Snake, I don't know if I can find it in my stash but one of those great big MPC Chevy Caprices that came with a trailer had a very cool turboed big block in it. I'm thinking 1975 or 76.  I still have the motor somewhere.  The car was moulded in a deep blue shade.  If I can find it I will post a photo.  Problem is, I can't remember if it stuck through the hood or not.  Maybe one of the instruction sheet experts on here can track it down.  Definitely MPC, definitely a Caprice, just don't recall the exact year.

Cheers

Alan

I appreciate the thought, but please, don't go to the trouble. I've decided that turbo's just not right for this build, and it's just a glue bomb resto anyway, certainly not worth using any rare parts on. 

[tim boyd]

Trusting my memory here (always a risky bet without checking to make sure, but assuming it is correct (this time)), the MPC 1972 Chevelle SS annual kit and a number of reissues had a  BB dual turbocharger option in the kit.  I don't recall whether it was factually correct in its plumbing but it was a real eye catcher.... TIM 

[Exotics_Builder]

7 hours ago, tim boyd said:

Trusting my memory here (always a risky bet without checking to make sure, but assuming it is correct (this time)), the MPC 1972 Chevelle SS annual kit and a number of reissues had a  BB dual turbocharger option in the kit.  I don't recall whether it was factually correct in its plumbing but it was a real eye catcher.... TIM 

 

[JollySipper]

Hows 'bout the super charger from one of the Revell '57 Ford wagon gasser kits? I have those parts here, but no instructions as to how to put it together....

I believe it would fit under the hood, and could be adapted to fit what ever engine.......

[Ace-Garageguy]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The turbo setup shown above appears to be another "artistic interpretation" that has only a passing relationship to actual function in reality.

The plumbing, as shown, would have the two exhaust manifolds blowing into a T, directly at each other apparently. A HUGE flow restriction. Then the exhaust gas is supposed to find its way to the turbine (I assume that the T and the lower 1/2 of an insulated shroud around the entire turbo unit, and the lower half of the turbine exhaust, is what's supposed to be represented by part #13, with #12 being the upper half of the shroud and exhaust from the turbine section), and exhaust out to the engine compartment, at the far side of 12/13. Parts 10 and 11 are apparently an air intake for the compressor section (with no filter), and the output of the compressor is apparently directed into the top of the carb.

Yes, it's a "blow through" system and it's sorta OK, but really misses the mark for anyone wanting realism...if the parts look like the instructions.

 

 

Edited February 7, 2018 by Ace-Garageguy

[Exotics_Builder]

2 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The turbo setup shown above appears to be another "artistic interpretation" that has only a passing relationship to actual function in reality.

The plumbing, as shown, would have the two exhaust manifolds blowing into a T, directly at each other apparently. A HUGE flow restriction. Then the exhaust gas is supposed to find its way to the turbine (I assume that the T and the lower 1/2 of an insulated shroud around the entire turbo unit, and the lower half of the turbine exhaust, is what's supposed to be represented by part #13, with #12 being the upper half of the shroud and exhaust from the turbine section), and exhaust out to the engine compartment, at the far side of 12/13. Parts 10 and 11 are apparently an air intake for the compressor section (with no filter), and the output of the compressor is apparently directed into the top of the carb.

Yes, it's a "blow through" system and it's sorta OK, but really misses the mark for anyone wanting realism...if the parts look like the instructions.

 

 

As best I can tell, that is the way the kit is.  Assuming you can find one.  This is what Tim was referencing.  A lot of turbo setups in AMERICAN manufacturer kits seem to have odd plumbing.