Serious 3D printing inquiry...

[Dann Tier]

Hey, everyone!, I have a serious inquiry here.  For those of you who have followed me before, you will know my opinion of 3D printed parts is NOT favorable. I think the technology will get there for us, but the stuff that's out there now, I wouldn't use on ANY of my builds. However, a certain company PM'd me, and showed me his work....his work is AMAZING!!!!!, and i'm in talks with him about building one of his kits. He asked me what i'd like in a kit, and I gave him four of my interests; 1) Lotus Excige, 2) Hennessey Venom, 3) a large scale Pagani Huayra, and 4) a Lotus Esprit GT3 V8, which he said he will look into for a limited run.  My question is; how many of you would be interested in an Esprit GT3 V8?

Here is some of his work:

[Spex84]

Those are stunning models indeed! Looks like they're mostly large-scale?

The big question is...$$$!   Looking at any of these, I wouldn't bat an eye if you told me the finished model was valued at $15k+ and the kits were $1500+. There's an absolute ton of labor in these, from the design and engineering to the construction of the kit.

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

30 minutes ago, Dann Tier said:

...For those of you who have followed me before, you will know my opinion of 3D printed parts is NOT favorable. I think the technology will get there for us, but the stuff that's out there now, I wouldn't use on ANY of my builds...

Not to be snarky, but you're well behind the curve if you really believe that.

I have seen (in person) and now have in my possession some other 3D-printed parts that exceed the quality that's EVER been obtained via injection-molded styrene.

The technology is "there" today. It's just a matter of time before it becomes widely available.

And I'm NOT one to give praise where it's undeserved...as anyone familiar with my posts will know.

There are four 1/25 parts on my bench that should satisfy the MOST DEMANDING MODELER for as long as building models is a hobby. 

Edited April 2, 2019 by Ace-Garageguy

[Dann Tier]

15 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Not to be snarky, but you're well behind the curve if you really believe that.

I have seen (in person) and now have in my possession some other 3D-printed parts that exceed the quality that's EVER been obtained via injection-molded styrene.

The technology is "there" today. It's just a matter of time before it becomes widely available.

And I'm NOT one to give praise where it's undeserved...as anyone familiar with my posts will know.

There are four 1/25 parts on my bench that should satisfy the MOST DEMANDING MODELER for as long as building models is a hobby. 

Post photos of them then....

 

[Dann Tier]

20 minutes ago, Spex84 said:

Those are stunning models indeed! Looks like they're mostly large-scale?

The big question is...$$$!   Looking at any of these, I wouldn't bat an eye if you told me the finished model was valued at $15k+ and the kits were $1500+. There's an absolute ton of labor in these, from the design and engineering to the construction of the kit.

 

Yes they are, Chris!!...I was SHOCKED!!!,  These are mostly large scale...he does a lot of 1/4 cars, but he also does ANY scale you want....he's done slot cars, etc.  He does things by the order. He said he may even do a limited run of the Esprit I mentioned to him....we'll see.

[Ace-Garageguy]

1 minute ago, Dann Tier said:

Post photos of them then....

 

I've previously posted extensive info, including video, of today's technology. There is a set of wire wheels shown in a three-part thread of mine that's well beyond anything ever done in styrene, and they eliminate the need for the tedious wire-lacing that was the only way to go previously. One member here has provided me with some samples of his parts as well, which he's also posted here on the forum. They are, in a word, spectacular, even under magnification.

[Dann Tier]

Just now, Ace-Garageguy said:

I've previously posted extensive info, including video, of today's technology. There is a set of wire wheels shown in a three-part thread of mine that's well beyond anything ever done in styrene, and they eliminate the need for the tedious wire-lacing that was the only way to go previously. One member here has provided me with some samples of his parts as well, which he's also posted here on the forum. They are, in a word, spectacular, even under magnification.

Okay, post YOUR parts here, so we can all see them, and not have to move around looking...

[Ace-Garageguy]

15 hours ago, Dann Tier said:

Okay, post YOUR parts here, so we can all see them, and not have to move around looking...

The fellas who made 'em already posted 'em. But just to save anybody from having to do their own looking...

3D-printed wire wheels. 1/25 scale, from Model Builders' Warehouse.

Thread here...

3D-printed 1/25 scale Stromberg.

Thread here...

 

Edited April 3, 2019 by Ace-Garageguy

[Dann Tier]

42 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

The fellas who made 'em already posted 'em. But just to save anybody from having to do their own looking...

3D-printed wire wheels. 1/25 scale, from Modeler's Warehouse.

Thread here...

3D-printed 1/25 scale Stromberg.

Thread here...

 

Thanks for posting!....just what I thought, there is STILL a lot of annoying texture.....and I don't even need to see it in person....doesn't even come close to the guys that I posted.

[Ace-Garageguy]

14 minutes ago, Dann Tier said:

Thanks for posting!....just what I thought, there is STILL a lot of annoying texture.....and I don't even need to see it in person....doesn't even come close to the guys that I posted.

You see "texture" on that carb? You do realize the photo is blown up maybe 50 times from the actual size, right?

Show me anything injection molded that looks that good magnified that much. Anything.

[Dann Tier]

14 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

You see "texture" on that carb? You do realize the photo is blown up maybe 50 times from the actual size, right?

Show me anything injection molded that looks that good magnified that much. Anything.

the carb is 'okay", but don't forget about those spokes.....they ALL have texture!!,  quite a few carbs, and other engine parts could actually look more realistic with the "okay" printed parts, but I STILL would rather have BETTER for my builds. There are quite a few injected plastic, kit wheels that are WAAAAAY better than your spokes there....check out Protar Ferrari 250 GTO kits, or Tamiyas Morgan, or Hasegawas MG's.....I will post my protar wheels a little later to show you.   BTW, its okay to be wrong sometimes...

[Ace-Garageguy]

2 minutes ago, Dann Tier said:

... BTW, its okay to be wrong sometimes...

Yeah, it is.

[Flat32]

There is annoying texture on the carb, but what is more annoying is the lack of crisp edges at small scales. The best available technology for resin printers under $5000 is DLP and while they can do 10 micron layers in Z axis they are more limited in XY resolution which is dependent on the projector's digital image resolution.  I want better than what I have and it will come.  Dann is right to be fussy.

[Ace-Garageguy]

I guess I'm just too blind and incompetent to see any need for better resolution.

[djflyer]

To respond to your original question - my interests lie in 24th scale (or 25th if the right subject) but YES, I would want a kit of the Esprit GT3 if it were done in 24th scale.  Based on the pictures you posted, that Healey would be another.  The list other desired subjects keeps growing but I dont think posting them here is what you were asking.

As for 3D printed parts, to date I have bought from several vendors but all through Shapeways.  They range from engine parts to bodywork.  So far I have been verify happy with the quality them - virtually all are equal to or exceed what I might have been able to get from kits (ie. plastic blob carbs)  More important to me is they allow build options where I don't have the mad skills at scratch building like you do with plastic or Randy D has in metal. 

[Flat32]

Better resolution may not be needed for most, but it is desired because it is possible and required by some.

[Dann Tier]

1 hour ago, Flat32 said:

There is annoying texture on the carb, but what is more annoying is the lack of crisp edges at small scales. The best available technology for resin printers under $5000 is DLP and while they can do 10 micron layers in Z axis they are more limited in XY resolution which is dependent on the projector's digital image resolution.  I want better than what I have and it will come.  Dann is right to be fussy.

Right, why not wait? as fast as technology moves it will get here, besides, as I admitted, finally there is an EXCEPTIONAL company out there!!!  I will spend the money for the best, because that's who I am.

[Dann Tier]

1 hour ago, djflyer said:

To respond to your original question - my interests lie in 24th scale (or 25th if the right subject) but YES, I would want a kit of the Esprit GT3 if it were done in 24th scale.  Based on the pictures you posted, that Healey would be another.  The list other desired subjects keeps growing but I dont think posting them here is what you were asking.

As for 3D printed parts, to date I have bought from several vendors but all through Shapeways.  They range from engine parts to bodywork.  So far I have been verify happy with the quality them - virtually all are equal to or exceed what I might have been able to get from kits (ie. plastic blob carbs)  More important to me is they allow build options where I don't have the mad skills at scratch building like you do with plastic or Randy D has in metal. 

I will let him know, David!, and thanks about the SB!, I do make ALOT of stuff, but i'd rather buy it already made, lol.  To me, high quality resin parts are STILL way better than the average 3D printers, until this guy PM'd me.  I love companies like Fireball Modelworks!!!, and Hobby Design, just to name a few.

[Dann Tier]

10 minutes ago, Flat32 said:

Better resolution may not be needed for most, but it is desired because it is possible and required by some.

I agree!!

[cobraman]

All I saw was a big beautiful Shelby Cobra .

[Dann Tier]

10 minutes ago, cobraman said:

All I saw was a big beautiful Shelby Cobra .

LOL, I posted that one just for you, bud!!!!!

[iamsuperdan]

My two cents...

3D parts are expensive. And I think that while the tech is here right now to get ultra-high quality, the cost of the hardware to get that quality makes things prohibitive for the majority of builders. If you just spent $5k plus on a high quality 3D printer, how would you price parts for scale models? Either sell a few at a higher cost, or sell a bazillion pieces at a lower cost? I've seen the quality pieces, and I've seen the "pretty good" pieces, and in most cases, they match or exceed kit quality. Especially when discussing AMT re-pops, which is all they seem to do now. However, for the costs involved, the quality had darn well better be high. I bought a 1/24 turbo for $15. I still think I'm dumb. $15 for two pieces that combined are smaller than an M&M. But they need no work, other than paint.

Conversely, I've bought 3D parts that are accurate, but require a lot of sanding and smoothing and finishing before I can paint. And because I deal mainly in 1/24 and 1/25, sanding these smaller parts can be tedious work. 

So is the tech there? Of course it is. Is it worth it yet? Not for me it isn't. And I'm nowhere near the builder Dann or many others here are.

 

Anyway, the quality of those kits looks stunning. I'd be curious about what the parts look like when they're fresh from the printer though. 

As for interest? Of the ones you mentioned Dann, not really. The Esprit would be most interesting to me, but my interest will fade or grow significantly depending on what kind of costs we'd be looking at. I'm guessing cost would depend on volume?

 

[Dann Tier]

8 minutes ago, iamsuperdan said:

My two cents...

3D parts are expensive. And I think that while the tech is here right now to get ultra-high quality, the cost of the hardware to get that quality makes things prohibitive for the majority of builders. If you just spent $5k plus on a high quality 3D printer, how would you price parts for scale models? Either sell a few at a higher cost, or sell a bazillion pieces at a lower cost? I've seen the quality pieces, and I've seen the "pretty good" pieces, and in most cases, they match or exceed kit quality. Especially when discussing AMT re-pops, which is all they seem to do now. However, for the costs involved, the quality had darn well better be high. I bought a 1/24 turbo for $15. I still think I'm dumb. $15 for two pieces that combined are smaller than an M&M. But they need no work, other than paint.

Conversely, I've bought 3D parts that are accurate, but require a lot of sanding and smoothing and finishing before I can paint. And because I deal mainly in 1/24 and 1/25, sanding these smaller parts can be tedious work. 

So is the tech there? Of course it is. Is it worth it yet? Not for me it isn't. And I'm nowhere near the builder Dann or many others here are.

 

Anyway, the quality of those kits looks stunning. I'd be curious about what the parts look like when they're fresh from the printer though. 

As for interest? Of the ones you mentioned Dann, not really. The Esprit would be most interesting to me, but my interest will fade or grow significantly depending on what kind of costs we'd be looking at. I'm guessing cost would depend on volume?

 

Everything you say makes sense, bud!

[peteski]

Yes, those *LARGE* scale 3D printed models are beautiful.  But I'm sure they didn't come out of the printer looking like that - I'm sure some prep was involved to produce those stunning models. Also, I would be really interested what brand/model printed is being used to print those parts.  I'm pretty sure it is not a $700 hobby printer. It is likely an industrial machine, way out of reach of reach of an average modeler. It probably costs more than your yearly salary.  And the cost of resin also needs to be considered.

But (as seen here), I have to say that the technology is already here for making 3D printed model cars.

[89AKurt]

Just to show for an example, here is a model builder who uses 3D printing, to make mostly military prototypes.  You can see the typical texture, but for these subjects it's not a big deal.  I'm guessing he makes a living doing this too.

Flickr: Gamla Model Makers