ERTL

[ranma]

Anyone know when round2 dropped the ertl name off the model kits? When they reissued the Great dane expandable trailer it now just has AMT and also say's Many unique AMT features as where the Original kit was ERTL...

[tbill]

Looking at their website, there really isn’t much mention of ertl at all...

[Rusty92]

ERTL is separate from AMT right? Back in the day. I thought they were like a joint venture of sorts. But ERTL was its own thing long before that I’m sure. So when they split, R2 didn’t buy ERTL as well. Probably have to pay to use the name on the box. 

Edited July 8, 2019 by Rusty92

[SfanGoch]

ERTL acquired AMT in 1981; then, acquired MPC in 1985. Here's a rundown of ERTL history, lifted from Wikipedia. I didn't feel like transcribing the whole thing.

Important Dates in Racing Champions/Ertl Company History^[3]

• 1945 - The Ertl Company is founded by Fred Ertl, Sr., in Dubuque, Iowa.
• 1959 - The company moves to larger facilities in Dyersville, Iowa.
• 1967 - Ertl is acquired by Victor Comptometer Corporation.
• 1971 - Ertl acquires Carter Tru-Scale.
• 1973 - Ertl begins manufacturing plastic model kits.
• 1974 - Ertl acquires Structo Stamped Steel.
• 1977 - Kidde, Inc. acquires Ertl with purchase of Victor Comptometer Corp.
• 1981 - Ertl acquires AMT model kit company.
• 1985 - Ertl acquires MPC model kits.
• 1987 - Hanson plc purchases Kidde. Ertl acquires ESCI model kit company.
• 1989 - Racing Champions is founded by Bob Dods, Boyd Meyer and Peter Chung.
• 1990 - Ertl releases the first Precision Series farm toy replica.
• 1991-92 - Racing Champions obtains NASCAR license
• 1992 - Fred Ertl, Jr. & Robert J. Ertl retire.
• 1995 - Hanson plc consolidates its U.S. companies to form U.S.I. (United States Industries).
• 1993- Ertl begins the Wing Of Texaco die cast airplane collection
• 1996 - Racing Champions introduces its Mint line of non-racing vehicles. Racing Champions Corporation is formed.
• 1997 - Racing Champions completes its initial public stock offering (RACN on NASDAQ).
• 1999 - Company produces a commercial version of the Eternity puzzle
• 1999 - Racing Champions acquires The Ertl Company.
• 2000 - Ertl acquires Britains Limited
• 2003 - Racing Champions Ertl acquired Chicago-based Learning Curve International, Inc.
• 2004 - RC2 Corporation acquired Playing Mantis assets and The First Years Inc.,
• 2008 - Tomy acquired RC2; maintains control of Ertl, Racing Champions and Johnny Lightning tooling
• 2008 - Auto World (a division of Round 2, LLC) signs licensing agreement to produce and market AMT, MPC, Polar Lights, and 24 and 18 scale diecast, and access to Racing Champions and Johnny Lightning tooling
• 2009 - Ertl celebrates 50 years in Dyersville, IA
• 2010 - Ertl celebrates its 65th Anniversary.

Since 2008, ERTL is a division of Tomy when it acquired RC2 Corp.

[Force]

Yes, Round 2 doesn't have the rights to the ERTL brand name and have never had it, and some of the tooling like the farm equipment and some other things are still ERTL, that's probably the reason to use the AMT name on the kits originally issued by ERTL wich they have in their possession.
This is nothing new and has happened all the time, back when ERTL owned the AMT and MPC brands they used AMT/ERTL on everything, Revell and Monogram merged in 1986 and the Revell and Monogram names was used on respective kits for some time, later both names was on all kits, then Monogram disappeared and only the Revell name was used, and finally they used the Monogram name on kits that originally wasn't Monogram at all.

Edited July 8, 2019 by Force

[hpiguy]

On the Autocar reissue I just built you can see where they scraped ERTL off the trees.

Makes sense since it's not the same company anymore.

[SfanGoch]

If you visit the Ertl/TOMY website, you'll notice that the only scales available are 1/16, 1/32, 1/50 ad 1/64. Nothing in 1/25. The 1/16 Peterbilt stuff is nice; although, it looks similar to Bruder Professional Series toys.

[Bob Ellis]

I miss ERTL. Now AMT creativity is gone.

[Force]

The creativity to do new kits was gone when RC2 bought AMT/ERTL in 1999, most of the good new AMT kits was done before that...time flies...thats over 20 years ago.
RC2 didn't do much new and did mostly re-issues over the time they owned the company of wich many had been out very recently, and the same goes for Round 2, they have had the rights to do AMT, MPC kits since 2008 and owns the brands since 2011 and I thought they would have done more new tooling kits by now as most of what they do are re-issues.
Don't get me wrong, I like many of the re-issues Round 2 does as they have more imagination than RC2 had and dig in the tooling bank and does things that hasn't been out on the shelves in decades...but a new kit now and then would definately not hurt.

Now with Revell sold to Germany, who knows when we get any new tooling kits of American cars...the latest new kits from them was developed before the sale...so Moebius is maybe our last hope.

Edited July 10, 2019 by Force

[Junkman]

I wouldn't be surprised if the Germans tooled up some American cars, but don't forget that the German, and in fact European, taste in American cars differs vastly from the American one.
Like with Round2, I'd expect a lot of reissues of stuff we haven't seen in a decade or three before anything is tooled up, though.

Interestingly, Heller is now also in German hands. Since Germany isn't a traditional car modelling stronghold, I assume their motivation is mainly to capitalise on that military rubbish.

[SfanGoch]

As long as German-occupied Heller reissues the 1/35 SA330 Puma, I'll be happy.

[niteowl7710]

The whole reason Revell U.S. exists is for the staff & consultants here to continue development and production of new U.S. subject matter - Direct from Ed Sexton's mouth at NNL East a few months ago.

[Force]

I hope you are right...all the old US staff was as I understand it laid off after the deal was done so they must have re-instated some of the old staff again and Ed Sexton in particular...that's good news.

[Junkman]

I'm not too sure whether I appreciate the reinstatement of people who have a proven track record of ruining my hobby for forty years.

[Tom Geiger]

22 hours ago, niteowl7710 said:

The whole reason Revell U.S. exists is for the staff & consultants here to continue development and production of new U.S. subject matter - Direct from Ed Sexton's mouth at NNL East a few months ago.

Agreed, For all the naysayers,  the company that bought all of Revell is an investment company that has a good track record for growing companies.  They own varied businesses such as electronics parts manufacturers in Germany and a paper company in Spain.  They don't slash and burn.  They make smart investments and make them grow.  This is their first venture in the USA.  They are very interested in making this successful.

I don't believe that a lot of people in this hobby understand what it takes to start a new business from the ground up.  The old company ceases to exist.  The new company needs to lease office space,  negotiate all new licensing agreements, deal with suppliers and vendors... some of which are holding serious debt from the old company.  Heck, the last email I got from Ed was from his personal account.   That's starting from scratch.  So give them a little leeway!   

On 7/10/2019 at 4:35 AM, Force said:

Round 2, they have had the rights to do AMT, MPC kits since 2008 and owns the brands since 2011 and I thought they would have done more new tooling kits by now as most of what they do are re-issues.

Again, follow the business.    Round 2 made an enormous investment in that old existing tooling.  With  attitudes in the hobby being that the tooling is "bought and paid for",  it no doubt represents a large debt and carrying cost.  Thus it needs to be worked to make that investment successful.  Last I communicated with John G.   their biggest issue was the band width to handle all the projects currently underway.   They are indeed working as hard and fast as they can.  And they are doing a great job at that.  The imagination, box art and new parts in the kits is amazing!    Give them a break!  

Edited July 13, 2019 by Tom Geiger

[Force]

As I see it we have given Round 2 a break for over 10 years now, but as I said, I don't mind re-issues as some of them haven't been out for a long time and are very sought after and everyone has to do that to earn money, but an all new kit now and then wouldn't hurt.
It has been about 20 years since we saw any new tool full detail car kits from AMT with a couple of exceptions like the new generation Camaro.

Edited July 13, 2019 by Force

[niteowl7710]

26 minutes ago, Force said:

As I see it we have given Round 2 a break for over 10 years now, but as I said, I don't mind re-issues as some of them haven't been out for a long time and are very sought after and everyone has to do that to earn money, but an all new kit now and then wouldn't hurt.
It has been about 20 years since we saw any new tool full detail car kits from AMT with a couple of exceptions like the new generation Camaro.

They've done (and are doing) several new tool Sci Fi pieces...because by and large Sci Fi builders aren't afraid to crack open their wallets.  The last Star Trek offering of significance was almost $200 if you bought the "detail-up" sets they sold with it.  Meanwhile automotive modelers here in the U.S. just went into a frothing near-riot over $7 clearance kits at Hobby Lobby.  Which customer base do you want to invest in?

[Force]

Yeah it's funny, automotive modelers complain about kit prices and then buys aftermarket stuff for a lot more than the kit costs and don't complain at all about that, try to buy a kit over here where the prices are equivalent to $40-50 for a normal AMT/MPC re-issued automotive kit and see how that feels...and then some aftermarket stuff upon that. 
But Round 2 can't do re-issues only forever as the market will be saturated sooner or later as I don't think everyone will buy one more of the same kit just because they do new boxart, change the decals and throw in tampo printed tires, they will eventually have to do something else to keep the interest up, and a new kit now and then will for sure do that if they do the right subjects.
At least I buy kits to build as I'm not a collector...and how many of the same kit do you want to have.

Edited July 13, 2019 by Force

[niteowl7710]

1 hour ago, Force said:

Yeah it's funny, automotive modelers complain about kit prices and then buys aftermarket stuff for a lot more than the kit costs and don't complain at all about that, try to buy a kit over here where the prices are equivalent to $40-50 for a normal AMT/MPC re-issued automotive kit and see how that feels...and then some aftermarket stuff upon that. 
But Round 2 can't do re-issues only forever as the market will be saturated sooner or later as I don't think everyone will buy one more of the same kit just because they do new boxart, change the decals and throw in tampo printed tires, they will eventually have to do something else to keep the interest up, and a new kit now and then will for sure do that if they do the right subjects.
At least I buy kits to build as I'm not a collector...and how many of the same kit do you want to have.

But much like Revell, Round2's customer base is the 90% (or so) of builders who pick up a kit at random and don't have a 1k kit surplus in their basement. Coke tie-ins excluded both companies have a reissue track of 7-9 years on any given kit which when you consider how a place like Hobby Lobby does retail means that any given kit that doesn't sell consistently might get less than 1 year of shelf time before it disappears for almost a decade.

Round2 manages to keep the "rabid" 10%ers in check by kicking out stuff like the Pinto, Brat, Schwin, and 67 Ford AWB kits that haven't been produced in 35-40 years. But a casual builder who's new to the hobby doesn't have five '61 Impalas, or three '34 Ford P/Us.

[Force]

Well some of those 90% casual builders will eventually come to a point where there are nothing new to find too.
As I said before, I don't mind re-issues at all but a new kit now and then can't be wrong to keep the interest up.

[SfanGoch]

3 hours ago, Force said:

Well some of those 90% casual builders will eventually come to a point where there are nothing new to find too.

To paraphrase, if I never saw it before, it's new to me. That applies to model kits, too. If a casual modeler never saw a particular kit, especially a 40+ year old reissue, it is, in fact, something new to that person.

[vamach1]

4 hours ago, SfanGoch said:

To paraphrase, if I never saw it before, it's new to me. That applies to model kits, too. If a casual modeler never saw a particular kit, especially a 40+ year old reissue, it is, in fact, something new to that person.

True - not everyone that builds is 60+ and remembers all these old kits.   I am 60 and don't.  

[hpiguy]

1 minute ago, vamach1 said:

True - not everyone that builds is 60+ and remembers all these old kits.   I am 60 and don't.  

I agree They are 'new' to a massive amount of modelers. 

I built 62+ kits last year for the channel and this year I'm on slate to build 90+ (two per week) and almost all of these reissues from Atlantis, Revell, R2 are 'new' to me and I love getting a crack at them.

[Tom Geiger]

8 hours ago, Force said:

Well some of those 90% casual builders will eventually come to a point where there are nothing new to find too.

I remember reading that the interest period of casual modelers was something like 18 months in the hobby.  So they can reissue kits every two years and they are brand new to the majority of their buyers.

As James called us the "rabid 10%ers ",  I think we actually are less than 10% .   We are the crazies who show up at Star Trek conventions dressed as Mr Spock.  The fact that I watch the model shelves in my local Hobby Lobby change over every visit,  BUT I don't know a single model person in my area is all telling.  And  most of those models die cruel deaths at the hands of amateurs! (and that's a good thing, they pay our freight!)  Just check out some of the model boards on Facebook and watch them give each other modeling tips... my favorite this week was on paint removal.  Some clown's advise was that any of our methods would melt a model car body and the ONLY way was to sand it off!   Oh yea!  

[SfanGoch]

57 minutes ago, Tom Geiger said:

... my favorite this week was on paint removal.  Some clown's advise was that any of our methods would melt a model car body and the ONLY way was to sand it off! 

 

What a bunch of ta-ra-ra-goon-de-ays! Everybody knows you gotta apply heat to soften the paint.