tim boyd Posted November 19, 2019 Posted November 19, 2019 (edited) In my recent book "Collecting Muscle Car Model Kits" (CarTech Publishing, 2018), at the end of each main chapter I listed the muscle car topics that most need a full detail 1/25th (or 1/24th) scale full detail kit. Here's an example "Missing Action" page from the book ... Now, onto the subject at hand.... Here's the list of Buick Olds Pontiac (BOP) kit candidates I suggested.... MISSING IN ACTION GTO/442/Gran Sport kits yet to appear in any 1/24th-1/25th scale kit * 1970 & 1971 GTO Judge Hardtop and Convertible (1970 with optional RA-IV engine, 1971 with the 455 HO engine) * 1971 GT-37 w/400 4-bbl * 1973 GTO or GrandAm Coupe with (for extra credit) the planned – but not produced – 455 Super Duty engine * 1964 & 1965 442 * 1968-1970 F85/Cutlass with W-31 package * 1970 Olds Rallye 350 * 1965, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1971 & 1972 Gran Sport, including 1969-1972 Stage 1 * 1967 GS-340, 1968-1970 GS-350 GTO/442/Gran Sport kits that need a new/modern kit offering * 1965, 1967, 1968, 1970, 1971, and 1972 GTO (1970 to include RA-IV engine; 1971 to include 455 HO engine) * 1968 442 Hardtop and Convertible * 1970-1971 442 Hardtop and Convertible with W-30 package And here's the list of Chevy Intermediate kit candidates.... MISSING IN ACTION Chevelle and El Camino that are yet to appear in a 1/24-1/25th scale kit: * 1967 El Camino with 396 V8 * 1970 SS 454 Convertible with LS6 454 V8 * 1970 El Camino with LS6 454 V8 * 1971-72 El Camino with LS5 454 V8 Chevelle and El Caminos that need a new/modern kit offering: * 1964 Super Sport Hardtop/Convertible * 1965 Super Sport Hardtop/Convertible with L79 327V8 * 1969 El Camino with SS 396 option * 1970 SS 454 Hardtop with LS6 454 V8 * 1971-72 SS 454 Hardtop with LS5 454 V8 Again, lists like this are at the end of all the key muscle car kit chapters (chapters 3-12 in the image below). There's also a similar list of "Missing in Action" muscle car powertrains. While they are my ideas, I have certainly noted input on these topics from posts here at the Model Car Magazine Forum and other model car message boards et al. If you are interested in seeing the other lists, check out the book at the 300 largest Barnes & Noble stores, or order your copy from several of the model car kit sale websites, some of the better hobby stores, or Amazon or CarTechBooks.com. Thanks in advance for your interest....comments welcome as you deem appropriate. Thanks...TIM Edited November 19, 2019 by tim boyd
Luc Janssens Posted November 19, 2019 Posted November 19, 2019 (edited) Tim, When tooling up an all new '70 & 71 GTO, I would include the '68 & '69 too, just to spread the investment. The following I wrote as a 250K proposal back in 2002 1) what subject would you kit, and why? 1971 Pontiac GTO, because muscle cars are still hot and the GTO is the great(est) one 2) Set your target audience, decide on skill level, parts breakdown and overall design. Skill level 2 kit, with crisply molded accurate body without any thick molded in features to avoid sink marks, separate front grille surround with bumper separate chrome grille insert (a photo etched one would be nice too:^) engine a 455 HO, chassis with H/D frame option that build's up similar to the Amt '71 Charger, same goes for the interior with custom sorts steering wheel, std. wheels in this kit would by the Honeycomb units. Also I would already tool up the body for my second version and see that the parts breakdown in the mold is organized for that sibling 3) Do you want to include optional parts? name them, and why? Judge Parts and decals, and modern wheels on nice fat tires. 4) Are there alternative versions possible from that tool first sibling that I would consider is a '68 GTO with the chrome front bumper (optional endura unit, with exposed or hidden headlamps. with drag strip accessories, to really set it apart from the old Monogram. the second would be a '70 GTO, a conv. so that it would not to be mistaken for the old Mpc unit. with top up or down options. 5) How do you want the packaging? (box art, the packaging of the parts etc..) Bagged Chrome and Clear parts, Box art a drawing of a red GTO on the edge of a drag race track and in the distance seeing (the second issue of this car) a '68 Goat just getting a green light on the race track. Besides the name GTO in big red letters and the name of the model kit company I wouldn't print anything on the box-top, so that the art work really stands out. So the sides of the box will have all the extra info like '71 Pontiac GTO, Plastic model kit age....bla bla...and pix of a buildup. For Wally World I would make another box, a gain a red GTO but parked at night time near a cafe (more a night out setting, like you see on the cover of these cheap romance books fro women you can buy at these big stores ;^) 6) Over-budget issues: Streamline the engine choice for all 3 versions, sadly by doing that the Judge version, will have to go. Edited November 19, 2019 by Luc Janssens
Snake45 Posted November 19, 2019 Posted November 19, 2019 You're right, Tim, we could use new kits of any or all of those cars. Even reissues of some older ones that HAVE been kitted (such as '70 GTO) would be most welcome. While we're waiting, some on your list can be done with a little work, a little ingenuity, some lowering of standards (in some cases), and three resources: *Aftermarket (resin) *Rebuildable/glue bomb old builds and "distressed" promos (assuming here that few of us can afford to whip out triple digits for unbuilt originals) *Affordable diecasts For example, MCW now makes a nice and reasonably priced '65 4-4-2. I believe the '64 Cutlass and '64 Chevelle are offered by at least one resincaster. At one time, JoHan '70 4-4-2s weren't uncommon, and parts to convert it to just about any '70-'72 coupe version you could imagine were available. Not sure if this is still true, but I bought off eBay an AMT '70 4-4-2 and when it came, there were extra goodies in the box indicating somebody had a Rallye 350 conversion in mind (as do I). Welly does a very acceptable (if slightly undersized at about 1/26) diecast '68 4-4-2. With a modification to the roof, their '65 GTO is a lot better looking than any reissue of AMT's. Their '71 Chevelle SS convertible isn't perfect but it's filling that slot on my shelf fairly nicely until something better comes along. And their slightly undersized (again, about 1/26) '70 GSX and '69 GTO Judge (with exposed headlights, no less!) look better on my 1/25 shelf than their 1/24 Monogram counterparts. And so forth, and so on. Improvise, Adapt, Overcome! Drive On!
highway Posted November 19, 2019 Posted November 19, 2019 A very interest topic and also looks like your book would be a very interesting read Tim, I'm going to have to hunt up a copy. I do have to agree a 70 El Camino is much needed, as is the same era Ranchero even though I have a resin conversion for the AMT Chevelle and a full resin kit of the Ranchero to fill those voids in my collection. Another in the Ford companies lineup that I would like to see in a kit form, though not really sure if it would be a popular kit or even if anyone other than me would even buy it, and even if by 76 it was really even still considered a muscle car because I know the one I owned was far from muscular, especially when a friend in high school challenged me to a drag race after school and he beat me in that race with me in the car and him ON FOOT but I'd like to see a kit of a 1976 Mercury Cougar XR-7. This is like the one I had in high school. The closest I ever found in kit form to it was the MPC/AMT 73 which was close but still needed major reworking for the 76, and this only had a 351M which I don't think has ever been offered in scale either though the modifieds were based off the Clevelands so maybe the 351C that is in the Revell 70 Mach 1 Mustang (IIRC) that is still waiting for me to pull off the shelf may be visually close enough to fill in for a 351M/400 engine. I also can't remember if the Cougar shared the platform with the Torino from those years or not, I do know it did share it with the Thunderbird and LTD, but if it did share bones with the Torino also, Revell already have most of the kit and just needs some body tooling to pull that and even the Bird and LTD off too.
sfhess Posted November 19, 2019 Posted November 19, 2019 (edited) 22 minutes ago, highway said: A very interest topic and also looks like your book would be a very interesting read Tim, I'm going to have to hunt up a copy. I do have to agree a 70 El Camino is much needed, as is the same era Ranchero even though I have a resin conversion for the AMT Chevelle and a full resin kit of the Ranchero to fill those voids in my collection. Another in the Ford companies lineup that I would like to see in a kit form, though not really sure if it would be a popular kit or even if anyone other than me would even buy it, and even if by 76 it was really even still considered a muscle car because I know the one I owned was far from muscular, especially when a friend in high school challenged me to a drag race after school and he beat me in that race with me in the car and him ON FOOT but I'd like to see a kit of a 1976 Mercury Cougar XR-7. This is like the one I had in high school. The closest I ever found in kit form to it was the MPC/AMT 73 which was close but still needed major reworking for the 76, and this only had a 351M which I don't think has ever been offered in scale either though the modifieds were based off the Clevelands so maybe the 351C that is in the Revell 70 Mach 1 Mustang (IIRC) that is still waiting for me to pull off the shelf may be visually close enough to fill in for a 351M/400 engine. I also can't remember if the Cougar shared the platform with the Torino from those years or not, I do know it did share it with the Thunderbird and LTD, but if it did share bones with the Torino also, Revell already have most of the kit and just needs some body tooling to pull that and even the Bird and LTD off too. 76 Cougar was based on the Montego, which, like the 72-up Torino, had a separate frame and coil-spring rear suspension. The 73 Cougar was Mustang-based so it was a unit body with rear leaf springs. Along this line, I would really like to see a 72 Montego GT kit. Edited November 19, 2019 by sfhess
tim boyd Posted November 19, 2019 Author Posted November 19, 2019 36 minutes ago, sfhess said: Along this line, I would really like to see a 72 Montego GT kit. Scott....Me too....and I believe I included it in the "missing in action" chapter on Ford and Mercury intermediates. Just looked it up....yep....I spec'd it as a GT Fastback with the special Cyclone Performance Package and the 351 Cobra Jet Cleveland V8. Preferably in the solid Bright Red they had that year! TIM
tbill Posted November 19, 2019 Posted November 19, 2019 Luckily, some of the MIA vehicles can be had with a little kit bashing, but it would be nice to have kits of a lot of those mentioned.
Dodge Driver Posted November 28, 2019 Posted November 28, 2019 Tim, does this car fall within the spirit of your list? This is the look everyone copied for their own GM A bodies back in the day. I would very much enjoy having a styrene kit of this Chevelle.
tim boyd Posted November 28, 2019 Author Posted November 28, 2019 26 minutes ago, Dodge Driver said: Tim, does this car fall within the spirit of your list? This is the look everyone copied for their own GM A bodies back in the day. I would very much enjoy having a styrene kit of this Chevelle. Frank....good question. I didn't list the '73 Chevelle SS454 because I have always thought that this particular GM A-body was poorly designed and executed, and because it sold so poorly. Sadly, this car was designed in the GM studios before the 5mph bumper laws were passed, and if it had been brought to market with the original design intent it would have sold very well. Some companies adapted to the new bumper laws well (all Mopar two doors, Olds and Buick A-bodies), others were a fail like the Chevelle, the non-Grand Am LeMans and GTO, and most certainly the Torino and Montego. But beyond my own personal views, yes a car like this would (and probably should have been) included in the list. I could have (and again, probably should have) listed the '73 Olds 442 and Cutlass Supreme w/455 4 bbl, and the '73 Buick Gran Sport in my list (I think I did reference these two in the text of the chapter). BTW I believe that Missing Link offers a '73 Chevelle in resin.... Best Regards and thanks for the question...>TIM
Dodge Driver Posted November 28, 2019 Posted November 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, tim boyd said: Frank....good question. I didn't list the '73 Chevelle SS454 because I have always thought that this particular GM A-body was poorly designed and executed, and because it sold so poorly. Sadly, this car was designed in the GM studios before the 5mph bumper laws were passed, and if it had been brought to market with the original design intent it would have sold very well. Some companies adapted to the new bumper laws well (all Mopar two doors, Olds and Buick A-bodies), others were a fail like the Chevelle, the non-Grand Am LeMans and GTO, and most certainly the Torino and Montego. But beyond my own personal views, yes a car like this would (and probably should have been) included in the list. I could have (and again, probably should have) listed the '73 Olds 442 and Cutlass Supreme w/455 4 bbl, and the '73 Buick Gran Sport in my list (I think I did reference these two in the text of the chapter). BTW I believe that Missing Link offers a '73 Chevelle in resin.... Best Regards and thanks for the question...>TIM Tim, thanks for you thoughts and the pertinent info. My first car was a '75 Century, giving me a strong bias toward '73 to '77 GM A Bodies. I recently saw a Missing Link Chevelle for sale on Facebook, I think. Asking price was $499.00.? I hope Kevin can cast up a new batch soon, if possible.
tim boyd Posted November 28, 2019 Author Posted November 28, 2019 26 minutes ago, Dodge Driver said: Tim, thanks for you thoughts and the pertinent info. My first car was a '75 Century, giving me a strong bias toward '73 to '77 GM A Bodies. I recently saw a Missing Link Chevelle for sale on Facebook, I think. Asking price was $499.00.? I hope Kevin can cast up a new batch soon, if possible. Yow!!!! Thatsa ton of money! I was always partial to the '73 Cutlass myself. When I was ready for my first new car, I spec'd out both a '73 Cutlass S 455 4bbl and a '73 Cutlass Supreme 455 4bbl at the Olds dealer before I got real (way too much money) and ended up with a '73 Duster 340....but I still think that year Cutlass was a really good design. I've had two Jo-Han '73 Cutlass S promos sitting on the shelf for years....was about ready to start a kitbash with the ' Revell '72 Cutlass 455 engine and the Revell '77 Monte Carlo chassis until I realized that the Cutlass promo interior was a generic treatment rather than the specific Cutlass S swivel seat sew pattern..... Best....TIM
MrObsessive Posted November 28, 2019 Posted November 28, 2019 While not exactly considered a muscle car today, original plans were to make this one with the High-Perf version which got nixed at the 11th hour. Still, I'd LOVE to have a GOOD glue kit of the 1973 Grand Am! Of all the new for 1973 A Body designs, IMO I think the Pontiac looked the best with the Olds coming in a close second for me. While the Chevelles were not bad, like you mentioned Tim, those bumpers killed it for me. Chevy did a better job with that car with the 1975-'76 Laguna S3. That's another one that I'd like to see done instead of the NASCAR which needs a ton of work to make stock among other things.
Dodge Driver Posted November 28, 2019 Posted November 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, MrObsessive said: While not exactly considered a muscle car today, original plans were to make this one with the High-Perf version which got nixed at the 11th hour. Still, I'd LOVE to have a GOOD glue kit of the 1973 Grand Am! Of all the new for 1973 A Body designs, IMO I think the Pontiac looked the best with the Olds coming in a close second for me. While the Chevelles were not bad, like you mentioned Tim, those bumpers killed it for me. Chevy did a better job with that car with the 1975-'76 Laguna S3. That's another one that I'd like to see done instead of the NASCAR which needs a ton of work to make stock among other things. Bill, I'm with you a hundred percent on both the Grand Am car and kit. The example in the photo is such a cool looking car. Imagine a Grand Am with a full performance package and a 455 under the hood! If only...
MrObsessive Posted November 28, 2019 Posted November 28, 2019 Frank, I have to wonder what prompted the brass at GM to kill the 455 SD version of this car. I suspect it was the looming ever higher insurance rates that was hurting other performance cars too. They would not have seen this coming, but the oil embargo which hit late in '73 all but doomed muscle cars for a period of time and didn't help matters. IIRC, Bill Mitchell was the main force behind the design of the A bodies. I thought I read once when he was interviewed in one of the mags............that the reason the cars looked the way they did (on the drawing board as early as '69), was so that they could take the big block engines with ease and other performance goodies. But like you said.........what might have been. To add insult to injury, when they brought the name back in the late '80's and stuck it on a (IMO) bland, uninspiring FWD sedan, that to me was the beginning of the end for Pontiac.
Dodge Driver Posted November 28, 2019 Posted November 28, 2019 30 minutes ago, tim boyd said: Yow!!!! Thatsa ton of money! I was always partial to the '73 Cutlass myself. When I was ready for my first new car, I spec'd out both a '73 Cutlass S 455 4bbl and a '73 Cutlass Supreme 455 4bbl at the Olds dealer before I got real (way too much money) and ended up with a '73 Duster 340....but I still think that year Cutlass was a really good design. I've had two Jo-Han '73 Cutlass S promos sitting on the shelf for years....was about ready to start a kitbash with the ' Revell '72 Cutlass 455 engine and the Revell '77 Monte Carlo chassis until I realized that the Cutlass promo interior was a generic treatment rather than the specific Cutlass S swivel seat sew pattern..... Best....TIM Ah, I didn't know that about the Jo-Han Cutlass interior. I have a complete '75 promo that was planned as a GM-Shoulda 442. perhaps a shift to a light restomod build is in order. As a die hard Mopar guy, I can't fault you at all for choosing the Duster over the Olds ?
Snake45 Posted November 28, 2019 Posted November 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Dodge Driver said: Tim, does this car fall within the spirit of your list? This is the look everyone copied for their own GM A bodies back in the day. I would very much enjoy having a styrene kit of this Chevelle. Oh that thing is just hella cool! Last year I bought a '7? Chevelle NASCAR with the plan of converting it to a street bomber. Couple months ago I scored a clean JoHan Cutlass promo, which I'll use to sili-clone the headlight buckets. Biggest problem with the Chevelle body will be the front wheel openings. Do I have the skill to build up the stock shape, or do I go with the story line that someone actually took a retired NASCAR and put it on the street as a freak? Just had an idea. I've bought several copies of AMT's '72 Nova just for parts. I wonder if the front wheel openings could be cut from those fenders and grafted onto the Chevelle body? Hmmmmmm......
Dodge Driver Posted November 28, 2019 Posted November 28, 2019 16 minutes ago, Snake45 said: Oh that thing is just hella cool! Last year I bought a '7? Chevelle NASCAR with the plan of converting it to a street bomber. Couple months ago I scored a clean JoHan Cutlass promo, which I'll use to sili-clone the headlight buckets. Biggest problem with the Chevelle body will be the front wheel openings. Do I have the skill to build up the stock shape, or do I go with the story line that someone actually took a retired NASCAR and put it on the street as a freak? Just had an idea. I've bought several copies of AMT's '72 Nova just for parts. I wonder if the front wheel openings could be cut from those fenders and grafted onto the Chevelle body? Hmmmmmm...... I like this idea. Those resin bodies are reasonably priced, making them ideal bases for kitbash projects. I may break out the black Sharpie and the Dremel just to see what happens.
the other Mike S. Posted November 28, 2019 Posted November 28, 2019 (edited) I would've liked to have seen Johan continue their '75 Cutlass promo tool into the '76-'77 body style with the slant nose 442 front end and the smoother body sides. They were already getting lazy with their half-hearted rendition of the '75 with the '74 based front grill/header. I'm surprised Oldsmobile allowed them to get away with that. I guess it was close enough for GM at the time. lol! For the A-body Chevelle, I'd love to see a stock Laguna S-3 with the '75-'76 shovel nose. Even the flat nose '73-'74 would be great to have. The Grand Am would be nice especially with the optional honeycomb wheels. The '73 Century had some nice sweeping body lines. They could've tooled up a "Kojak" car since that show was very popular at that time. However, that would have been a 4 door which some may not have preferred. I would've loved it though. The '70's 4 door A-body looked very european to me. I had the Corgi diecast of the Kojak car when I was a kid. The '73-77 El Camino is another one that would've been nice to have as well. They could've used the same chassis tooled up for the 4 door Buick Century "Kojak" car since the wheelbases were the same at 116". Considering how popular those cars (A-body) were back in the day, it's surprising that MPC couldn't find a way to tool up some of these models even without lucrative promo contract. Except for the Chevelle Laguna race car which could not be built stock, the choices were zero to none except for the Johan Cutlass snap kit. Even though it was basically an unassembled promo, I'm glad Johan was able to make the '73-'75 Cutlass happen. It seems the loss of promo contracts from the auto companies in the '70's heavily affected the development of new tools. If it wasn't based off a promo tool, it likely would not be made. What a shame! Edited November 28, 2019 by the other Mike S.
espo Posted November 28, 2019 Posted November 28, 2019 On 11/19/2019 at 5:31 PM, tbill said: Luckily, some of the MIA vehicles can be had with a little kit bashing, but it would be nice to have kits of a lot of those mentioned. Great looking conversion. Please notice the reproduction of my personal '67 El Camino in the picture above my name above. I used the Revell '66 El Camino and their '67 Chevelle SS kit to create it.
the other Mike S. Posted November 28, 2019 Posted November 28, 2019 5 hours ago, espo said: Great looking conversion. Please notice the reproduction of my personal '67 El Camino in the picture above my name above. I used the Revell '66 El Camino and their '67 Chevelle SS kit to create it. That's nice work!
tbill Posted November 29, 2019 Posted November 29, 2019 19 hours ago, espo said: Great looking conversion. Please notice the reproduction of my personal '67 El Camino in the picture above my name above. I used the Revell '66 El Camino and their '67 Chevelle SS kit to create it. Thanks, I used the same kits to build that one. Yours looks great as well.
the other Mike S. Posted November 29, 2019 Posted November 29, 2019 (edited) On 11/28/2019 at 6:32 AM, MrObsessive said: Edited November 29, 2019 by the other Mike S.
the other Mike S. Posted November 29, 2019 Posted November 29, 2019 (edited) On 11/28/2019 at 6:32 AM, MrObsessive said: Frank, I have to wonder what prompted the brass at GM to kill the 455 SD version of this car. I suspect it was the looming ever higher insurance rates that was hurting other performance cars too. They would not have seen this coming, but the oil embargo which hit late in '73 all but doomed muscle cars for a period of time and didn't help matters. IIRC, Bill Mitchell was the main force behind the design of the A bodies. I thought I read once when he was interviewed in one of the mags............that the reason the cars looked the way they did (on the drawing board as early as '69), was so that they could take the big block engines with ease and other performance goodies. But like you said.........what might have been. To add insult to injury, when they brought the name back in the late '80's and stuck it on a (IMO) bland, uninspiring FWD sedan, that to me was the beginning of the end for Pontiac. The 455 was a last ditch effort from Pontiac to extract the most performance out of their muscle cars in an era of low compression and ever increasing emissions. They knew this was coming so they punched out the displacement to 455 cid and created the 455 H.O. as standard equipment for the Trans Am in '71. The 455 SD was the pinnacle swan song made in '73-'74 only. Performance may been falling off like a cliff, but handling became center stage for the A-body in '73. I remember reading magazine articles that raved about how well these cars handled with the optional suspension package. The models that impressed me the most were the 4 door sedans though. Compared to their predecessors, the '73-'77 models looked very modern and almost european-like IMO. When the second wave of downsizing came about in '78, the new smaller but awkward looking models made the old '73-'77 look even better. I actually liked the N-body in the '80's, particularly the early FWD 2 door notchback coupes. The Olds Calais 442 was my personal favorite. They kind of reminded me of a minature G-body at the time. I wish MPC made models of them, but that probabaly would've required a promo contract from GM. Even though, in scale, they would be pretty small like a Corvette at about 7" (175"), it still would've been nice to have them. From what I recall, the 1:1 scale version was quite popular when they were first introduced. Edited November 29, 2019 by the other Mike S.
Snake45 Posted November 30, 2019 Posted November 30, 2019 37 minutes ago, pack rat said: I just want to complete this set... I was going to suggest the Welly '70 GSX, and then I realized all three of these are '68s, not just '68-'72 A-bodies. Sorry, I can't help you.
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