Spring Surprise from Round 2....AMT 1988 Mustang GT (revised reissue of old MPC tool)

[tim boyd]

Round 2 has just surprised me (you too?) with a new kit based on the old MPC 1979-1988 Fox Mustang tool. Fresh box art and an all-new decal sheet are the main revisions, but what I had long ago forgotten was just what a comprehensive building experience was inside this box.

Looking at the instructions (also copied page by page at the link below), the kit's design and construction reminds me of the MPC 1982-84 Supra, one of their best kits ever in my opinion. When I learned of this reissue, my immediate thoughts were that this body combined with the guts of the Revell 1990 Mustang LX kit would result in a cool model, but now I'm thinking that degree of kitbashing is largely unnecessary.

Check out the photos at this link along with the captions provided with each image. Thanks for looking, and good luck to those of you who choose to buy and assemble this new kit! TIM

(Kit sample sent to me by Round 2 at their option, I did not request this kit sample nor did I make any promise about posting coverage of the kit and/or making any favorable comments).

Edited May 15, 2020 by tim boyd

[Rob Hall]

Built a few of the MPC '87-88 kits back in the day (incl one to match my 1:1 '87 GT).  The main things I didn't like about it are the chrome headlights, molded in taillights and automatic transmission... and the front end slope looks to me a bit steeper than the 1:1.  It's good to see this one back out, though. 

Edited May 15, 2020 by Rob Hall

[Luc Janssens]

1 hour ago, Rob Hall said:

Built a few of the MPC '87-88 kits back in the day (incl one to match my 1:1 '87 GT).  The main things I didn't like about it are the chrome headlights, molded in taillights and automatic transmission... and the front end slope looks to me a bit steeper than the 1:1.  It's good to see this one back out, though. 

at least the chrome is better then back in the day.

[mk11]

Having this one back opens up some potential kitbashing and backdating possibilities for the resin industry. 

A couple of comparison picks...

with '84 mpc body

 

 

and the, um, 'horse with no name' body                                                                                                                                                                                                                         

 

For one thing, the '83/'84 fascia could be modified to the '85/'86 look for swapping onto this body, or even the revell body, along with other appropriate detail parts.

Edited May 16, 2020 by mk11

[Luc Janssens]

21 hours ago, tim boyd said:

 

Round 2 has just surprised me (you too?) with a new kit based on the old MPC 1979-1988 Fox Mustang tool. Fresh box art and an all-new decal sheet are the main revisions, but what I had long ago forgotten was just what a comprehensive building experience was inside this box.

Looking at the instructions (also copied page by page at the link below), the kit's design and construction reminds me of the MPC 1982-84 Supra, one of their best kits ever in my opinion. When I learned of this reissue, my immediate thoughts were that this body combined with the guts of the Revell 1990 Mustang LX kit would result in a cool model, but now I'm thinking that degree of kitbashing is largely unnecessary.

Check out the photos at this link along with the captions provided with each image. Thanks for looking, and good luck to those of you who choose to buy and assemble this new kit! TIM

(Kit sample sent to me by Round 2 at their option, I did not request this kit sample nor did I make any promise about posting coverage of the kit and/or making any favorable comments).

Dunno how popular this generation Mustang is,  but if there's more then enough interest and adequate funding can be secured, tooling up the whole gen ('79-'93) could make sense.
I would appoint Tim (there's no vote on this Tim  because of your track record at FoMoCo and knows the defintion of a plastic model kit) to be head of research for such a project, finding out what will be common between them and what unique, to make a logic parts and tool design.

Maybe one can start by buying all the Mpc annuals comparing the parts, what's to like, what not....

 

Ah it's nice to dream...

Luc

 

Ps: Still strange though that Revell didn't include a GT hatch sibling when designing the LX tool...

Edited May 16, 2020 by Luc Janssens

[carrucha]

Looks like a nice kit.  I might have to pick one up.  Thanks for posting the pics.

[Jon Cole]

Chrome headlights? Still?   *~groan~*

[Plowboy]

15 hours ago, Jon Cole said:

Chrome headlights? Still?   *~groan~*

My immediate thought also. But, then I thought it will make a good kitbash with the lousy Revell LX coupe. Like an LX hatchback. 

[1972coronet]

16 hours ago, Jon Cole said:

Chrome headlights? Still?   *~groan~*

Those were "unacceptable" when this kit was new ( 1987 annual ; modified-issue ; new-for-1987 "facelift" ) , and make even less sense today . 

Now , how about those nearly-impossible-to-paint tail lamp lenses ? 

[tim boyd]

1 hour ago, 1972coronet said:

Those were "unacceptable" when this kit was new ( 1987 annual ; modified-issue ; new-for-1987 "facelift" ) , and make even less sense today . 

Now , how about those nearly-impossible-to-paint tail lamp lenses ? 

Thanks Jon,...I have updated the kit commentary at my Fotki album to point out the tailamp issues.  Jon, Roger, and others - I had already mentioned the plated headlamp lenses as a shortfall vs. contemporary kit expectations. 

Thanks all for  your comments....TIM  

[tim boyd]

On 5/16/2020 at 7:39 AM, Luc Janssens said:

Dunno how popular this generation Mustang is,  but if there's more then enough interest and adequate funding can be secured, tooling up the whole gen ('79-'93) could make sense.
I would appoint Tim (there's no vote on this Tim  because of your track record at FoMoCo and knows the defintion of a plastic model kit) to be head of research for such a project, finding out what will be common between them and what unique, to make a logic parts and tool design.

Maybe one can start by buying all the Mpc annuals comparing the parts, what's to like, what not....

 

Ah it's nice to dream...

Luc

 

Ps: Still strange though that Revell didn't include a GT hatch sibling when designing the LX tool...

Luc...the Fox generation of Mustangs, when equipped with the 5.0L OHV V-8, is considered by many here in the states as the "Modern Day 1955 Chevy" due to its affordability, diminutive size, comparatively light weight and simplified construction, and the ability to achieve noteworthy performance increases with relatively affordable expenditures for aftermarket parts.  

Still, between the Round 2/MPC kit and the "Kit that must not be mentioned...." (err....Revell LX 5,0), what we have is what we get.  I personally don't see a business opportunity for a new, start from scratch kit range based on the this generation fo Mustang. 

Now as to the current generation S550 Mustang, which has been the world's best selling Sports Car for the last five years running, the lack of a complete full detail showroom stock kit of this Mustang carline is beyond any reasonable explanation - it is a great business opportunity for one of the world's kitmakers - but only if it includes a fully realized engine and engine compartment as part of the kit contents.  I have talked to the major domestic kitmakers about this omission, and without divulging confidential information, due to an unfortunate set of circumstances I sort of understand why this occurred, even if I strongly disagree with the result.   I don't have direct contacts with the Asian and European kitmakers, but if any of you do, i would only emphasize (again) the crucial importance of a complete and definitive treatment of the underhood area - any shortcuts here would largely tank such a kit for many (not all, but many) who would consider purchasing such a kit.  

Plans for the next upcoming generation of Mustangs were not defined when I retired from Ford so I don't know the product cadence or timing for the world of future Mustangs.  Some media report a 2022/2023 time frame for such a product, but it is not known whether such information comes from reliable sources. as Ford does not publicly reveal future product plans.   If and when the next generation of Mustang appears, one hopes that one or more of the model companies develops plan for a series of full detail kits of that product range. 

As for my personal role in researching and defining a parts and tool design for such a kit, Luc, no actions planned here, I am retired these days and plan to stay that way!!!!   Cheers....TIM  

  

[Luc Janssens]

7 hours ago, tim boyd said:

Luc...the Fox generation of Mustangs, when equipped with the 5.0L OHV V-8, is considered by many here in the states as the "Modern Day 1955 Chevy" due to its affordability, diminutive size, comparatively light weight and simplified construction, and the ability to achieve noteworthy performance increases with relatively affordable expenditures for aftermarket parts.  

Still, between the Round 2/MPC kit and the "Kit that must not be mentioned...." (err....Revell LX 5,0), what we have is what we get.  I personally don't see a business opportunity for a new, start from scratch kit range based on the this generation fo Mustang. 

Now as to the current generation S550 Mustang, which has been the world's best selling Sports Car for the last five years running, the lack of a complete full detail showroom stock kit of this Mustang carline is beyond any reasonable explanation - it is a great business opportunity for one of the world's kitmakers - but only if it includes a fully realized engine and engine compartment as part of the kit contents.  I have talked to the major domestic kitmakers about this omission, and without divulging confidential information, due to an unfortunate set of circumstances I sort of understand why this occurred, even if I strongly disagree with the result.   I don't have direct contacts with the Asian and European kitmakers, but if any of you do, i would only emphasize (again) the crucial importance of a complete and definitive treatment of the underhood area - any shortcuts here would largely tank such a kit for many (not all, but many) who would consider purchasing such a kit.  

Plans for the next upcoming generation of Mustangs were not defined when I retired from Ford so I don't know the product cadence or timing for the world of future Mustangs.  Some media report a 2022/2023 time frame for such a product, but it is not known whether such information comes from reliable sources. as Ford does not publicly reveal future product plans.   If and when the next generation of Mustang appears, one hopes that one or more of the model companies develops plan for a series of full detail kits of that product range. 

As for my personal role in researching and defining a parts and tool design for such a kit, Luc, no actions planned here, I am retired these days and plan to stay that way!!!!   Cheers....TIM  

  

Tim as I wrote, nice to dream, and do enjoy your retirement, I'm still 15 years short of mine.

About the Fox Mustangs being the modern day 55 Chevy, interesting but also sad that the Round two didn't see ROI on improving this kit.

The current Mustang, yeah....per capita I think Belgium consumes the bulk of output, might be the best selling US car in decades here.

[mk11]

On ‎5‎/‎15‎/‎2020 at 7:59 AM, Rob Hall said:

...the front end slope looks to me a bit steeper than the 1:1.  It's good to see this one back out, though. 

Measured a friend's '82 last night and it appears amt did get it very close. From the side molding extrusion on the fender side to the top is 9"(.36) on the front and 15"(.6) on the back. The lx coupe fender is too high in the front and low in the rear.

[niteowl7710]

Pretty sure I built this as a 10/11 year old in the MPC boxing that Tim shows in that last photograph.

As for the headlights, the car itself has no buckets, just a flat place to put the chrome parts.  You'd not only have to tool up new clear parts (easy enough), but then either tool up headlight buckets - and expect modelers to hack their model apart to fit them (more expensive, and off-putting for the non 1% builders who are the main consumer). Or lastly completely re-tool the front core piece of the tool, and the hot garbage fire of delays related to the 1970 Camaro are ENTIRELY about that very concept because it turns out if you measure out the area and parts in 2020, they're mostly likely not going to at all fit the tooling that was done in 1987.  Round2 found out that the '70 Camaro isn't even geometrically "square" from one side to another when they started fiddling around with the new front core piece to make the full bumper version.  Which is probably why the Vegas are getting entirely new bodies at this point.

Edited May 18, 2020 by niteowl7710

[Rob Hall]

3 hours ago, mk11 said:

Measured a friend's '82 last night and it appears amt did get it very close. From the side molding extrusion on the fender side to the top is 9"(.36) on the front and 15"(.6) on the back. The lx coupe fender is too high in the front and low in the rear.

I didn’t mean the fenders,  I’m talking about the angle of the headlights and front of the hood when viewed in profile.  The MPC body seems to slope back more in profile than the Monogram GT kits or the 1:1..

The ‘87-92 nose is more vertical than the ‘79-86. 

Edited May 18, 2020 by Rob Hall

[Oldcarfan27]

19 hours ago, 1972coronet said:

Now , how about those nearly-impossible-to-paint tail lamp lenses ? 

Well actually, given the design of the 1:1 taillights, even if they were red-clear plastic they'd still be quite a feat to paint. How would you mask off all of those little holes, either way?

I personally think MPCs way of doing it would be easier. Paint the car first and then flow some thinned red acrylic paint into the areas. Wipe off excess and done!

What I find upsetting on the kit is that over the years MPC softened the styling crease along the side (just under the side windows) to just a rounded off blur. The '79 annual has it perfectly, by '87 it's gone altogether. 

That and the 16" wheels look like 14's. But that's just me.

[Rob Hall]

10 minutes ago, Oldcarfan27 said:

 

That and the 16" wheels look like 14's. But that's just me.

The stock GT wheels for '87-90 are 15"...

[Luc Janssens]

8 hours ago, niteowl7710 said:

Pretty sure I built this as a 10/11 year old in the MPC boxing that Tim shows in that last photograph.

As for the headlights, the car itself has no buckets, just a flat place to put the chrome parts.  You'd not only have to tool up new clear parts (easy enough), but then either tool up headlight buckets - and expect modelers to hack their model apart to fit them (more expensive, and off-putting for the non 1% builders who are the main consumer). Or lastly completely re-tool the front core piece of the tool, and the hot garbage fire of delays related to the 1970 Camaro are ENTIRELY about that very concept because it turns out if you measure out the area and parts in 2020, they're mostly likely not going to at all fit the tooling that was done in 1987.  Round2 found out that the '70 Camaro isn't even geometrically "square" from one side to another when they started fiddling around with the new front core piece to make the full bumper version.  Which is probably why the Vegas are getting entirely new bodies at this point.

Interesting to learn about the Camaro misshap, but without 3D files and the original tooling models gone, it's indeed not as easy as it sounds, to perform mods, also since the breakdown of the body tooling-wise show that this version was never even taken into consideration, otherwise the front-upper would've been tooled as part of the front clip from day one.

For the Mustang it would be much easier to do the front clip as a separate part, (per OEM ) with chrome headlamp buckets and clear lenses, making the tail-lamps separate is no brain surgery ether , but even though this car is a (and I quote Tim) "Modern Day 1955 Chevy"  it looks like Round-2 doesn't see any ROI in upgrading the tool.

Maybe a trauma from seeing all those Camaro, Firebird, Corvette, Viper and yes Mustang kits in sale bins at Toy Liquidators, back in the day

 

 

 

[niteowl7710]

On 5/18/2020 at 11:35 AM, Luc Janssens said:

Interesting to learn about the Camaro misshap, but without 3D files and the original tooling models gone, it's indeed not as easy as it sounds, to perform mods, also since the breakdown of the body tooling-wise show that this version was never even taken into consideration, otherwise the front-upper would've been tooled as part of the front clip from day one.

For the Mustang it would be much easier to do the front clip as a separate part, (per OEM ) with chrome headlamp buckets and clear lenses, making the tail-lamps separate is no brain surgery ether , but even though this car is a (and I quote Tim) "Modern Day 1955 Chevy"  it looks like Round-2 doesn't see any ROI in upgrading the tool.

Maybe a trauma from seeing all those Camaro, Firebird, Corvette, Viper and yes Mustang kits in sale bins at Toy Liquidators, back in the day

Well the '87 kit was the "parking" of the annual Fox body kit at MPC.  MPC would of course be subsequently purchased by AMT the next year, and this kit - magically aging a year into a 1988 - was released  there as part of the Millennium series in 2000, and a Wally World checkerboard box in 2004.  So given there are 12 & 16 year reissue gaps, I'm guessing it's not exactly blowing the doors off the warehouse sales wise at any part of it's history.  Once this kit "died" all of the Fox body kits have come from Monogram and then unspeakable one from Revell.  AMT didn't do another Mustang annual until the SN kits in '94-'97, which has already netted us the '97 reissue back in 2014.

Given that the '63 Impala is sort of the one example where Round2 has gone in and legitimately "fixed" a kit - adding parts that it was missing, or improve it (as opposed to just restoring missing customizing parts), it's not really any surprise that if 99% of the tooling catalog isn't worth of updates, this thing certainly isn't either.  While I agree your point on how to engineer the front clip is completely on spot, that wasn't how they did it 33 years ago, and now in addition to re-tooling the front core piece, depending on where the tooling splits - aka the seam lines that run across the front (and back) of the kit - you might need to re-tool the side core pieces too to make that possible.  I don't foresee a world were throwing $30k+ at an old annual to replace the headlight design is in any way feasible.

Edited May 20, 2020 by niteowl7710

[Chuck Kourouklis]

Just in case anyone needs a refresher - I think Casey might recall - that whole "Kit That Must Not Be Named" thing was less about the kit itself and more about certain forum denizens who got a little put out by constant references to the i r r e f u t a b l e example of a lesser moment from Revell that it was.  In truth, it was never even sporting to pick on such a forlorn effort.  Still, it is clearly better in certain areas where this old MPC tooling is weak, just as long as you know a bash will entail some serious surgery.

As for the Mustang GT4, um, it appears to be selling just fine, even with a fair number of domestic buyers.  Anecdotally, anyway - got a number of acquaintances and pals snapping multiples up like Lays chips, me included.  It's had an order stop at one pusher across the Pacific and a number three sales ranking at another.

Of course, you have the core of an engine right there in that kit.  You can also look back to where Tamiya started with a curbside and then grew an entire engine out of a molded-in oil pan for the next release, as with their FD RX-7 and GET THIS - the last Mustang they took a swing at, horrid as that turned out.

Is it likely, eh, I dunno. I'd personally want to pore around the strut towers and such to gauge the probability, and I'm still waiting on mine.  But stranger things, and all...

Do I still sympathize deeply with a demand for an engine?  You bet. I'd just propose maybe Revell's Boss 2 from 2013 as a better kit to leverage that point with, say, than something this hoary from MPC.

Though I do remember suggesting a reissue of this to Round2 to coincide with Revell's then-new kit.  BEFORE the latter was released, of course.

Good times. ?

[niteowl7710]

9 hours ago, Chuck Kourouklis said:

As for the Mustang GT4, um, it appears to be selling just fine, even with a fair number of domestic buyers.  Anecdotally, anyway - got a number of acquaintances and pals snapping multiples up like Lays chips, me included.  It's had an order stop at one pusher across the Pacific and a number three sales ranking at another.

That #3 sales ranking is based on Pre-Orders no less, since the kit won't be released in Japan until mid-June.  Over here the demand for kit was so great Tamiya doesn't have any to sell in their own online store, and one of the major Midwestern distributors who sells on eBay blew through their allotment of 100 kits in a little over a week.

[randyc]

This kit (MPC Mustang) might be an example of Round 2 lowing the dust and rust off of existing tooling.  If you read around on here, there are a lot of folks asking Round2 to do just this.  So they do it.  And now, many folks are jumping on the kit for not being up to 2020 expectations.  How can Round2 possibly win?  I would suppose, if this kit sells a lot, then they might consider retooling?  I doubt it.  But, they are working on some of the older kits (camaro, 63 Imp mentioned in this thread).  So there is a kit from the archives that we as modelers can buy or not.  They are giving us stuff, just maybe not like we want it.  

I did look at the review photos Tim has on his Fotki.   I have built several Mustangs from Revellogram.  I'm not that much of a Mustang guy so will pass on this one just because of the headlights.   I gave away and sold a lot of Mustangs over the years.  And don't really need another one in my collection, especially this generation, with the headlights in that setup.  And I will not be modifying anything. 

Yes these cars were everywhere back in the day.   I can grasp the 55 Chevy analogy.   I do hope ROund2 sells enough to find something else that we haven't seen in a while.

 

 

 

[Luc Janssens]

1 hour ago, randyc said:

This kit (MPC Mustang) might be an example of Round 2 lowing the dust and rust off of existing tooling.  If you read around on here, there are a lot of folks asking Round2 to do just this.  So they do it.  And now, many folks are jumping on the kit for not being up to 2020 expectations.  How can Round2 possibly win?  I would suppose, if this kit sells a lot, then they might consider retooling?  I doubt it.  But, they are working on some of the older kits (camaro, 63 Imp mentioned in this thread).  So there is a kit from the archives that we as modelers can buy or not.  They are giving us stuff, just maybe not like we want it.  

I did look at the review photos Tim has on his Fotki.   I have built several Mustangs from Revellogram.  I'm not that much of a Mustang guy so will pass on this one just because of the headlights.   I gave away and sold a lot of Mustangs over the years.  And don't really need another one in my collection, especially this generation, with the headlights in that setup.  And I will not be modifying anything. 

Yes these cars were everywhere back in the day.   I can grasp the 55 Chevy analogy.   I do hope ROund2 sells enough to find something else that we haven't seen in a while.

 

 

 

It didn't even met '88 expectations, but yes indeed Round2 prime target are the nostalgia seekers, therefore they even retool long lost odd custom stuff, most of the aged impulse buyers used for building their kit  back in the day, when they were still in their single digits or fresh into the double,  so guess in a few decades these nostalgia revival builds and partly builds will show on ebay as part of estate sales

 

Edited May 20, 2020 by Luc Janssens

[tim boyd]

12 hours ago, niteowl7710 said:

That #3 sales ranking is based on Pre-Orders no less, since the kit won't be released in Japan until mid-June.  Over here the demand for kit was so great Tamiya doesn't have any to sell in their own online store, and one of the major Midwestern distributors who sells on eBay blew through their allotment of 100 kits in a little over a week.

Good news for Tamiya.  NOW,  just imagine where the kit would rank if it actually had a full detail engine. and compartment in the box ….  TIM 

[Rob Hall]

13 minutes ago, tim boyd said:

Good news for Tamiya.  NOW,  just imagine where the kit would rank if it actually had a full detail engine. and compartment in the box ….  TIM 

I doubt if an engine and engine compartment would make much difference.  Most racing car kits today are curbside, it’s all about the livery, paint scheme and body details.