Eminent Domain question

[HomerS]

The city is looking to expand the street by taking 18 inches off the property on both sides of the street, reducing the space between the sidewalk and the street.  Since this is for the 'public good' isn't the city required to pay for the property?

[slusher]

I would think so. When they added a lane on each side of the highway here they paid for it. When it was too close to the house they had to buy the property and make a deal not just buy land used...

Edited September 2, 2020 by slusher

[restoman]

Here, the land between the side walk and street - we Canadians call it a boulevard - belongs to the city/municipality...

[StevenGuthmiller]

4 minutes ago, restoman said:

Here, the land between the side walk and street - we Canadians call it a boulevard - belongs to the city/municipality...

Pretty sure it's the same here in Minnesota.

 

30 minutes ago, HomerS said:

The city is looking to expand the street by taking 18 inches off the property on both sides of the street, reducing the space between the sidewalk and the street.  Since this is for the 'public good' isn't the city required to pay for the property?

Consider yourself lucky that they're not assessing the cost of the street expansion to you Jeff!

 

 

 

 

Steve

[1930fordpickup]

Yes, between the side walk and street is the city's property most of the time.  They will give you nothing but a bill. 

[Rob Hall]

'tree lawn' is what they call that area here in NE Ohio...my street barely has room for 2 way traffic, and when people park on the street (one side only) it becomes one lane...don't see it getting widened, though. 

[1972coronet]

There's a decent piece of real estate that's called an Easement . It's there for road improvements , sidewalks , utilities , etc. Apparently , every municipality in every state has something similarly-titled .

18" seems like a small piece to employ .

[Mark]

But, after widening the street, will they likewise have to move the sidewalks on both sides also?  Otherwise they may end up closer to the street than allowed for a residential area...

[Danno]

1 hour ago, Mark said:

But, after widening the street, will they likewise have to move the sidewalks on both sides also?  Otherwise they may end up closer to the street than allowed for a residential area...

Not likely. As John ^ said, that's part of what the 'easement' is for . . . improvements, etc.  Many localities don't have a specified distance from curb to sidewalk, but remember, if yours does, they can just change it.  They're the ones who made it, they can change it.

? 

[espo]

17 hours ago, HomerS said:

The city is looking to expand the street by taking 18 inches off the property on both sides of the street, reducing the space between the sidewalk and the street.  Since this is for the 'public good' isn't the city required to pay for the property?

You might want to attend any city Console Meetings especially when the City Planning Commission is giving any reports about redo the streets in your area. You can contact the City Hall and they would be able to give you the time and place of any public meetings. There is a stage in the planning when the city would take input from those that would be directly effected by any changes. Many cities aren't very forth coming with this information as they are legally required to be with the citizens. This will help you better understand what it is they're thinking and they are supposed to hear you and how this action would impact you. If enough people share with them the problems that this may cause them the city may alter their plans to accommodate the citizens. Remember to present your issues in a calm and concise manor. Torches and Pitch Forks are a last resort if the city will not listen to your side of the issue.    

[STYRENE-SURFER]

20 hours ago, HomerS said:

The city is looking to expand the street by taking 18 inches off the property on both sides of the street, reducing the space between the sidewalk and the street.  Since this is for the 'public good' isn't the city required to pay for the property?

Does this mean you are getting all new sidewalks/curbs ? As long as you are not loosing hedges/planted decorations

or architectural features you could come out a winner in the value of your property as well as the neighbors .

it does suck when the powers that be mess w/your stuff tho!

 

 

[1972coronet]

NOT an endorsement --- no affiliation whatsoever with this firm . Here's one firm's interpretation of property laws in Ohio ( cities and / or counties usually amend these laws ) :

http://www.ohiorelaw.com/2017/05/general-unrestricted-access-easement.html

[SSNJim]

Personally, I would contact a lawyer, not some random forum on the internet, if I was about to lose a big chunk of property. They can give you advice specific to your situation. I, for one among many here, have no idea about the circumstances wherever you are. It may cost a few dollars, but what is the value of the property you're losing?

[StevenGuthmiller]

18 hours ago, SSNJim said:

Personally, I would contact a lawyer, not some random forum on the internet, if I was about to lose a big chunk of property. They can give you advice specific to your situation. I, for one among many here, have no idea about the circumstances wherever you are. It may cost a few dollars, but what is the value of the property you're losing?

The value of 18 inches worth of boulevard is basically zero.

The loss of it will not make your property any less valuable.

Improved street conditions however, might make it more valuable.

 

 

 

 

 

Steve

Edited September 5, 2020 by StevenGuthmiller

[SSNJim]

Obviously the OP thinks there's some value. Even if there's not, there are likely expenses he may have to pay. Who pays for the street end of the driveway, especially if there's a strong slope? What about moving the mailbox? Will he have to make trips to the post office to get his mail?

I stand by my advice - a lawyer can answer all his questions accurately.

[SCRWDRVR]

I know in Delaware the easement is 5ft on sides and rear of the property and 10 ft in the front which gives them 10 feet all the way around the property. It's used mostly for repairs of existing utilities but new stuff also. In some areas the sidewalk is right at the curb and some have what we call a planning strip which is the grass area between sidewalk and curb. In that strip they can do most anything they want...

[StevenGuthmiller]

1 hour ago, SSNJim said:

Obviously the OP thinks there's some value. Even if there's not, there are likely expenses he may have to pay. Who pays for the street end of the driveway, especially if there's a strong slope? What about moving the mailbox? Will he have to make trips to the post office to get his mail?

I stand by my advice - a lawyer can answer all his questions accurately.

I don't refute that your advice is not positive.

I'm just reiterating the fact that the loss of a foot of boulevard space is not going to affect the value of the property at all and the city is very likely not going to reimburse him for the loss of that space.

Whether or not he is going to be responsible for any of the costs involved with the project should be public information and he should be able to gather that information from the city.

They should be able to tell him immediately whether or not his mail box will be eliminated or any other questions that he might have.

 

I'm a bit bewildered that he didn't receive any information from the city already if there are improvements in the works.

In every location that I've ever lived, I always received some sort of notice by mail if the work was going to affect me in any way.

I find it difficult to believe that he's going to wake up some morning with his mail box missing and a bill taped to his door for driveway work without some sort of notice before hand.

I'm not necessarily convinced that paying a lawyer at this point to do what the home owner should be able to do himself for free is required.

The lawyer won't know anything more than the home owner at the onset, and all he's going to do is contact the city and then send the home owner a bill for the information that he gathers from them.

 

If the work takes place with costs associated and the homeowner never receives any notice about them, that's the time to get a lawyer involved. 

 

 

 

 

 

Steve

Edited September 5, 2020 by StevenGuthmiller

[imarriedawitch]

This work sounds like it is being done within the limits of the municipal road allowance. People are often surprised to find out that "their" property doesn't extend as far as the side walk or roadway, it is often several feet behind either of them. For example the municipality where I reside on a residential street the limit of the road allowance is generally four feet behind the side walk. That provides a good place for underground utilities to be placed between the walk and where "my" property begins. I would check the paperwork for the house, perhaps a survey of the property has been done at some time and is attached to it or perhaps one may be on file at the local registry office. Those doing the work may even stake the property line when they begin the project.

[SSNJim]

2 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

I don't refute that your advice is not positive.

<snip for brevity>

</snip>

If the work takes place with costs associated and the homeowner never receives any notice about them, that's the time to get a lawyer involved. 

Steve

I think we're sort of on the same page - ask someone locally who knows or can find out. If it's a lawyer, fine. If it's City Hall, that's fine too. So is the Highway Department. Someone in MD, MN, AZ or another country isn't going to know the specifics of OP's situation or local laws.

[StevenGuthmiller]

6 minutes ago, SSNJim said:

I think we're sort of on the same page - ask someone locally who knows or can find out. If it's a lawyer, fine. If it's City Hall, that's fine too. So is the Highway Department. Someone in MD, MN, AZ or another country isn't going to know the specifics of OP's situation or local laws.

Can't argue with that.

 

I personally would start with contacting the city.

They will know better than anybody what the implications of the project are.

 

 

 

 

Steve