vintagerpm Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 I'm not a scale whore. I've got 1/18, 1/20, 1/25, 1/24, 1/32, 1/43, 1/72, 1/87, & 1/144 car models. Lighten up, guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 1017 Posted December 5, 2020 Author Share Posted December 5, 2020 Mike I am with you. To me minor inaccuracies have no effect on what I build 1 hour ago, vintagerpm said: I'm not a scale whore. I've got 1/18, 1/20, 1/25, 1/24, 1/32, 1/43, 1/72, 1/87, & 1/144 car models. Lighten up, guys. or buy. I only wanted know about the release of the Jaguar and not a philosophical debate about the merits of 1:24 vs 1:25. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classicgas Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 7 hours ago, the other Mike S. said: Look carefully at the upper window line where it goes back to the rear quarter window on the Hasegawa kit and compare it to the real car that I posted a pic of. You still think the Hasagawa kit is exactly like the real car? I don't know about you, but there's something wonky about the gentle curve on the upper side window line on the Hasagawa kit compared to the real car . The real car has a gentle curve to it which gets more noticeable or slanted as it goes back over the rear quarter side window. The Hasagawa kit looks straighter and doesn't slope as much like the gentle sloped curve on the real car. It straighter profile gives it a slightly elongated chop top look more so than the real car has. It's slight, but you can see it plain as day. The Revell snap kit is much better in this area. Sorry, I don't see it either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 1017 Posted December 5, 2020 Author Share Posted December 5, 2020 (edited) 20 hours ago, Mike 1017 said: Edited December 5, 2020 by Mike 1017 wrong word Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Porter Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 14 hours ago, the other Mike S. said: How could 1/25th scale be an "aberration" when that scale existed prior to the 1950's here in the U..S.? Sure, if you want a bunch of quirky weird looking European home spec models or Russian Trabants, then I guess 1/24th scale is for you. However, here in the U.S. and you like the classic Chevies, Pontiacs, Oldsmobiles, Buicks, Cadillacs, Fords, Chryslers, American Motors, etc, 1/25th is the only game in town. The Hasagawa XJS may have more engine detail than the old Revell 1/25th scale Jaguar XJS snap kit. However, that side window profile and roof look a little wonky compared to the real car. Lots of detail for sure, but the body proportion seems off. Thanks, but no thanks. I'll take the much better proportioned 1/25th scale Revell XJS snapkit. I'd have rather a deads nuts accurate body design with some detail than a super detailed kit that has slightly off body proportions. I'm not saying the Revell 1/25th scale kit is deads nuts accurate on all accounts, but it sure looks a lot better in the upper roof drip rail side window profile section than the Hasegawa XJS kit. I do build primarily vintage sports cars and as such 1/24th is for me. 1/25th scale I call an aberration because only the US domestic manufacturers make use of it and only for domestic subject matter. That makes it an aberration along the lines of Revell's 1/28th scale WWI aircraft kits (when 1/32nd scale is the commonly accepted choice for "large" aircraft) or continuing to reissue the 1/32nd scale Aurora armor kits despite 1/35th scale being the commonly accepted scale for armor internationally. In fact, to my mind the only international examples of 1/25th scale being adopted lie in Trumpeter's abortive attempt to break into the American classic car kit market. Even Arii's lovely '58 Cadillacs were 1/24th rather than 1/25th. Within the sphere of American classic cars, 1/25th is just fine. But it's a scale that should be kept to JUST that subject matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stavanzer Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 Mike S, I don't see what you're seeing either. The photos just don't show me any difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragline Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 I personally will never understand the entire 1/25 Vs 1/24 thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danno Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 I don't have a problem with scale-bickering. I call them all "1/24.5 scale" and I get along real well with me. In the immortal words of Rodney the King, "Can't we all just get along?" ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classicgas Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 2 hours ago, Dragline said: I personally will never understand the entire 1/25 Vs 1/24 thing. Nor me. I build cars in any scale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the other Mike S. Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, alexis said: Mike S, I don't see what you're seeing either. The photos just don't show me any difference. Well, no offense please, but maybe you don't want to see it? The driver's side window (the only side we can see on the Hasegawa model) looks slightly shorter in vertical height and more elongated after the front vent window pane than the real car or the Revell snap. Edited December 5, 2020 by the other Mike S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Bacon Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 (edited) At the risk of dragging this thread back on topic, here are the comparison pics I promised. I'm pretty confident about the accuracy of the scale drawings... Revell Heller Heller Revell Reve Revell Heller The real deal... You can draw your own conclusions, but FWIW, these are mine. The Revell A pillars are a tad too short, and the top line of the windscreen goes straight across instead of canting up about 30 degrees to the horizontal, which exacerbates the short windscreen problem. On the other hand, the Revell kit gets right the high point of the side window glass house being in the middle of the door window, not at the A pillar. The Heller kit is better at the bottom of the side glass, which is more or less a straight line, not kinked as on the Revell body (I'm pretty confident in the drawings, which show it as a straight line). The Revell rear window is a better shape than the Heller, but both seem a bit small compared to the real thing. The Heller "glasshouse" is narrower than the Revell, so you can't just swap windscreens, sadly. I think probably the Revell is more accurate side to side, but things are further complicated by the Revell chrome trim for the windscreen being a separate part. One of my Revells is going to be built as is alongside an OOB Heller build so I can add two really beautiful cars to my shelves. The other I'm going to spend some time figuring out how to "correct." At the moment, my thinking is that if I can figure out how to raise the line of the windscreen top, which will mean modifying the chrome part as well, that will do for the Revell. For the Heller, I'll replace the moulded in wipers, and modify the top curve of the side windows, and that should do it. I'm also going to reconfigure the Heller parts to match the design of the Revell, because I think Revell have the best way to engineer an E-type to avoid seams... Wish me luck... if I put all that work in, Tamiya is SURE to release a state of the art kit next year... best, M. Edited December 5, 2020 by Matt Bacon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the other Mike S. Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Dragline said: I personally will never understand the entire 1/25 Vs 1/24 thing. Why not just make them all 1/25th scale or 1/24th scale, then? What's the point in having two scales so closely related mathematically? I'm thinking it has something more with the way to tooling was made from the pantographed down wooden/plaster bucks back in the old days, but I may be wrong. Do they make 1/32 scale and 1/33 scale models? No. The closest I've seen is 1/34 or 1/36 scale on some obsure diecast models. Do they make 1/48 scale and 1/49 scale models? No. They just have 1/48 scale. Now, before anyone comes swooping in mentioning 1/16 and 1/18 scale. Well, 1/18 is primarily a favorite of diecast manufacturers since I haven't seen too many plastic model kits made in that scale. It's primarily 1/16 scale for plastic, but there are few exceptions here and there Also, there is no 1/16 and 1/17 scale or 1/16 and 1/15 scale models. See what I mean? That's the frustrating part of it. The scales are so closely related yet so different when you display two models together in those scales. There are lot of models in 1/24th scale I would love to buy, but I don't because they don't display well with my other 1/25 model cars. Sometimes, I like to display them togther and put them side by side to compare differences in model years and car models. You can't really do that with 1/24th and 1/25th scale models. If you do, it just looks weird. It's not so much being a scale snob, but why the concentration on the 1/24th scale market when they were making serious inroads and successful ROI in the 1/25th market? It's rather obvious Revell is catering more to the Euroropean market than the U.S market right now. However, why neglect the U.S. market? We U.S. buyers/builders like models too and we would love to see them invest in 1/25th scale again. Edited December 5, 2020 by the other Mike S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bainford Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 Thanks Matt. A very interesting and thoughtful analysis. I’ll be interested in seeing your attempt to make corrections. What are your thoughts on the engineering bits (engine, drive train, chassis)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamsuperdan Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 I'm just not sure why people think a Euro-based or Asia-based company should change their tooling to meet the supposed preferences of the US market. Likewise, I'm not sure why a US-based company should change their tooling to meet the supposed preferences of rest of the world. Makes zero sense to me. Also makes even less sense why some people are so fired up about it. Seriously? If this is all it takes to get people to go on a rant and get this upset, then I feel those people have bigger issues to deal with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Bacon Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 23 minutes ago, the other Mike S. said: It's rather obvious Revell is catering more to the Euroropean market than the U.S market right now. Well, I imagine it's because Revell is a European company and brand these days, having proved that they can't make money as a US model kit maker any more. Do I put that entirely down to picking the "wrong" scale? No. But making odd-scale models of cars that have no relevance or following outside of one market is not a route to staying afloat when that market is not buying enough kits. It seems kinda perverse when the rest of the world, even the metric countries, are buying 1"=12 feet, 1"=6 feet, 1"= 4 feet, 1"=2 feet scale models (the less said about 1/35 the better) to pursue a 1cm=25cm scale, especially when those very metric countries are not making everything 1:100, 1:75, and 1:50... best, M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowsportwagon Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 16 hours ago, the other Mike S. said: Look carefully at the upper window line where it goes back to the rear quarter window on the Hasegawa kit and compare it to the real car that I posted a pic of. You still think the Hasagawa kit is exactly like the real car? I don't know about you, but there's something wonky about the gentle curve on the upper side window line on the Hasagawa kit compared to the real car . The real car has a gentle curve to it which gets more noticeable or slanted as it goes back over the rear quarter side window. The Hasagawa kit looks straighter and doesn't slope as much like the gentle sloped curve on the real car. It straighter profile gives it a slightly elongated chop top look more so than the real car has. It's slight, but you can see it plain as day. The Revell snap kit is much better in this area. I totally agree. Body proportions being off is by biggest pet peeve. And that top kits window line is too flat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Smith Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the other Mike S. Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 (edited) 47 minutes ago, iamsuperdan said: I'm just not sure why people think a Euro-based or Asia-based company should change their tooling to meet the supposed preferences of the US market. Likewise, I'm not sure why a US-based company should change their tooling to meet the supposed preferences of rest of the world. Makes zero sense to me. Also makes even less sense why some people are so fired up about it. Seriously? If this is all it takes to get people to go on a rant and get this upset, then I feel those people have bigger issues to deal with. This is where Round 2 could step in and corner the U.S. market by releasing both new and vintage old tools based on 1/25th scale. I hope they invest in some new tooling in the future. It'll be like the old days when we had AMT/Lensey and MPC/General Mills. The interesting thing about that era is while AMT/MPC annuals and reissues seemed to fly off the shelves, those old Monogram/Revell 1/24th scale kits seem to languish forever on the shelves of the LHS's I used to visit. Yes, it's definitely a global market and the U.S.market has to take a back seat for the rest of word right now according to Revell. Edited December 5, 2020 by the other Mike S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Bacon Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 You're jumping to some pretty damning conclusions based on my photo of my build and a web shot of the real thing that are taken from different angles... Did I take the shot you're comparing to the real thing with this lens: Or this one: best, M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classicgas Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 (edited) Its close enough for me. And just because YOU see something off doesn't mean everyone has to. It never occurs to some that people see things differently. If you like something buy it if you don't don't. And not using photos from EXACTLY the same angle does no good. Edited December 5, 2020 by Classicgas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Bacon Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 OK, so let's use photos from EXACTLY the same angle... My model, on my table... blending in the real thing image... And some more... I really don't think there's much wrong there, and certainly nothing that can't be explained by the difference in focal length between the camera I'm using to shoot the model and the camera someone used to shoot the real thing... best, M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classicgas Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 Looks pretty darn close to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the other Mike S. Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 (edited) 55 minutes ago, Matt Bacon said: You're jumping to some pretty damning conclusions based on my photo of my build and a web shot of the real thing that are taken from different angles... Did I take the shot you're comparing to the real thing with this lens: Or this one: best, M. I can appreciate the incredible skill of your beautiful build of the Hasagawa kit. I understand, as most builders, you can acquire an emotional attachement to the build because you spent a lot of time on it and did a fantastic job. Still, that doesn't give the Hasegawa kit a free pass on the slight proportion problem it suffers from in the upper greenhouse section of the side windows. Edited December 5, 2020 by the other Mike S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niteowl7710 Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 People sure do pick odd hills to die on participating in this hobby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classicgas Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 Maybe they should get a hobby, go build a model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.