Is it me, or is there no margin for error using Revell decals?

[peteski]

  On 4/14/2022 at 9:17 PM, doorsovdoon said:

Yes, printed in Italy. Maybe they're too good?! Lol. They lay down ok, and yes, they do look like they are painted on, but you can't touch them because of how thin they are. Like I say in the title of this thread, there seems to be no margin for error with these decals. It's like "Get good at it, or go home" Lol

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I guess that is the price to pay for quality decals.  Their thinness makes them fragile.  While I don't know how you apply them, if you are used to thicker decals your technique might need to be modified for these decals. Use plenty of water (with some setting solution added) under the decal. That will make it easier to re-position.  You can add even more water after you laid the decal on the model.  Once in its final resting place, use an edge of a paper towel to soak up the extra water around the decal. Then if needed, use decal setting solutions.  Don't touch the decal once it is at its final position.

[Plowboy]

  On 4/15/2022 at 2:13 AM, peteski said:

I guess that is the price to pay for quality decals.  Their thinness makes them fragile.  While I don't know how you apply them, if you are used to thicker decals your technique might need to be modified for these decals. Use plenty of water (with some setting solution added) under the decal. That will make it easier to re-position.  You can add even more water after you laid the decal on the model.  Once in its final resting place, use an edge of a paper towel to soak up the extra water around the decal. Then if needed, use decal setting solutions.  Don't touch the decal once it is at its final position.

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That's just it. It doesn’t seem to matter how much water (I add a bit of Dawn dishwashing liquid) you apply to the body, they want to stick almost immediately. I use setting solution also and it doesn’t help. They do lay down nice. But, you don't have much time to get them into position. The fact that they tear so easily and can be difficult to position correctly doesn't make them a quality decal IMO.

I had a hard time with just the small stripes on my '68 Chevelle. I can't imagine attempting the larger hood and trunk stripes that Gareth is dealing with. I'd rather have a slightly thicker decal that's a little more user friendly than what came in the '68 Chevelle. 

[Bills72sj]

It might be time to try and overcoat the decals individually with Testors #9200 Decal Bonder. I use it on the decals I make on my printer. It takes a light mist coat, a 2-3 minute wait, and then the thinnest fully wet coat you can shoot. I let it dry 24 hours. I trim cut the VERY close to the edge of the artwork. They get applied with warm water and a drop of Dawn soap. I use white vinegar on the paint for setting as it is way cheaper than the tiny bottles of hobby setting solutions. I have been able the move them around for 2-3 minutes and even rewet them after setting in the wrong place. The clear bonder lets me tug them around quite a bit without tearing. I use cotton swabs to both set the center of the decal outwards and sop up the water. I just laid some decals I printed 15 years ago over a whole bunch of rivets and opening doors. Both sides went on perfectly.

[doorsovdoon]

I guess it's just a matter of practice makes perfect. Like driving two different cars from different eras, you have to adjust to the differences even though both cars have the exact same controls. It's all in the wrist, as they say. :D

[NOBLNG]

  On 4/15/2022 at 7:31 AM, Bills72sj said:

It might be time to try and overcoat the decals individually with Testors #9200 Decal Bonder. I use it on the decals I make on my printer. It takes a light mist coat, a 2-3 minute wait, and then the thinnest fully wet coat you can shoot. I let it dry 24 hours. I trim cut the VERY close to the edge of the artwork. They get applied with warm water and a drop of Dawn soap. I use white vinegar on the paint for setting as it is way cheaper than the tiny bottles of hobby setting solutions. I have been able the move them around for 2-3 minutes and even rewet them after setting in the wrong place. The clear bonder lets me tug them around quite a bit without tearing. I use cotton swabs to both set the center of the decal outwards and sop up the water. I just laid some decals I printed 15 years ago over a whole bunch of rivets and opening doors. Both sides went on perfectly.

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Those decals look fantastic. What kind of a printer do you have? Could you do something like copy and re-print kit decals with it on your own decal paper? 

[Dpate]

  On 4/15/2022 at 4:09 AM, Plowboy said:

That's just it. It doesn’t seem to matter how much water (I add a bit of Dawn dishwashing liquid) you apply to the body, they want to stick almost immediately. I use setting solution also and it doesn’t help. They do lay down nice. But, you don't have much time to get them into position. The fact that they tear so easily and can be difficult to position correctly doesn't make them a quality decal IMO.

I had a hard time with just the small stripes on my '68 Chevelle. I can't imagine attempting the larger hood and trunk stripes that Gareth is dealing with. I'd rather have a slightly thicker decal that's a little more user friendly than what came in the '68 Chevelle. 

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Odd question but are you taking the decal off the backing paper and than trying to set it where it's suppose to go or you're actually taking the whole decal still on backing after it's loose and than pulling it off while getting it into position? I know some folks like to take and sit them on a towel or something to get most of the water out and than apply the decal, but if there that thin i probably wouldn't do that.  Decal should be able to slide around for a few before sticking that fast lol.  

[doorsovdoon]

I dip them in a tub of warm water for a few seconds, then ley them on the table until they loosen from the backing paper in their own time. Leaving decals floating in the tub is asking for trouble. They usually come away and get tangled in the water as you try fishing them out. Where I can, I usually lay the wet backing paper on the car and then slide the very end of the decal on to the part and then pull the backing paper away from under it.

Edited April 15, 2022 by doorsovdoon

[Chuck Most]

  On 4/15/2022 at 4:09 AM, Plowboy said:

The fact that they tear so easily and can be difficult to position correctly doesn't make them a quality decal IMO.

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I guess it's kind of a tradeoff in some people's minds. Sort of like when BMW M5 owners go on and on about how great their car is, how it's the perfect performance sedan and it's so well balanced and comfortable to boot... then casually mumble something about the fact the main bearings need to be replaced every 50,000 miles or so.  ?

I've had the "difficult to position" problem with Revell decals, but so far I haven't torn one. (Knock on wood...) I haven't tried anything like hood stripes but I've always been happy with Revell's smaller graphics (badges, gauges, underhood labels and so forth).

My technique is soaking the backer and taking it out of the water. Then I'll set it aside and put a few drops of water on it, just enoug to where there's an even coating of moisture.  I don't touch the decal until after it's floated free of the backer. If I think I'll have any problems getting it positioned, I'll brush a little solvent onto the area where the graphic is to go. I try to keep the surface under the decal wet until it's right where I want it, then soak away the water with the edge of a paper towel or cotton swab. I DON'T  touch the paper or swab to the decal itself, I do it adjacent to the graphic. I'm just trying to absorb the water and solvent under the decal, not move it some more. That technique hasn't failed me with the thinner decals. Well... not yet, anyway...

[Plowboy]

  On 4/15/2022 at 8:54 PM, Dpate said:

Odd question but are you taking the decal off the backing paper and than trying to set it where it's suppose to go or you're actually taking the whole decal still on backing after it's loose and than pulling it off while getting it into position? I know some folks like to take and sit them on a towel or something to get most of the water out and than apply the decal, but if there that thin i probably wouldn't do that.  Decal should be able to slide around for a few before sticking that fast lol.  

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No. I slide them off of backing paper onto the model. It's just that they want to set so quickly is what I'm not used to. I did alright with them. But, I sure had to work quickly with them. Like Gareth said, there's no room for error. 

[Plowboy]

  On 4/15/2022 at 11:57 PM, Chuck Most said:

I guess it's kind of a tradeoff in some people's minds. Sort of like when BMW M5 owners go on and on about how great their car is, how it's the perfect performance sedan and it's so well balanced and comfortable to boot... then casually mumble something about the fact the main bearings need to be replaced every 50,000 miles or so.  ?

I've had the "difficult to position" problem with Revell decals, but so far I haven't torn one. (Knock on wood...) I haven't tried anything like hood stripes but I've always been happy with Revell's smaller graphics (badges, gauges, underhood labels and so forth).

My technique is soaking the backer and taking it out of the water. Then I'll set it aside and put a few drops of water on it, just enoug to where there's an even coating of moisture.  I don't touch the decal until after it's floated free of the backer. If I think I'll have any problems getting it positioned, I'll brush a little solvent onto the area where the graphic is to go. I try to keep the surface under the decal wet until it's right where I want it, then soak away the water with the edge of a paper towel or cotton swab. I DON'T  touch the paper or swab to the decal itself, I do it adjacent to the graphic. I'm just trying to absorb the water and solvent under the decal, not move it some more. That technique hasn't failed me with the thinner decals. Well... not yet, anyway...

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That's pretty much the same way I do it. I haven't torn any decals yet. I guess I'm just going to have to get used to using high quality decals. ?

[BlackSheep214]

I, too, dip decals in hot - not warm water for a few seconds then take it out and let it sit on a plate or whatever. I use both MicroSet and MicroSol with great success.

If you think Revell decals are garbage, look at Tamiya decals. They’re notoriously known to be on the thick side.

 

 

 

 

[Dpate]

  On 4/17/2022 at 11:36 PM, BlackSheep214 said:

I, too, dip decals in hot - not warm water for a few seconds then take it out and let it sit on a plate or whatever. I use both MicroSet and MicroSol with great success.

If you think Revell decals are garbage, look at Tamiya decals. They’re notoriously known to be on the thick side.

 

 

 

 

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On the thick side eh? Solvaset says hello lol

[peteski]

  On 4/18/2022 at 1:10 AM, Dpate said:

On the thick side eh? Solvaset says hello lol

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Sure, but the Tamiya decal's thick film still shows up on the model surface, and it is difficult to hide with gloss coats.  I have noticed that Tamiya has used Cartograf decals in some of their automotive and aircraft releases.

[BlackSheep214]

  On 4/18/2022 at 1:37 AM, peteski said:

Sure, but the Tamiya decal's thick film still shows up on the model surface, and it is difficult to hide with gloss coats.  I have noticed that Tamiya has used Cartograf decals in some of their automotive and aircraft releases.

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Bingo....

[BlackSheep214]

  On 4/18/2022 at 1:10 AM, Dpate said:

On the thick side eh? Solvaset says hello lol

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Even if you use Solvaset, it doesn’t help. 

[Dpate]

  On 4/18/2022 at 1:37 AM, peteski said:

Sure, but the Tamiya decal's thick film still shows up on the model surface, and it is difficult to hide with gloss coats.  I have noticed that Tamiya has used Cartograf decals in some of their automotive and aircraft releases.

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Are you using 2K clear coat? 

[peteski]

  On 4/18/2022 at 2:51 AM, Dpate said:

Are you using 2K clear coat? 

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No, and either way I don't want my model to look like it has been dipped in honey.  That is about the thickness of clear coat which would be needed to hide the thicker decal film. When I do use clear,  I strive for thin clear coat.  I know, it is a trade-off.

[Bills72sj]

  On 4/15/2022 at 12:31 PM, NOBLNG said:

Those decals look fantastic. What kind of a printer do you have? Could you do something like copy and re-print kit decals with it on your own decal paper? 

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The eagle with the flags is a reprinted scanned copy of some Italeri Peterbilt 377 A/E kit decals. The door livery is artwork I made up on my PC. The flag flames are files cribbed from the internet. They were printed with an inkjet printer. I have decal paper in both white and clear that I got from ebay. I use old school MS Paint as it lets me reduce print size instead of file size. (Reducing file size KILLS the resolution). Again, they are coated with Testors #9200 Decal Bonder from a rattle can. To let you know the capabilities, I made these full length decals that all four huge pieces went on on the 1st try.

Edited April 18, 2022 by Bills72sj

[peteski]

  On 4/18/2022 at 5:29 AM, Bills72sj said:

Again, they are coated with Testors #9200 Decal Bonder from a rattle can.

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You coat (seal) the ink jet printed decal so the inks won't run when immersed in water (not to thicken up the decal film).

[Bills72sj]

  On 4/18/2022 at 5:41 AM, peteski said:

You coat (seal) the ink jet printed decal so the inks won't run when immersed in water (not to thicken up the decal film).

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Exactly. Let ink dry 24 hours. If you don't, the bonder solvents with make the colors run. Let decal bonder dry 24 hours (or longer). Apply like any other waterslide decal. They are tough and not too thick.

[Dpate]

  On 4/18/2022 at 3:46 AM, peteski said:

No, and either way I don't want my model to look like it has been dipped in honey.  That is about the thickness of clear coat which would be needed to hide the thicker decal film. When I do use clear,  I strive for thin clear coat.  I know, it is a trade-off.

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If 2K clear is done right it wont look dipped in honey lol.  If needed a good wet sand and polish and wax will make it look like a 1:1.  I too don't like the look of a model that looks like it was dipped in 2K clear.  You don't have to go super heavy with 2K like most do.   Tamiya X-1 gloss black if done right with no orange peel (while gorgeous) will look more dipped in honey than a proper 2K clear job especially sanded and polished.

Edited April 18, 2022 by Dpate

[peteski]

  On 4/18/2022 at 10:09 PM, Dpate said:

If 2K clear is done right it wont look dipped in honey lol.  If needed a good wet sand and polish and wax will make it look like a 1:1.  I too don't like the look of a model that looks like it was dipped in 2K clear.  You don't have to go super heavy with 2K like most do.   Tamiya X-1 gloss black if done right with no orange peel (while gorgeous) will look more dipped in honey than a proper 2K clear job especially sanded and polished.

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Sand and polish?!  Another strike!

I don't sand or polish out my paint jobs -- way too  much work.Drudgery!  I rather spend my hobby time on other things. As I see it, my paint jobs are good enough without all that sanding, polishing, and rubbing.  I guess we use different painting techniques.  If I had to all that sanding and polishing, the hobby would become a chore (not a pleasant fun activity).