Paint problem

[Digger]

I'm trying to spray the Italeri model of the Australian Western star. The green plastic one. I have now put on grey primer,one coat of gloss white paint and the green seems to bleed through, so I have now sprayed 3 coats of white primer, doing all the usual things in-between, sanding etc , but it still has a green tinge to it. Anyone else has this problem and how did you cure it. 🤬

[Sandboarder]

Spray a coat of silver under your primer or use black primer. 

[Digger]

Thanks. I knew someone would know🤠

[JollySipper]

This question comes up a lot, and you'll most likely get a bunch of different answers..... I had to give up on one kit (a T Bird molded in red) because of this reason. I finally figured that the only way to keep the dye from coming through was to use craft paints on it, as they're not 'hot' like a lot of spray cans can be...... I'll still build the Thunderbird kit eventually, but it will have to wait until I get an airbrush setup..........

[Miatatom]

I built a XKE molded in red plastic. Used Createx Wicked white as a primer and got zero bleed through.

[Dave G.]

Stynylrez primer will block it as it is an acrylic poly primer/sealer. Sealer being the operative word here. Course as you stated you need an airbrush. FWIW either acrylic or enamel paints will go onto Stynylrez. Hot lacquers will go if you stay with mist coats but too wet and can get sand scratch swelling with hot lacquer.

I most recently conducted a test on some left over model parts in white styrene. This was a test for adhesion with Createx paint straight onto plastic with no primer, not for bleed. But it is interesting to note that I took red Createx opaque color and added 15- 20% of their 4050, then about the same of my own thinner which is much like their 4011 thinner and sprayed it on the under side of a hood. Heat set that in my dehydrator then took blue painters tape, de-tacked somewhat on the back of my hand. I rubbed it down onto the hood nice and tight and ripped it off. The tape took no paint with it at all, not even on any high spots or ridges ( Vallejo primer could wish to be so good lol).. So Tom using Createx as primer may be a go indeed. Now On the model ( a 53 Ford pickup) I didn't quite dare to not prime just yet so used white Stynylrez to prime it. Plus I was putting silver Liquitex on under the red anyway.

[TransAmMike]

58 minutes ago, Dave G. said:

Stynylrez primer will block it as it is an acrylic poly primer/sealer. Sealer being the operative word here. Course as you stated you need an airbrush. FWIW either acrylic or enamel paints will go onto Stynylrez. Hot lacquers will go if you stay with mist coats but too wet and can get sand scratch swelling with hot lacquer.

I most recently conducted a test on some left over model parts in white styrene. This was a test for adhesion with Createx paint straight onto plastic with no primer, not for bleed. But it is interesting to note that I took red Createx opaque color and added 15- 20% of their 4050, then about the same of my own thinner which is much like their 4011 thinner and sprayed it on the under side of a hood. Heat set that in my dehydrator then took blue painters tape, de-tacked somewhat on the back of my hand. I rubbed it down onto the hood nice and tight and ripped it off. The tape took no paint with it at all, not even on any high spots or ridges ( Vallejo primer could wish to be so good lol).. So Tom using Createx as primer may be a go indeed. Now On the model ( a 53 Ford pickup) I didn't quite dare to not prime just yet so used white Stynylrez to prime it. Plus I was putting silver Liquitex on under the red anyway.

Oh yeah Dave, you da man when it comes to Stynylrez and Createx.  I would have never considered using the Createx over an unprimed surface.  It certainly eliminates any gainyness I seem to always get with the Stynylrez.  I have a bottle of Mr. Surfacer 1500 ordered to try as a primer next.

[Dave G.]

5 hours ago, TransAmMike said:

Oh yeah Dave, you da man when it comes to Stynylrez and Createx.  I would have never considered using the Createx over an unprimed surface.  It certainly eliminates any gainyness I seem to always get with the Stynylrez.  I have a bottle of Mr. Surfacer 1500 ordered to try as a primer next.

The Mr Surfacer should be smooth Mike. I use the Mr Primer Surfacer 1000 in a bottle thinned with a little lacquer thinner and that's very smooth .  Mr Surfacer 1500 everyone says is smooth. But then for me Stynylrez is smooth if shot one of two ways. With finer needles I cut it ( Styn) nearly 50-50 with hardware store lacquer thinner. With a .7 needle I shoot it straight from the bottle. Either case is 23-25lb ish.

[TransAmMike]

17 minutes ago, Dave G. said:

The Mr Surfacer should be smooth Mike. I use the Mr Primer Surfacer 1000 in a bottle thinned with a little lacquer thinner and that's very smooth .  Mr Surfacer 1500 everyone says is smooth. But then for me Stynylrez is smooth if shot one of two ways. With finer needles I cut it ( Styn) nearly 50-50 with hardware store lacquer thinner. With a .7 needle I shoot it straight from the bottle. Either case is 23-25lb ish.

Thanks Dave. I have only sprayed it unthinned (I think😄) with #3 tip. Probably my problem huh. 

[Dpate]

5 hours ago, TransAmMike said:

Oh yeah Dave, you da man when it comes to Stynylrez and Createx.  I would have never considered using the Createx over an unprimed surface.  It certainly eliminates any gainyness I seem to always get with the Stynylrez.  I have a bottle of Mr. Surfacer 1500 ordered to try as a primer next.

Surfacer will work best with mr leveling thinner. Thinned and sprayed right it lays down silky smooth with no sanding needed.

[Dave G.]

17 minutes ago, Dpate said:

Surfacer will work best with mr leveling thinner. Thinned and sprayed right it lays down silky smooth with no sanding needed.

Mr Leveling Thinner is what I use in Mr Primer Surfacer 1000, lays down super smooth.

[Dave G.]

35 minutes ago, TransAmMike said:

Thanks Dave. I have only sprayed it unthinned (I think😄) with #3 tip. Probably my problem huh. 

I use a #3 on the Paasche H. I've even used the #5 if I just got done clear coating art work, I just leave the 5 on. There can be other variables too so not sure what your problem with the primer is in reality.

[TransAmMike]

7 minutes ago, Dave G. said:

I use a #3 on the Paasche H. I've even used the #5 if I just got done clear coating art work, I just leave the 5 on. There can be other variables too so not sure what your problem with the primer is in reality.

Ha, well I guess my problem is I seldom test spray anything.  As I said, I don't think I ever thinned thre Stynylrez and spray it with the #3 on the Procon airbrush I have. It always seems to be a bit grainy, kinda rough, but sanding should of course solve that issue.  All my recent builds are primed with Stynylrez.

[Dpate]

3 hours ago, TransAmMike said:

Ha, well I guess my problem is I seldom test spray anything.  As I said, I don't think I ever thinned thre Stynylrez and spray it with the #3 on the Procon airbrush I have. It always seems to be a bit grainy, kinda rough, but sanding should of course solve that issue.  All my recent builds are primed with Stynylrez.

I know last time i used stynylrez it liked to go on wet and self level like tamiya's primer.  I've tried a lot of primers, and always go back to Mr. Surfacer as my main primer.  Thinned with Mr. leveling thinner or rapid thinner < if you want a faster drying flat finish 1:1 or 2:1< 2 parts thinner 1 part paint.  I always eye ball my mixes though, basically you know it's mixed right when you take your pipette to mix with up the side of the mixing cup, and you see it run down not too fast, and not too opaque can kind of see through it little bit. That's more on the 2:1 ratio side of things the way I'm explaining it, and through a Iwata esclipse .5 20 PSI light coats with a final medium wet coat, and self levels to a beautiful satin finish.  There 1500 black is the best black primer I've seen, and it can actually save you from using separate black paint it's that good on its own.  Ammo by mig titans hobby matt primer is fantastic too, but it can craze if you aren't careful unless you decant it.  But if i had to choose 1 primer and 2 thinners only to use for the rest of my life that would be Mr. Surfacer, Mr. leveling thinner, and Rapid thinner because it has it uses.  Here is a pic of all there primers, but it's missing there PINK though. 

Edited February 10, 2023 by Dpate

[Digger]

Thank you all, BUT here in Cyprus we don't have model shops so everything has to be ordered on the net, preferably from EU countries, if it comes from the UK we have import duty on it as well. So I have to forget all these fancy things and try practical things. Like the first answer. Now Sandboarder you say silver under the primer, can I put a lite coat of primer first then silver then the colour?. By the way I only have aerosol cans from the local store, basic primers etc. Not set up for airbrush yet, again it's all expenses. Again thanks , sorry I didn't make it clear from the start. By the way I have paint stripped it back to bare plastic again and it now has a matt finish to the plastic, I wonder if it's took alot of the die out as Jollysipper has said? 

[Bills72sj]

Once you have a smooth primed surface, brush paint it with Future. It is self leveling so you do not have to have an airbrush. If you mess up any areas, clean it off with household ammonia. (It should not bother the primer at all). One the Future has cured, it being acrylic, will seal the surface and keep the top coat solvents from leaching the color up to surface. Try all of this on a flat portion of sprue to confirm if you wish. Another alternative is rattle can chrome from the auto parts store. The high aluminum content may provide a chemical barrier as well. My former neighbor used it on drywall to stop a greasy pizza stain on his dining room wall from bleeding through his latex paint.

[Digger]

Thanks will see if I can find some over here. Or something similar.

[Dave G.]

11 hours ago, TransAmMike said:

Ha, well I guess my problem is I seldom test spray anything.  As I said, I don't think I ever thinned thre Stynylrez and spray it with the #3 on the Procon airbrush I have. It always seems to be a bit grainy, kinda rough, but sanding should of course solve that issue.  All my recent builds are primed with Stynylrez.

A Procon #3 I don't know the size of. The Paasche H #3 is I believe .66 or .7 which is what I mostly prime with.  Also Mike, Stynylrez periodically needs to be power mixed with something like the Badger battery powered mixer, which is what I use. The sediment  will never mix fully back into the liquid by shaking or even with a mixing stick. In between power mixing though shaking is sufficient.

A guy over in the FSM forums put me onto thinning Stynylrez with lacquer thinner. Always the skeptic I had to test first, the result of which was a beautiful satin finish. I thinned 50-50 in that test with regular hardware store lacquer thinner. I've shot that all the way down to a .25 tip at times.

Well anyway, all I can do is share, people can believe or do as they wish with the info. You will like the Mr product though ( well it does stink for a few minutes but works great).

[Bainford]

8 hours ago, Digger said:

can I put a lite coat of primer first then silver then the colour?

If I was going to use silver as a barrier, that's the way I would do it. A light coat of primer to prepare the plastic for paint, then your coat of silver. At that point, you can paint your body colour over the silver, or another light coat of primer over the silver first, then paint. Depending on how smooth everything is, you may want to do some light sanding of the silver/primer before laying down the final colour.

However, if you are worried about paint build-up, you could probably get away with no primer at all. Paint your silver over the bare plastic, then your colour. Something to keep in mind; If you are doing any masking, sometimes the tape can pull the colour coat off the silver base. It might be best to test on scrap plastic first, before committing to your project. Also, be sure all coats are well cured before advancing to the next step.

...or, you can paint with acrylic, which should not experience bleeding. I'm not aware of any good hobby acrylics in a spray can, though, and some non-hobby paints labelled as acrylics can still be hot enough to promote bleeding.

[TransAmMike]

13 hours ago, Dpate said:

I know last time i used stynylrez it liked to go on wet and self level like tamiya's primer.  I've tried a lot of primers, and always go back to Mr. Surfacer as my main primer.  Thinned with Mr. leveling thinner or rapid thinner < if you want a faster drying flat finish 1:1 or 2:1< 2 parts thinner 1 part paint.  I always eye ball my mixes though, basically you know it's mixed right when you take your pipette to mix with up the side of the mixing cup, and you see it run down not too fast, and not too opaque can kind of see through it little bit. That's more on the 2:1 ratio side of things the way I'm explaining it, and through a Iwata esclipse .5 20 PSI light coats with a final medium wet coat, and self levels to a beautiful satin finish.  There 1500 black is the best black primer I've seen, and it can actually save you from using separate black paint it's that good on its own.  Ammo by mig titans hobby matt primer is fantastic too, but it can craze if you aren't careful unless you decant it.  But if i had to choose 1 primer and 2 thinners only to use for the rest of my life that would be Mr. Surfacer, Mr. leveling thinner, and Rapid thinner because it has it uses.  Here is a pic of all there primers, but it's missing there PINK though. 

Good post Dusty😀👍

[TransAmMike]

4 hours ago, Dave G. said:

A Procon #3 I don't know the size of. The Paasche H #3 is I believe .66 or .7 which is what I mostly prime with.  Also Mike, Stynylrez periodically needs to be power mixed with something like the Badger battery powered mixer, which is what I use. The sediment  will never mix fully back into the liquid by shaking or even with a mixing stick. In between power mixing though shaking is sufficient.

A guy over in the FSM forums put me onto thinning Stynylrez with lacquer thinner. Always the skeptic I had to test first, the result of which was a beautiful satin finish. I thinned 50-50 in that test with regular hardware store lacquer thinner. I've shot that all the way down to a .25 tip at times.

Well anyway, all I can do is share, people can believe or do as they wish with the info. You will like the Mr product though ( well it does stink for a few minutes but works great).

Thanks Dave, you always have good info.  Gonna try the Mr. Surfacer if it ever gets to me...had to order on line.  But not gonna give up on the Stynylrez, especially since I have a lot of it. 

[Digger]

14 hours ago, Bainford said:

If I was going to use silver as a barrier, that's the way I would do it. A light coat of primer to prepare the plastic for paint, then your coat of silver. At that point, you can paint your body colour over the silver, or another light coat of primer over the silver first, then paint. Depending on how smooth everything is, you may want to do some light sanding of the silver/primer before laying down the final colour.

However, if you are worried about paint build-up, you could probably get away with no primer at all. Paint your silver over the bare plastic, then your colour. Something to keep in mind; If you are doing any masking, sometimes the tape can pull the colour coat off the silver base. It might be best to test on scrap plastic first, before committing to your project. Also, be sure all coats are well cured before advancing to the next step.

...or, you can paint with acrylic, which should not experience bleeding. I'm not aware of any good hobby acrylics in a spray can, though, and some non-hobby paints labelled as acrylics can still be hot enough to promote bleeding.

Many thanks Bainford. This is the answer I was wanting, thanks also to Sandboarder, and Jollysipper for the idea in the first place. Now all I have to do is try it.         

[Sandboarder]

On 2/10/2023 at 4:32 PM, Digger said:

Now Sandboarder you say silver under the primer, can I put a lite coat of primer first then silver then the colour?

Yeah of course you can. The idea is that the metallic flakes in the silver will block the bleed through. Any texture from the silver can be sealed and smoothed with a primer or surfacer. 
 

There is no reason you can’t spray primer, silver, primer, colours and clear coats. On your projects
 

I personally only use Mr Hobby 1500 Black surfacer for everything I paint. Recently I painted a Bandai kit molded in red and pink with black primer/surfacer and then a light green paint, no bleeds. 

Edited February 13, 2023 by Sandboarder

[Digger]

18 minutes ago, Sandboarder said:

Yeah of course you can. The idea is that the metallic flakes in the silver will block the bleed through. Any texture from the silver can be sealed and smoothed with a primer or surfacer. 
 

There is no reason you can’t spray primer, silver, primer, colours and clear coats. On your projects
 

I personally only use Mr Hobby 1500 Black surfacer for everything I paint. Recently I painted a Bandai kit molded in red and pink with black primer/surfacer and then a light green paint, no bleeds. 

Thanks, I paint stripped the model off so I can have a fresh start. Sprayed light coat of grey primer, and then a good coat of silver, it looked good so it was givern a coat of gloss varnish. This morning some of the green has come through over night. I think I will give it a coat of silver again on top of the  varnish and see if it comes through again.😜

Edited February 13, 2023 by Digger
Correction

[NOBLNG]

5 hours ago, Digger said:

Thanks, I paint stripped the model off so I can have a fresh start. Sprayed light coat of grey primer, and then a good coat of silver, it looked good so it was givern a coat of gloss varnish. This morning some of the green has come through over night. I think I will give it a coat of silver again on top of the  varnish and see if it comes through again.😜

This stuff will definitely create a barrier. It comes in both aerosol and liquid. I have airbrushed the liquid form. Make sure you get the shellac based stuff, as they have other similar products.  It is for sealing knots on wood surfaces. I would put a light coat of Tamiya primer down first then a coat of this.

Edited February 13, 2023 by NOBLNG