Preventing Tamiya Spray Can Runs/Bubbles

[TheCamaroKid]

I know just about every other thread as well as video on YouTube says Tamiya Lacquer Spray cans won't cause runs but I can't seem to prevent them. I soak the cans in a bowl of warm water, I shake well and frequently, I usually do 2 to 3 lite mist coats about a foot away. Then I do a heavy wet coat close up and almost every one of my models save for 2 has gotten at least on small section of runs (usually on the sides, usually near the wheel wells) or bubbles (usually around the wheel wells or the windshield.

I also use Tamiya Primer. And often the Tamiya Primer gets some runs or bubbles, even when applied in mist coats.

I can't seem to prevent them no matter what.

[KWT]

Can you post a picture of what you're dealing with?

Sounds like maybe you're running to slow on your wet coat or probably spraying to close... but without seeing it, it's just guesses.
I'm sure far better painters will chime in.

Edited March 14, 2023 by KWT

[Fat Brian]

The heavy, wet, close up coat is doing it. The paint has to travel through the air a bit to dry it out enough not to run. Shooting too close can let bubbles to make it to the body. Try keeping the same distance for your wet coat as your mist coats and keep it a bit less wet. Ideally you only want it damp enough so that when you go from the side to the top or top to the side the indirect spray will blend in.

[TheCamaroKid]

2 minutes ago, Fat Brian said:

The heavy, wet, close up coat is doing it. The paint has to travel through the air a bit to dry it out enough not to run. Shooting too close can let bubbles to make it to the body. Try keeping the same distance for your wet coat as your mist coats and keep it a bit less wet. Ideally you only want it damp enough so that when you go from the side to the top or top to the side the indirect spray will blend in.

That was my theory too, that It was the wet coat causing problems. Is it better just to build up complete coverage with light coats? Then do the same with clear, then polish clear to get rid of any orange peel?

[Fat Brian]

43 minutes ago, TheCamaroKid said:

That was my theory too, that It was the wet coat causing problems. Is it better just to build up complete coverage with light coats? Then do the same with clear, then polish clear to get rid of any orange peel?

That's more what I do, I try to get most of shine from clear coat. Honestly, if I can get a good coat of clear I don't even polish it, I've got better things to do with my time than risk ruining a good enough paint job.

[TheCamaroKid]

25 minutes ago, Fat Brian said:

That's more what I do, I try to get most of shine from clear coat. Honestly, if I can get a good coat of clear I don't even polish it, I've got better things to do with my time than risk ruining a good enough paint job.

Whats the best way to do clear coat then with Tamiya spray?

[Tabbysdaddy]

Those model type paints don't like Florida weather. I stopped getting the bubbles when I switched to other paints.

 

 

 

 

[TheCamaroKid]

11 minutes ago, Tabbysdaddy said:

Those model type paints don't like Florida weather. I stopped getting the bubbles when I switched to other paints.

 

 

 

 

Ill have to try duplicolor then.

[Dpate]

Tamiya TS sprays & there primer is not the issue.  You're probably spraying the last coat too wet too close, but you just need medium wet coat as Tamiya likes to go on wet and self level.  Also where are you spraying? Inside or outside? Temp & humidity is good to know about especially if you're gonna use a clear in a can.

[TheCamaroKid]

1 hour ago, Dpate said:

Tamiya TS sprays & there primer is not the issue.  You're probably spraying the last coat too wet too close, but you just need medium wet coat as Tamiya likes to go on wet and self level.  Also where are you spraying? Inside or outside? Temp & humidity is good to know about especially if you're gonna use a clear in a can.

I'm spraying outside in a painter's tent, in Florida. Humidity has been low the last few days but I do have a dehumidifer for the tent. Usually it takes 70% humidity down to below 50%.

[Dpate]

1 hour ago, TheCamaroKid said:

I'm spraying outside in a painter's tent, in Florida. Humidity has been low the last few days but I do have a dehumidifer for the tent. Usually it takes 70% humidity down to below 50%.

I paint in 35%-40% humidity, but that's inside.  Since you're having issues with Tamiya i would take the humidity down, and do some tests on spare parts if you can.  Also warm the cans up like you were doing, and make sure to really shake them, and than spray as usual.  Keep about 10 inches away from the part, 2-3 mist coats..1 medium coat...1 medium wet coat.  That's with 5-10 mins apart, and you are waiting between coats right?

Edited March 15, 2023 by Dpate

[jaymcminn]

50% humidity is fine for Tamiya sprays. Honestly, if you back off to 8-10 inches away from the body for your wet coats you should be good. Keep the can moving too... don't stop or go too slowly. For Tamiya clear I like to hit it within 30 minutes of the final color coat with 2 to 3 medium coats. 

[slusher]

I have never heated my paint. Heating it makes it thinner.

[Mopar2]

When I use rattle cans...I wash the body and parts with Dawn dish detergent.(squeaky clean).Dry it really well...Then spray a light coat and let dry about 5 minutes.Then in good light where you can see down side of car.I spray until you can see it just get wet with the second coat.I hold can about 8 to 10 inches away from car.Its worked for me.I spray everything with rattle cans.And you can see my paint jobs on cars posted.I do the same with Clear Coat...

Edited March 15, 2023 by Mopar2

[Mopar2]

25 minutes ago, slusher said:

I have never heated my paint. Heating it makes it thinner.

You are right slusher.It thins the paint...

[gman]

Bubbles is likely propellant making it into the paint as it hits the body (from being too close) and becomes trapped in the paint. I would try some tests on spoons or a scrap body shooting the paint from farther away to try to find a happy medium where the paint doesn't run and texture is minimal upon full cure.

The lacquer in Tamiya TS paints will actually bite into/melt/"activate" previous coats to a degree. That means if there is texture in your mist coats, spraying wetter coats over top will see the solvent melt into previous coats and minimize that texture. Subsequent coats may still show some slight texture, but that can level out as the paint cures and shrinks. If you balance the overall wetness when you spray your final colour coats, it should leave you with minimal texture that polishing compounds can take care of (or clear coats will cover, leaving you with a protective layer over your colour coats that can be wet sanded, polished and buffed to a high shine).

[Zoom Zoom]

Tamiya sprays are super easy to use once you master them. Mist coats first, wet coats last. I learned the hard way that spraying too-wet, too-close caused minor runs and worse the propellant bubbles; the runs actually shrink a lot when the paint cures. Back off a bit from the body on wet coats and practice moving the can at nearly warp speed as you spray the body sides. Tamiya sprays decant and airbrush well, and now their LP lacquer jar paints are out and I use them all the time through my airbrushes. I use Tamiya/Mr. Hobby rattlecan primers all the time, they're so easy/convenient and smooth.

If Tamiya sprays drive you mad Duplicolor or any similar budget rattle cans will be likely be worse. Master the Tamiya stuff and you'll be a customer for life.

[1972coronet]

2 hours ago, Zoom Zoom said:

Master the Tamiya stuff and you'll be a customer for life.

Amen to that. I've been using Tamiya's aerosols almost exclusively for more than 20 years, and have only had one can 'go bad' -- and that's only because of user error (the can was half-empty - I'd used its first half on another kit - and I let it sit for too long between uses... like, 10+ years).

I've sprayed Tamiya TS in weather and temperatures from 20 degrees with moderate humidity, to 100 degrees and low humidity, and more recently, 90 degrees with 50% humidity -- zero issues.

[TheCamaroKid]

I just did a primer coat on a Frank Iaconio pro stock Camaro. I did 4 light mist coats. No runs but the primer doesn't feel smooth. It's not rough either. I'm going to sand it with fine grit sandpaper later and shoot the yellow coats (also Tamiya) tomorrow or Friday. The car is covered and no runs, so I am happy about that.

[ctruss53]

Tamiya spray paints have been the most user friendly and forgiving paints I have ever used.

Humidity can be an issue, but you have to remember that Tamiya deals with as much humidity as you would deal with in Florida. They make products that should function in humid climates.... to a point.

Tamiya spray can primer is about the best there is. I have an airbrush. I can pick any primer I want. And I still use Tamiya spray can primer.

Your main problem is that wet coat.  I never apply a close up wet coat with any brand of spray can. I always shoot from about a foot away, and always keep the can moving. I mist on 2-3 coats, sometimes I'll mist on a 4th coat.

The clearcoat is where you should be doing your wet coats.  Again, I have an airbrush, but Mr Hobby Gloss Clear Ultra UV in a spray can is so good that many times I will use that clear coat instead of all the options I have with an airbrush. And with the Mr Hobby clear, I mist on 2-3 coats, and then I'll do 1 or 2 heavier coats to get it to lay down smooth. But even those heavier coats I will still spray from 8-12 inches away. To get the heavier coat I just slow down the passes.

 

I hope this helps.

[Rodent]

I don't know what has happened, but the gloss Tamiya I have purchased in the last couple of years seems to go on "dryer" than I remember, including the TS-13. I am not sure what to do, but I may have to give up the TS-13 and start airbrushing clear instead. The flats and primers seem to still be fine.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Rodent

[TheCamaroKid]

1 hour ago, ctruss53 said:

Tamiya spray paints have been the most user friendly and forgiving paints I have ever used.

Humidity can be an issue, but you have to remember that Tamiya deals with as much humidity as you would deal with in Florida. They make products that should function in humid climates.... to a point.

Tamiya spray can primer is about the best there is. I have an airbrush. I can pick any primer I want. And I still use Tamiya spray can primer.

Your main problem is that wet coat.  I never apply a close up wet coat with any brand of spray can. I always shoot from about a foot away, and always keep the can moving. I mist on 2-3 coats, sometimes I'll mist on a 4th coat.

The clearcoat is where you should be doing your wet coats.  Again, I have an airbrush, but Mr Hobby Gloss Clear Ultra UV in a spray can is so good that many times I will use that clear coat instead of all the options I have with an airbrush. And with the Mr Hobby clear, I mist on 2-3 coats, and then I'll do 1 or 2 heavier coats to get it to lay down smooth. But even those heavier coats I will still spray from 8-12 inches away. To get the heavier coat I just slow down the passes.

 

I hope this helps.

I think that does help and that is how I will likely do my paint tomorrow. I'll probably just do 4 mist coats to get full coverage of the car.

[tbill]

As mentioned earlier, the bubbles are from pools of paint gassing out the solvent ( ask me how I know…, lol), and also as mentioned earlier, if you’re close to the object, pretty much use warp speed. Close and quick will yield a fairly smooth layer of wet paint, but you can’t sight see when you do it, keep it on warp speed. Try it on a spare/scrap body and see how it comes out, cause once you nail the speed/closeness, it’s a game changer 

[Jim B]

I used to have a heck of a time with Tamiya gloss paints (not so much flat).  I defiantly agree that mist coats are the way to go.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Jim B

[Zoom Zoom]

15 hours ago, TheCamaroKid said:

I just did a primer coat on a Frank Iaconio pro stock Camaro. I did 4 light mist coats. No runs but the primer doesn't feel smooth. It's not rough either. I'm going to sand it with fine grit sandpaper later and shoot the yellow coats (also Tamiya) tomorrow or Friday. The car is covered and no runs, so I am happy about that.

The primer is a little friendlier with wet coats, doesn't have the same tendency to run and easy to sand. I do the same mist coats followed by wet coats as the colors. I use their white primer, regular gray primer, fine gray primer, pink and red oxide primers and more recently they have a base white which is amazing stuff. Covers multiple colors fast and dries to a semi gloss finish. It only comes in smaller cans, I would prefer they sell base white in their "tall boy" sized cans. FWIW Mr. Hobby surfacers are even better.