Rust-oleum Issues?

[bobthehobbyguy]

10 hours ago, eldo60 said:

this is is the result after using rustoleum primer and automotive paint.

i noticed this after about a week.  ive been told that maybe the primer wasn't fully dry or the wrong type of primer.

since i still have enough paint left for another try, gonna strip it and try a different primer. 

mire be a little tough going since its been 3 years or so,  really pissed so i put it aside for a while didn know it would be this long.

Cadillac '69/70 firemist color on a Mercedes 500k cabriolet.

 

I would hazard a guess that the top paint was drying faster than the primer coat. Another reason not to mix manufactuers

[Anglia105E]

10 hours ago, bobthehobbyguy said:

I would hazard a guess that the top paint was drying faster than the primer coat. Another reason not to mix manufactuers

I totally agree Bob . . . This is why, despite reading about some disturbing Rust-oleum issues, I have decided to proceed with testing of the Plastic Primer White and the Spa Blue Gloss products, both of which are Rust-oleum branded.

David

[bobthehobbyguy]

True both are Rustleum however you are using two lines of Rustleum paint. The color coat is painters touch but the primer is not. Even though you are testing the still  could have issues because these products may never have been designed to work together for all conditions. 

So slightly different conditions when spraying could cause an immediate paint reaction or one down the road such as the cracking above.

Just something to consider.

[ctruss53]

I really wish people would stop using Rustoleum priimers and paints on their scale models.

Every day I come into this forum and see people having problems with those products on their models. Because they are not designed for scale models.

Have any of you noticed how rare it is to see threads about problems with paints designed for scale model use, like Tamiya TS spray paints, Tamiya Primer, and Mr Hobby products. And when you do see threads where people have problems with these products, it is nearly always user error?

I just wanted to poiint that out.

[Anglia105E]

2 hours ago, bobthehobbyguy said:

True both are Rustleum however you are using two lines of Rustleum paint. The color coat is painters touch but the primer is not. Even though you are testing the still  could have issues because these products may never have been designed to work together for all conditions. 

So slightly different conditions when spraying could cause an immediate paint reaction or one down the road such as the cracking above.

Just something to consider.

I take your point Bob, but can I draw your attention to the wording on the back of the can for the Rust-oleum Spa Blue Gloss . . . See photo.

This clearly states ' Bare plastic should be primed with Rust-oleum Plastic Primer '  -  ( fourth line down, from the centre to the end of that line '.

I am applying these two products to bare plastic (okay this is 60 year old plastic) and my local store 'Boyes' are authorised distributors for Rust-oleum paint products. This means that I am following the manufacturer's instructions to the letter, which clearly states that I must use the Plastic Primer product on the surface of the plastic, before applying the second product which is the gloss enamel.

I quite understand that you guys probably have considerably greater knowledge of the Rust-oleum products than I do, because as I said previously, I believe these paint products are more widely used and available in the US than here in UK. . . . Also, I might not be as experienced a scale model painter as you guys, but in this case I am taking extra care to get this right, hence the extensive pre-testing. The Frog Ford Consul Cortina kit is extremely rare, and I have paid a considerable amount of money to get hold of the kit. So far (fingers crossed) there have been no unusual effects appearing on the surface of the plastic, but that does not mean that further down the line there may be something nasty that happens after one week, one month or even one year !

David

[Anglia105E]

2 hours ago, ctruss53 said:

I really wish people would stop using Rustoleum priimers and paints on their scale models.

Every day I come into this forum and see people having problems with those products on their models. Because they are not designed for scale models.

Have any of you noticed how rare it is to see threads about problems with paints designed for scale model use, like Tamiya TS spray paints, Tamiya Primer, and Mr Hobby products. And when you do see threads where people have problems with these products, it is nearly always user error?

I just wanted to poiint that out.

Thanks Chad, and I take your point . . . Keep in mind please, that where I live in Derbyshire rural UK, we do not have any stores that sell Tamiya aerosol cans, and Mr Hobby products are not available in UK . . . This restricts my scale model building to using paints from the Halfords chain of stores, which sells paint products specifically intended for automotive application ( so not plastic ), then the specialist automotive paint suppliers (also not for plastic models), and finally the Rust-oleum products, which according to US model builders are intended for garden furniture (PVC) and cheap surfaces around the home.

Unless I can find a paint product that does not damage my prized Cortina model car, I shall not risk applying any of the above products.

At this moment, I have only applied the two Rust-oleum products to parts of the kit that will not be visible when it is completed.

David

[ctruss53]

In your particular case, I would invest in an airbrush.

If you are on a budget, you can order the Iwata NEO system with a mini compressorfor less than $100.  Or you can find a cheap compressor and get a cheap chinese airbrush on Amazon for like $25.  Either route should get you a paint system for under $100.

Then once you have an airbrush you can apply literally anything.

Tamiya has an LP series of paints and primers that are available in small jars so you should be able to order them online. You can thin these with any lacquer thinner available locally in a hardeware store.

Also in the UK you should have access to Zero Paints. They make high quality airbrush paints. They have a large variety of colors, and can also mix up any color you want. Like that original Cornita color.

I would also contact Splash Paints. They are in Oregon, USA, but he might be able to ship to you. Splash paints are my preferred paint. He has 1k epoxy primers that work with models, He has tons of colors available, and he will also mix up any color you want. He also sells 2k epoxy clear which is an excellent product. But Tamiya TS spray can clear, and LP clearcoats work as well.

Long story short. I know you have been looking for advice on what to do with your old, and rare kit. And all I can advise is to do whatever you can to find products designed to work with models. Ask around and find out who can ship to you.

Another approach that you have started trying is testing. BUT, maybe if you did some research online you could find exactly what that model kit is molded out of. Buy some of that material, and test other products untill youu find something that works.

I just don't want to see you ruint that kit with Rustoleum products. Sure, some people are using those products with some success. But they are not designed for scale models and if you do enough searching you will find so many more failures then the few success stories. Because those products only work if you use them just right.

Good luck.

[Anglia105E]

51 minutes ago, ctruss53 said:

In your particular case, I would invest in an airbrush.

If you are on a budget, you can order the Iwata NEO system with a mini compressorfor less than $100.  Or you can find a cheap compressor and get a cheap chinese airbrush on Amazon for like $25.  Either route should get you a paint system for under $100.

Then once you have an airbrush you can apply literally anything.

Tamiya has an LP series of paints and primers that are available in small jars so you should be able to order them online. You can thin these with any lacquer thinner available locally in a hardeware store.

Also in the UK you should have access to Zero Paints. They make high quality airbrush paints. They have a large variety of colors, and can also mix up any color you want. Like that original Cornita color.

I would also contact Splash Paints. They are in Oregon, USA, but he might be able to ship to you. Splash paints are my preferred paint. He has 1k epoxy primers that work with models, He has tons of colors available, and he will also mix up any color you want. He also sells 2k epoxy clear which is an excellent product. But Tamiya TS spray can clear, and LP clearcoats work as well.

Long story short. I know you have been looking for advice on what to do with your old, and rare kit. And all I can advise is to do whatever you can to find products designed to work with models. Ask around and find out who can ship to you.

Another approach that you have started trying is testing. BUT, maybe if you did some research online you could find exactly what that model kit is molded out of. Buy some of that material, and test other products untill youu find something that works.

I just don't want to see you ruint that kit with Rustoleum products. Sure, some people are using those products with some success. But they are not designed for scale models and if you do enough searching you will find so many more failures then the few success stories. Because those products only work if you use them just right.

Good luck.

Thank you Chad . . . I do have an airbrush, which I have used with reasonable success, and it is the cheapest Chinese airbrush on the market.

Yes, I have some Zero Paints, and I had forgotten about those, so thanks for the reminder. Hiroboy is the company in UK that supplies Zero Paints.

I thought about getting hold of a second Frog kit from 1962, but they are so rare and expensive . . . so not an option.

I don't have the Ford paint code, and I am not certain which one of three blue colours is the correct one, which prevents me from getting this colour mixed. Usually, I would get my Rolls-Royce colours mixed, but I always have the precise paint code for those, and I use cellulose paint, which is fine over plastic as long as a good Halfords primer is applied first of course.

Anyway, many thanks, and this is all useful info from fellow MCM forum members.

David

David

[Bill Eh?]

I have been following along with most of this discussion. You have the Rustoleum paint and primer. You also mentioned that you have an airbrush. Why not just decant some of the blue paint and some of the primer. You don't have to empty both full spray cans. Then you can experiment with applying suitable light coats through your airbrush. Do this on some scrap styrene, or even on an old kit body. This might give you an idea as to how the primer and paint might interact with each other and possibly with styrene as well. That's just my thought on erring on the cautionary side.  Bill A.

[Anglia105E]

23 minutes ago, Bill Eh? said:

I have been following along with most of this discussion. You have the Rustoleum paint and primer. You also mentioned that you have an airbrush. Why not just decant some of the blue paint and some of the primer. You don't have to empty both full spray cans. Then you can experiment with applying suitable light coats through your airbrush. Do this on some scrap styrene, or even on an old kit body. This might give you an idea as to how the primer and paint might interact with each other and possibly with styrene as well. That's just my thought on erring on the cautionary side.  Bill A.

Sounds like a good idea to me Bill . . . I have decanted paint from aerosol cans before, and a local model builder friend usually advises me to do just that.

I would rather not end up with a matt finish, because I always struggle to achieve a high gloss finish, by using clearcoat for example The Rust-oleum Spa Blue is a gloss finish, so that should be fine. I like to use Tamiya Polishing Compounds, once a gloss coat has dried / cured for one week at least.

David

[ctruss53]

57 minutes ago, Anglia105E said:

I don't have the Ford paint code, and I am not certain which one of three blue colours is the correct one, which prevents me from getting this colour mixed. 

You must hone your Google-Fu skills.  haha

Here is the PPG color for UK Fords in 1962.  Show this to Zero Paints, and send them a picture of the car. They can mix you up a batch.

[ctruss53]

I kept googling to make sure I gave you the right info.  Here is another source that confirms PPG 12949 Light Blue is the color.

 

This source is 1962 and 1963 Cortina factory color choices.

[Anglia105E]

5 minutes ago, ctruss53 said:

You must hone your Google-Fu skills.  haha

Here is the PPG color for UK Fords in 1962.  Show this to Zero Paints, and send them a picture of the car. They can mix you up a batch.

That does look close Chad . . . Light Blue is a strong possibility . . . Ford paint codes from 1962 - 1964 are two letters, so ' BY ' is Light Blue.

The other two blues are Sapphire Blue - BW, and Lagoon Blue - CJ

Thanks for looking this up.

David

[ctruss53]

Yeah, I looked back at your pics to verify. I am pretty sure thtat Light Blue is the right color.

Plus, if you ask the real scale nerds around here, you are technically supposed to use paints that are ever so slightly lighter than the real color because of some scale effect mumbo jumbo.

[ctruss53]

I did even more digging.  That first color I posted, the PPG 12949 crosses over to UK Ford code BY. 

[Joe Lange]

Hey David, congratulations on opening a huge can of worms!  But, one of the great things about this forum is learning from others mistakes and achievements.  I might be a little late to this discussion but, Ace-Garageguy, ctruss53, and Bobthehobbyguy are spot-on.  I was never a great painter, (always spray can), and had pretty good luck with Rustoleum spray, however like so many other 'older' products, it's not the same anymore.  My Monogram '45 MG TC, and Lindberg '29 Mercedes Benz SSK that I have posted here were done years ago with Rustoleum spray and polished out with toothpaste.  (Of course, I waited about a month for the paint to dry!)  This was their BASIC spray enamel and primer.  None of the 'specialized' sprays now.  (All BLAH_BLAH_BLAH_BLAH as far as I'm concerned.)   Today, I stick to Tamyia or Dupli-Color.  And use their primer with their paint! 

Have you looked at Tamyia TS-10 French Blue or TS-23 Light Blue? 

That's my 2 cents worth.........Good luck!   Please post your WIP pics!   

 

[Anglia105E]

14 minutes ago, ctruss53 said:

I did even more digging.  That first color I posted, the PPG 12949 crosses over to UK Ford code BY. 

Wow ! . . . Now THAT is good news Chad.

Cheers,

David

[ctruss53]

Bad news is I can't find anyone that has PPG 12949.

HAHAHA

[Anglia105E]

12 minutes ago, Joe Lange said:

Hey David, congratulations on opening a huge can of worms!  But, one of the great things about this forum is learning from others mistakes and achievements.  I might be a little late to this discussion but, Ace-Garageguy, ctruss53, and Bobthehobbyguy are spot-on.  I was never a great painter, (always spray can), and had pretty good luck with Rustoleum spray, however like so many other 'older' products, it's not the same anymore.  My Monogram '45 MG TC, and Lindberg '29 Mercedes Benz SSK that I have posted here were done years ago with Rustoleum spray and polished out with toothpaste.  (Of course, I waited about a month for the paint to dry!)  This was their BASIC spray enamel and primer.  None of the 'specialized' sprays now.  (All BLAH_BLAH_BLAH_BLAH as far as I'm concerned.)   Today, I stick to Tamyia or Dupli-Color.  And use their primer with their paint! 

Have you looked at Tamyia TS-10 French Blue or TS-23 Light Blue? 

That's my 2 cents worth.........Good luck!   Please post your WIP pics!   

 

Thanks a lot Joe . . . Certainly, the more modern paints are not the same as the older versions. Someone suggested that the Rust-oleum Spa Blue Gloss might even have a primer already as part of it's formula, and consequently if the Spa Blue Gloss was then applied over the Plastic Primer White, this ' might ' cause an unusual reaction ?  (That's not what it says on the tin  ! )

I thought about the Tamiya TS-10 French Blue and the TS-23 Light Blue, but cannot find a supplier for those paints. Also not sure about acrylics.

Some WIP pics will be posted soon  !

David

[Anglia105E]

14 minutes ago, ctruss53 said:

Bad news is I can't find anyone that has PPG 12949.

HAHAHA

I am torn between giving the ' BY ' paint code to Zero Paints, or giving it to Autopaints Brighton who can mix the colour in cellulose.

Both suppliers would mix a product that would result in a matt finish. This is why I favour living dangerously with the Rust-oleum Spa Blue Gloss.

David

[ctruss53]

2 hours ago, Anglia105E said:

I am torn between giving the ' BY ' paint code to Zero Paints, or giving it to Autopaints Brighton who can mix the colour in cellulose.

Both suppliers would mix a product that would result in a matt finish. This is why I favour living dangerously with the Rust-oleum Spa Blue Gloss.

David

They should be able to work with the PPG 12949, and that picture of the paint sample, and a picture of the car.

I know Splash Paints has done a stellar job matching paints just from a picture of the car.

[Bugatti Fan]

David, I note that you live in Derbyshire here in the UK. There may be a Hobbycraft in Derby or Chesterfield who I know carry Tamiya Paints and the Revell Enamels and Aquacolor Acrylics that may not be too far away.

Mr Colours are available in the UK from many different model traders. You just need to look. Zero paints from Hiroboy has been mentioned. They are airbrush ready colours that go on flat. If the colour you want can be mixed by them it will be a good bet. I have used them successfully following on with an automotive acrylic clear gloss from an aerosol.

If you are seriously worried about your vintage Cortina kit then stick with paints designed for models. I don't know how mobile you are but it I were you it might be well worth looking to see where some model shows are taking place at weekends. They are the best place to see various manufacturers paints directly on the trade stands apart from the on line option. Definitely if you are not in a rush to build your model, then hang on until November and get yourself to the IPMS Scale Modelworld Show at Telford. There are shed loads of traders selling all different brands of modelling paints at the show. You will see fantastic model car builds there and get to talk to like minded model makers on the Special Interest Group Stands. Look up the IPMS website and seek out the contact details Richard Middleton the show organiser. He is a friend of mine and fellow car modeller. He used to run the IPMS UK Car and Motorcycle Special Interest Group before taking on the responsibility of Show Manager. He will be able to put you in touch with automotive special interest groups in IPMS. There may even be contact details for those groups on the IPMS UK website.

Edited June 17, 2023 by Bugatti Fan

[Anglia105E]

12 hours ago, ctruss53 said:

They should be able to work with the PPG 12949, and that picture of the paint sample, and a picture of the car.

I know Splash Paints has done a stellar job matching paints just from a picture of the car.

Okay Chad, your interest is much appreciated . . . The photo of my Dad's car is the only one I have, and it is from 1970, so the colour has faded quite a lot. The blue in the photo is much lighter than how I remember the colour of the actual car. For this reason, I cannot show the photo to a paint supplier, as it would be of no use really. I do agree with you that from the PPG 12949 code, and also the BY code, at least one of the paint suppliers should have a mix.

This is assuming that Light Blue was the correct colour . . . and it does seem to be the most likely, based upon info gathered so far.

David

[stitchdup]

17 hours ago, Anglia105E said:

Thank you Chad . . . I do have an airbrush, which I have used with reasonable success, and it is the cheapest Chinese airbrush on the market.

Yes, I have some Zero Paints, and I had forgotten about those, so thanks for the reminder. Hiroboy is the company in UK that supplies Zero Paints.

I thought about getting hold of a second Frog kit from 1962, but they are so rare and expensive . . . so not an option.

I don't have the Ford paint code, and I am not certain which one of three blue colours is the correct one, which prevents me from getting this colour mixed. Usually, I would get my Rolls-Royce colours mixed, but I always have the precise paint code for those, and I use cellulose paint, which is fine over plastic as long as a good Halfords primer is applied first of course.

Anyway, many thanks, and this is all useful info from fellow MCM forum members.

David

David

https://www.uniquecarsandparts.com.au/paint_color_reference_ford_england

[Anglia105E]

3 hours ago, Bugatti Fan said:

David, I note that you live in Derbyshire here in the UK. There may be a Hobbycraft in Derby or Chesterfield who I know carry Tamiya Paints and the Revell Enamels and Aquacolor Acrylics that may not be too far away.

Mr Colours are available in the UK from many different model traders. You just need to look. Zero paints from Hiroboy has been mentioned. They are airbrush ready colours that go on flat. If the colour you want can be mixed by them it will be a good bet. I have used them successfully following on with an automotive acrylic clear gloss from an aerosol.

If you are seriously worried about your vintage Cortina kit then stick with paints designed for models. I don't know how mobile you are but it I were you it might be well worth looking to see where some model shows are taking place at weekends. They are the best place to see various manufacturers paints directly on the trade stands apart from the on line option. Definitely if you are not in a rush to build your model, then hang on until November and get yourself to the IPMS Scale Modelworld Show at Telford. There are shed loads of traders selling all different brands of modelling paints at the show. You will see fantastic model car builds there and get to talk to like minded model makers on the Special Interest Group Stands. Look up the IPMS website and seek out the contact details Richard Middleton the show organiser. He is a friend of mine and fellow car modeller. He used to run the IPMS UK Car and Motorcycle Special Interest Group before taking on the responsibility of Show Manager. He will be able to put you in touch with automotive special interest groups in IPMS. There may even be contact details for those groups on the IPMS UK website.

Hello Noel . . . Yes, there is a Hobbycraft in Chesterfield, and I used to see Tamiya aerosols there when I visited the store. Now that I no longer have a vehicle of my own, I checked the Hobbycraft website before getting a bus to Chesterfield and despite wording my searches in many different ways, there are no Tamiya spray paints coming up on their product list, which seems odd.

The funny thing is, now that you mention it Noel . . . I haven't been to a model show during the past 7 years while I have been building scale model cars seriously. Several times I had a look at the Telford show online, and thought about driving down there. Maybe I could take the train ? Certainly, it would be very interesting to meet the people who really know their stuff when it comes to model building and painting, as well as seeing a vast range of products that might not be available locally.

When it comes to the three types of paint . . . so enamels, acrylics and automotive, I tend to prefer enamels. I understand that the auto paints, and particularly cellulose are not ideal for plastic model car kits, and I have very little experience of acrylics, so I usually go with Humbrol in small tins. Now brush painting is all very well, but of course we cannot hope to achieve a good finish on a scale model car body using that method, which is why I have to deal with the aerosols and airbrush.

Thanks for the details, especially regarding Richard Middleton at IPMS and I shall take a look at their website.

David