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Rust-oleum Issues?


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5 hours ago, Anglia105E said:

Thanks Dave, but it says on the can that this paint is touch dry in 20 minutes and hard dry in 24 hours . . . so I am surprised to hear one week ?

Sounds like overly optimistic marketing. Most enamels in a spray can will have the outer skin on the paint job dry in a few hours if the coats are thin, but for full cure the portion under that skin will take a long time- think in terms of weeks/months rather than hours. 

Can you use Rustoleum spray on your model? Sure, but you'll get superior results that stand up to handling and assembly with Tamiya spray over their primer.

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David, thanks for your reply.

You have certainly done a great job on that very basic Silver Cloud model. The Cloud is a lovely looking car with really nice lines. I guessed that it was the Minicraft/Revell kit sired by Hubley originally.

You must have extensively reworked that kit. I had one given to me years ago that someone had badly built, but never got around to doing anything with it. Then the Minicraft one was released so I did not bother to do anything with it, and must have sold it on at some time. I think a collector wanted it for the original Hubley box rather than the kit!

The kit lines as you said look good as the basis to work up a good model from it.

Building the Cortina standard like your dad's car you started to learn to drive in will give you a nice nostalgic model to put on the shelf.

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8 hours ago, gman said:

Sounds like overly optimistic marketing. Most enamels in a spray can will have the outer skin on the paint job dry in a few hours if the coats are thin, but for full cure the portion under that skin will take a long time- think in terms of weeks/months rather than hours. 

Can you use Rustoleum spray on your model? Sure, but you'll get superior results that stand up to handling and assembly with Tamiya spray over their primer.

Thank you Greg . . . I would agree with you that at the very least one week for paint to cure properly is realistic. It seems sensible to wait, rather than handle the model too soon. Based upon your comment and many others on here, I am leaning towards Tamiya products, unless I decide to go with cellulose over the Halfords white primer. Testing of different paint combinations will take place next week, and I shall be using the underside of the actual 60 year old plastic, as opposed to the spoon tests. Althouh Rust-oleum might be tested, I am unlikely to use it for this particular rare model car.

David

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7 hours ago, bobthehobbyguy said:

There may be some who have some success with Rustoleum but that seems to be the minority.  There have been a lot  more people regretting that they've used it. 

Thank you Bob . . . Wise words indeed !  The odds seem to be stacked against Rust-oleum.

Your advice is much appreciated.

David

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2 hours ago, Bugatti Fan said:

David, thanks for your reply.

You have certainly done a great job on that very basic Silver Cloud model. The Cloud is a lovely looking car with really nice lines. I guessed that it was the Minicraft/Revell kit sired by Hubley originally.

You must have extensively reworked that kit. I had one given to me years ago that someone had badly built, but never got around to doing anything with it. Then the Minicraft one was released so I did not bother to do anything with it, and must have sold it on at some time. I think a collector wanted it for the original Hubley box rather than the kit!

The kit lines as you said look good as the basis to work up a good model from it.

Building the Cortina standard like your dad's car you started to learn to drive in will give you a nice nostalgic model to put on the shelf.

Interesting comments Noel, and I have tried my best to do something significant with the Silver Cloud kit over the past 6 years. Several of these models have parts from the 1955 Franklin Mint diecast Rolls-Royce Silver Cloud I, which has an accurate body shell, and of particular interest to me is the windscreen part as well as the 6-cylinder inline engine, rather than the V8 engine. Getting the Franklin Mint windscreen to fit into the Revell body was a challenge !

The tyres in the Minicraft kit are of a very plastic material, whereas the tyres in the Revell kit are much more of a rubber material, so I use those. Various donor kits supply the parts I need for a build, and then I scratch build any further parts. One Silver Cloud model even has a real leather interior !

The hardest part to source is the Spirit of Ecstasy (Flying Lady) on top of the radiator grille, because the kit part is way too large.

Apart from the Franklin Mint model, the Hubley / Minicraft / Revell kits, there are no other versions of the car in 1:24 scale.

I did mould and cast a Rolls-Royce Silver Cloud body and chassis in resin, from the Revell body and chassis, which turned out surprisingly well.

David

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20 hours ago, Anglia105E said:

Thanks Dave, but it says on the can that this paint is touch dry in 20 minutes and hard dry in 24 hours . . . so I am surprised to hear one week ?

you can touch it in 24 hrs, but i always let mine set a week most of the time. and it also will depend on how many coats on paint you spray on it. i painted one a few days ago with 2 coats and 2 days later complete dry. i guess i should have put that in my post. also its gonna depend on what part of the US you live. i live here in south Louisiana near the Gulf where we have no winter.

 

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I also like to let my paint work sit for a while.

My main primer, Tamiya or Mr Surfacer, is usually cured enough in 30-60 minutes. I'll sometimes wait a day though just to make sure.

Color coat depends on the paint. Tamiya spray cans I will let sit for 24 hours. I like to use Splash Paints as well. Those are ready for clearcoat in a couple hours.

And then clearcoat. This is where I give it plenty of time to cure. I wait 3 days MINIMUM if I am in a hurry. I like to let the clearcoat cure as long as possible though. A week or more.

You can't let your clearcoat cure too long. And the longer you let it cure the better it will polish out.

Edited by ctruss53
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Did not know that Franklyn Mint did a die cast Silver Cloud David.

That certainly helps give you a number of alternative bits to use on your models. I guess you must track odd ones down via eBay and maybe brick a brac auctioneers.

Edited by Bugatti Fan
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18 hours ago, yh70 said:

you can touch it in 24 hrs, but i always let mine set a week most of the time. and it also will depend on how many coats on paint you spray on it. i painted one a few days ago with 2 coats and 2 days later complete dry. i guess i should have put that in my post. also its gonna depend on what part of the US you live. i live here in south Louisiana near the Gulf where we have no winter.

 

Thanks Dave . . . I am in England, UK so from around mid-May the outside temperature goes above 13°C, and spray painting can begin !

These days I usually allow 5 days after applying any topcoats, which seems to be about right.

David

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18 hours ago, ctruss53 said:

I also like to let my paint work sit for a while.

My main primer, Tamiya or Mr Surfacer, is usually cured enough in 30-60 minutes. I'll sometimes wait a day though just to make sure.

Color coat depends on the paint. Tamiya spray cans I will let sit for 24 hours. I like to use Splash Paints as well. Those are ready for clearcoat in a couple hours.

And then clearcoat. This is where I give it plenty of time to cure. I wait 3 days MINIMUM if I am in a hurry. I like to let the clearcoat cure as long as possible though. A week or more.

You can't let your clearcoat cure too long. And the longer you let it cure the better it will polish out.

Thanks Chad . . . I am in England, UK so from around mid-May the outside temperature goes above 13°C, and spray painting can begin !

These days I usually allow 5 days after applying any topcoats, which seems to be about right, before using Tamiya Polishing Compounds.

I shall commence paint testing later this week, and this will include Tamiya paints if I can get hold of them, and also cellulose over Halfords white primer, but the Rust-oleum products will be used with caution on the actual 60 year old plastic.

David

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3 hours ago, Bugatti Fan said:

Did not know that Franklyn Mint did a die cast Diver Cloud David.

That certainly helps give you a number of alternative bits to use on your models. I guess you must track odd ones down via eBay and maybe brick a brac auctioneers.

The Franklin Mint 1955 Rolls-Royce Silver Cloud I is actually a very nice model, except there is no boot lid number plate plinth, like we have here in England. The trunk lid license plate mounting is different for the US version of course. Usually on Ebay there are several of these diecast FM model cars, and the prices are mostly very reasonable. The Spirit of Ecstasy bonnet / hood motif is always missing on the Ebay items, and the roof aerial is also always missing, as these two parts are very fragile.

Franklin Mint also produced the Bentley S1 version of the Silver Cloud I, and their 1929 Rolls-Royce Phantom I is also a very nice model.

David

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55 minutes ago, slusher said:

I would try it on a spare body or hood to see how it works out…

Thanks for the suggestion Carl, but the problem with that approach is that this Frog Cortina is 60 years old vintage plastic, and I don't have another kit that is anywhere near that old. The paint reaction on the much newer plastic would not give me the confidence to apply the paint to the older kit body.

David

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If you are that worried, why not use coating made for plastic kits (like The TS line of Tamiya paints)?  Or even Testors enamel paints?  Those should be safe.

But as you said, there seem to be many different grades of polystyrene used by model companies over the years, so I can't guarantee that they will be safe. Well, the old Testors enamels in my experience never affected any plastic surface.

As for testing, why not do a test on some surface of the kit which will not be visible? Like the bottom of the interior tub, or top surface of the floor?

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20 hours ago, peteski said:

If you are that worried, why not use coating made for plastic kits (like The TS line of Tamiya paints)?  Or even Testors enamel paints?  Those should be safe.

But as you said, there seem to be many different grades of polystyrene used by model companies over the years, so I can't guarantee that they will be safe. Well, the old Testors enamels in my experience never affected any plastic surface.

As for testing, why not do a test on some surface of the kit which will not be visible? Like the bottom of the interior tub, or top surface of the floor?

Yes Peter . . . I shall carry out test applications of any paints on parts of the rare model that will not be visible once assembled. Top of the list might be the Tamiya acrylic paints, then the Halfords enamel primer, followed by the automotive cellulose paints and bottom of the list will be Rust-oleum primer and gloss paint. I am hoping there will be enough surface plastic to carry out the tests ! This is a 1:16 scale kit, although the Cortina is not a large car.

David

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this is is the result after using rustoleum primer and automotive paint.

i noticed this after about a week.  ive been told that maybe the primer wasn't fully dry or the wrong type of primer.

since i still have enough paint left for another try, gonna strip it and try a different primer. 

mire be a little tough going since its been 3 years or so,  really pissed so i put it aside for a while didn know it would be this long.

Cadillac '69/70 firemist color on a Mercedes 500k cabriolet.

 

20210202_070644.thumb.jpg.8948d0b1bfb6a5afc68e79faf36b2b0e.jpg20210202_071228_HDR.thumb.jpg.9d6ad18850a85f58c7c0b0e267d996af.jpg20210202_070431_HDR.thumb.jpg.216724976574ceafbf822311fe168ba7.jpg20210202_070445_HDR.thumb.jpg.e1fcdb692ed5a5a3e84fc53315d43b25.jpg

20210202_070541.jpg

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Sorry to hear that this has happened to your Cadillac paint on the Mercedes kit Russ . . . and here are my thoughts, based on what you have discovered.

Your can of Rust-oleum primer on the left of your photo states ' Stops Rust ', so I would imagine the primer is intended for metal surfaces rather than plastic. Also, it says '2 in 1 - Filler & Sandable ', which implies this is a specialist product. Your next can to the right is an automotive basecoat, which I would guess is a kind of primer itself.

I hope this might help you in some way Russ, but this is my experience of Rust-oleum products during this past week. I have applied Rust-oleum Plastic Primer White over a 60 year old Frog Ford Cortina kit body, and so far there has been no unpleasant reaction between the paint and the plastic. Having said that, I have only applied the paint a few days ago, so not one week as in your case. Also, I have applied Rust-oleum Spa Blue Gloss over the plastic primer white, and after 24 hours drying overnight I haven't noticed any odd reaction . . .

The two Rust-oleum products were applied in a fine mist spray, three coats, with 5 minutes drying between each coat. I shall be getting a bit nervous by the end of this week, having seen what happened to your model car  !

I have never seen that effect with the paint before . . . most odd  !  Here are some photos of my efforts.

David

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100_1128.JPG

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2 hours ago, eldo60 said:

this is is the result after using rustoleum primer and automotive paint.

i noticed this after about a week.  ive been told that maybe the primer wasn't fully dry or the wrong type of primer.

since i still have enough paint left for another try, gonna strip it and try a different primer. 

mire be a little tough going since its been 3 years or so,  really pissed so i put it aside for a while didn know it would be this long.

Cadillac '69/70 firemist color on a Mercedes 500k cabriolet.

 

20210202_070644.thumb.jpg.8948d0b1bfb6a5afc68e79faf36b2b0e.jpg20210202_071228_HDR.thumb.jpg.9d6ad18850a85f58c7c0b0e267d996af.jpg20210202_070431_HDR.thumb.jpg.216724976574ceafbf822311fe168ba7.jpg20210202_070445_HDR.thumb.jpg.e1fcdb692ed5a5a3e84fc53315d43b25.jpg

20210202_070541.jpg

did you key the primer before the colour coats went on? i've had this happen when i skipped that step on filler primers. its like the colour coat shrinks as it dries as it has nothing to hold onto.

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1 hour ago, Anglia105E said:

Sorry to hear that this has happened to your Cadillac paint on the Mercedes kit Russ . . . and here are my thoughts, based on what you have discovered.

Your can of Rust-oleum primer on the left of your photo states ' Stops Rust ', so I would imagine the primer is intended for metal surfaces rather than plastic. Also, it says '2 in 1 - Filler & Sandable ', which implies this is a specialist product. Your next can to the right is an automotive basecoat, which I would guess is a kind of primer itself.

base coat just means the colour needs a clear to shine, its sometimes called 2 part on this side of the pond

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