Ace-Garageguy Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 (edited) You couldn't make this stuff up. The Starliner has been postponed indefinitely because...wait for it...electrical tape used in the wiring harnesses is flammable. And probably (my speculation here) from a low-bidder "offshore" source that failed to comply with the written specs, and zero quality-verification PRIOR to assembling the vehicle with the stuff...both becoming SOP in a variety of industries...absolutely unforgivable in the aerospace sector. The fix? Dissemble the entire thing and re-wire it. EDIT: Oopsies on the parachute system design too, apparently. Guess nobody bothered to look at all the successful systems built previously, but instead opted to reinvent the wheel using oh-so-mo-better CAD/CAE with "engineers" whose shiny little degrees didn't teach them much about reality. Once one of the finest engineering companies on the planet...but hey, I bet they're totally on track with DEI. Edited June 14, 2023 by Ace-Garageguy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeatMan Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 29 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said: You couldn't make this stuff up. The Starliner has been postponed indefinitely because...wait for it...electrical tape used in the wiring harnesses is flammable. And probably (my speculation here) from a low-bidder "offshore" source that failed to comply with the written specs, and zero quality-verification PRIOR to assembling the vehicle with the stuff...both becoming SOP in a variety of industries...absolutely unforgivable in the aerospace sector. The fix? Dissemble the entire thing and re-wire it. EDIT: Oopsies on the parachute system design too, apparently. Guess nobody bothered to look at all the successful systems built previously, but instead opted to reinvent the wheel using oh-so-mo-better CAD/CAE with "engineers" whose shiny little degrees didn't teach them much about reality. Once one of the finest engineering companies on the planet...but hey, I bet they're totally on track with DEI. That's truly disappointing to hear. What ever happened to designations for aircraft use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyK Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 58 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said: Once one of the finest engineering companies on the planet... I was thinking this exact thing while reading your post. oh heaven's to Betsy! happened to them?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted June 14, 2023 Author Share Posted June 14, 2023 39 minutes ago, MeatMan said: That's truly disappointing to hear. What ever happened to designations for aircraft use? That's the point I was making in the third line of the post, though I didn't spell it out. Naturally, for every part or material or process that goes into anything that flies, there are very exact written specifications. Suppliers and subcontractors are expected to comply with the specs, and have to provide documentation attesting to the compliance. But unscrupulous suppliers may very well lie in their documentation, to save a few bucks. Certain "offshore" manufacturing countries are notorious for this, and some years ago (though it was never really publicized), container loads of "aircraft spec" fasteners were found to be of barely hardware-store quality, but shiny and cad-plated so they looked OK, and accompanied by all the necessary documentation. This is why quality-verification is absolutely necessary in the aerospace industry, and overlooked at times by people who naively rely solely on the paperwork as proof, or don't understand there are cheats out there who just don't give a holy damm about anything but a few extra rice-grains of profit. This is also why price-shopping for aftermarket automotive parts is a false economy. Something that costs a small fraction of the cost of an OEM part, but is advertised to be "just as good" or "exact replacement" will never be. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raoul Ross Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 Moar Boing stuff Family-owned aerospace biz throws a wrench in Boeing IP lawsuit Tool was allegedly used incorrectly to attach parts for the SLS and ISS https://www.theregister.com/2023/06/12/boeing_wilson_aerospace_lawsuit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Van Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 BUT....LOOK at that DEI score!!!!!!! Don't fly on their planes......BUT LOOK AT THAT DEI SCORE!!!!! Like him or not Elon Musk said it best.......DEI and ESG are the work of the Devil 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted June 14, 2023 Author Share Posted June 14, 2023 (edited) 9 hours ago, Dave Van said: BUT....LOOK at that DEI score!!!!!!! Don't fly on their planes......BUT LOOK AT THAT DEI SCORE!!!!! Like him or not Elon Musk said it best.......DEI and ESG are the work of the Devil Yup. DEI is the work of dwerps who couldn't figure out which end of a hammer to drive a nail with if their lives depended on it, and who think anyone who can is a knuckle-dragging moron not worthy of their exalted spit...so they think (and I use the term loosely) that ANYONE can do actual work as well as anyone else in their irrational world view. So hiring by gender-ethnicity quotas is all that matters. Relative competence? "What's that?" Skill vs. ruining-everything-you-touch? "Why...OMG...no!!!...bigot !! ANYONE CAN DO ANY JOB AS WELL AS ANYONE ELSE." And they really believe it. The Devil? Yeah, pretty much...and bent on the destruction of anything like a meritocracy, which is ESSENTIAL for a technological society to continue to function. But try to explain that to 'em. Nope. Can't be done. And part of it's the influence of the ingrained everyone-gets-a-trophy mindset. PS: Anyone who responds with a is probably part of the smug, delusional, self-satisfied but inept-in-the-physical-world horde too. Edited June 15, 2023 by Ace-Garageguy CLARITY 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1930fordpickup Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 But we got a deal on Amazon for this tape. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthehobbyguy Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 Well look on the bright side at least they found the issue before a plane crashed because of it. Just think of the money they saved by not inspecting the tape before it was used. As good as the cost cutting measures Norfork by cutting back on train crew and doubling the length of the trains. Just think how much wire is used in modern planes and how much tape is used. Bet it's going to cost a bundle to remove all that tape. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted June 15, 2023 Author Share Posted June 15, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, bobthehobbyguy said: Well look on the bright side at least they found the issue before a plane crashed because of it... Just think how much wire is used in modern planes and how much tape is used. Bet it's going to cost a bundle to remove all that tape. It's a spacecraft. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_Starliner Edited June 15, 2023 by Ace-Garageguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteski Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 Whatever it is, it's airborne. At least, due to its size, it has much less wiring than a Dreamliner. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthehobbyguy Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 In my book it being a space capsule it is even more agregious considering the higher requirements. You don't get a mulligan when something goes wrong and the errors with take up to 7 astronauts out in one error. It's also their first involvement in reusable space capsules. Not a way to instill confidence. Gotta wonder did they use the table on their aircraft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted June 15, 2023 Author Share Posted June 15, 2023 (edited) 31 minutes ago, bobthehobbyguy said: In my book it being a space capsule it is even more egregious considering the higher requirements. You don't get a mulligan when something goes wrong and the errors with take up to 7 astronauts out in one error. It's also their first involvement in reusable space capsules. Not a way to instill confidence. Yup. Interesting how many successful leaps and bounds Mr. Musk's people have made towards renewing the space program, far more cost-effectively than anyone ever before (except for Burt Rutan), but one of the old line major players can't seem to get all their ducks lined up. There are some scary things concerning a subcontractor on Boeing's 737 fleet that haven't been widely publicized too, the older 737s NOT affected by the MCAS software/sensor issues. Major structural stuff resulting from just awful tooling that wasn't anywhere even close to as-specified, but parts were accepted anyway, and incorporated into the aircraft (anybody see a pattern emerging here?). Supposedly it's a non-issue at this point, but every time I board a 737 I kinda wonder if I'll get home. 🤞 Edited June 15, 2023 by Ace-Garageguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted June 15, 2023 Author Share Posted June 15, 2023 (edited) Dumbguy double post. Looks like I might have the cred for a job at Boeing. Edited June 15, 2023 by Ace-Garageguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89AKurt Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 Welcome to the New Normal. Seems like everything is becoming a cluster, the more advanced technically humans get, and the more complicated bureaucracy gets, the worse it gets. The home construction industry is driving me nuts now, the codes are written by lawyers, the building departments are getting more onerous...... oh wait, wrong forum thread. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike C Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 NASA put men on the Moon with the lowest bidders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted June 15, 2023 Author Share Posted June 15, 2023 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Mike C said: NASA put men on the Moon with the lowest bidders. The low bidders weren't "offshore", and they didn't get their bids lower by substituting hardware-store-grade parts. The American subcontractors FOLLOWED THE SPECS, and the people at NASA at the time DOUBLE CHECKED EVERYTHING. Edited June 15, 2023 by Ace-Garageguy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted June 15, 2023 Author Share Posted June 15, 2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike C Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 39 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said: The low bidders weren't "offshore", and they didn't get their bids lower by substituting hardware-store-grade parts. The American subcontractors FOLLOWED THE SPECS, and the people at NASA at the time DOUBLE CHECKED EVERYTHING. Yeah, I know that. Everything was made in the USA back then for aerospace projects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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