Artists that should be in the Rock n' Roll Hall of fame.

[SfanGoch]

5 hours ago, iamsuperdan said:

 

No, she's not a rock artist. This is just her doing something a little different for one album. 

 

By that standard, Metallica should be in the country music hall of fame because they have a couple of songs with slide guitar and b-benders.

Hell, the criteria for what defines Rock n' Roll has been diluted to the point that there is no criteria. All the rap, hip-hop and country artists included are evidence of this. Might as well add Pat Boone. He recorded a pseudo-metal album in 1997.

The names of groups/artists which were included are interesting. Most, if not all, are the exact definition of obscure. Obscurity definitely doesn't merit inclusion in the RRHOF. These groups aren't well known for a good reason. It reminds me of people who wear band tee shirts for the "cool" factor but have never listened to, or could even name, a single song by the group(s). There were hundreds of Midwest garage bands in the '60s. They had their local followings but weren't influential by any means. Groups such as MC5 and the Dictators should be inducted because they both had an impact and influenced RnR. The Dictators, along with the Ramones and the Modern Lovers, were the most influential proto-punk/punk bands. If it weren't for them, there wouldn't have been the Sex Pistols, Clash, etc.

[atomicholiday]

3 hours ago, SfanGoch said:

Might as well add Pat Boone. He recorded a pseudo-metal album in 1997.

 

Have you ever heard that album?   A friend of mine picked it up out of curiosity years ago.   If you haven't heard it, check it out.  It's hilarious! 

[SfanGoch]

I listened to it when it was released. You're right, it is hilarious. It's heavy metal meets schmoozy lounge lizard act playing in Bartini Bar & Lounge in Babylon, N.Y. on a Thursday night.

[stitchdup]

On 8/22/2023 at 11:39 PM, Can-Con said:

BUT, do you know 5440, Big Sugar, Spirit of the West, Saga, Strange Advance, Skinny Puppy, Wide Mouth Mason, Theory of a Deadman, Spoons, The Sheepdogs, The Partland Brothers, Pukka Orchestra, Prozzak, Moxy Fruvous, , , ,Killer Dwarfs???  , ,

are those music groups or the 17th century accused in court list?

[Matt Bacon]

7 hours ago, SfanGoch said:

The Dictators, along with the Ramones and the Modern Lovers, were the most influential proto-punk/punk bands. If it weren't for them, there wouldn't have been the Sex Pistols, Clash, etc.

Not sure Lydon and co would agree..... now if you'd said "New York Dolls...."

best,

M.

[Earl Marischal]

1 hour ago, stitchdup said:

are those music groups or the 17th century accused in court list?

I made the mistake of buying a Saga album. Played it once before disposing of it.

I also had the misfortune to see Killer Dwarfs as a support band. They were embarrassingly bad. When the singer did the “point the mic at the audience” bit, there was complete silence…

steve

[Matt Bacon]

And everyone should listen to Sonic's Rendezvous Band....

M.

[iamsuperdan]

4 minutes ago, Earl Marischal said:

I made the mistake of buying a Saga album. Played it once before disposing of it.

I also had the misfortune to see Killer Dwarfs as a support band. They were embarrassingly bad. When the singer did the “point the mic at the audience” bit, there was complete silence…

steve

What?!

 

Saga definitely had some duds, but they had some killer tracks too. Scratching The Surface, Wind Him Up, On The Loose

And Killer Dwarfs were an awesome band in their prime! We Stand Alone, Keep The Spirit Alive, Dirty Weapons, Stand Tall. 

[1972coronet]

On 8/24/2023 at 7:00 AM, Matt Bacon said:

And everyone should listen to Sonic's Rendezvous Band....

M.

Ron Asheton's New Order as well. Lovely low-fi recordings of Ron, Dennis "Machinegun" Thompson, Jimmy Ricca , and a couple of  different singers. 

[Can-Con]

On 8/24/2023 at 11:10 AM, iamsuperdan said:

What?!

 

Saga definitely had some duds, but they had some killer tracks too. Scratching The Surface, Wind Him Up, On The Loose

And Killer Dwarfs were an awesome band in their prime! We Stand Alone, Keep The Spirit Alive, Dirty Weapons, Stand Tall. 

I wouldn't give Steve too hard of a time, Dan. After all, we grew up with that stuff and honestly, I wouldn't bother with either band myself. Never really cared for Saga and metal just isn't my thing at all. 

I had just listed a bunch of Canadian bands I could remember hearing before that I knew had done well and not necessarily bands I liked personally. 

[Can-Con]

On 8/24/2023 at 3:39 AM, SfanGoch said:

Hell, the criteria for what defines Rock n' Roll has been diluted to the point that there is no criteria. All the rap, hip-hop and country artists included are evidence of this. Might as well add Pat Boone. He recorded a pseudo-metal album in 1997.

The names of groups/artists which were included are interesting. Most, if not all, are the exact definition of obscure. Obscurity definitely doesn't merit inclusion in the RRHOF. These groups aren't well known for a good reason. It reminds me of people who wear band tee shirts for the "cool" factor but have never listened to, or could even name, a single song by the group(s). There were hundreds of Midwest garage bands in the '60s. They had their local followings but weren't influential by any means. Groups such as MC5 and the Dictators should be inducted because they both had an impact and influenced RnR. The Dictators, along with the Ramones and the Modern Lovers, were the most influential proto-punk/punk bands. If it weren't for them, there wouldn't have been the Sex Pistols, Clash, etc.

The bands I listed ,Joe, wern't "garage bands". They all had record deals, toured and put out albums. 

There's a lot more music up here in Canada then just Brian Adams, Celine Dion and Rush. 😁

But, you are absolutely correct, none of the bands I named deserve to be in the Hall of Fame. 

[SfanGoch]

I wasn't referring to the bands you mentioned, Steve. I was only pointing out that there are hundreds of unknown bands whose fans overestimate their relative importance in the scheme of things. There were/are bands from my neighborhood in Brooklyn with pedigrees going back to the early '70s, some of which were signed by major labels; but, never made an impact. The exceptions are Eugene Pitt & The Jive Five, heavy metal bass player Rik Fox (Richard Suligowski) and Kiss, who all are from Greenpoint/Williamsbug.

BTW, I saw the Spoons at Rumrunner in Oyster Bay, L.I. on April 3, 1987 and Skinny Puppy at the Kitchen on W. 19th Street in Manhattan on July 14 of the same year. Skinny Puppy put on a slamming show.

[Can-Con]

1 hour ago, SfanGoch said:

I wasn't referring to the bands you mentioned, Steve. I was only pointing out that there are hundreds of unknown bands whose fans overestimate their relative importance in the scheme of things. There were/are bands from my neighborhood in Brooklyn with pedigrees going back to the early '70s, some of which were signed by major labels; but, never made an impact. The exceptions are Eugene Pitt & The Jive Five, heavy metal bass player Rik Fox (Richard Suligowski) and Kiss, who all are from Greenpoint/Williamsbug.

BTW, I saw the Spoons at Rumrunner in Oyster Bay, L.I. on April 3, 1987 and Skinny Puppy at the Kitchen on W. 19th Street in Manhattan on July 14 of the same year. Skinny Puppy put on a slamming show.

Pretty cool Joe. I'd love to have seen The Spoons but I doubt I will, not very many bands get this far east these days. 

 

Edited August 26, 2023 by Can-Con

[slusher]

On 8/21/2023 at 12:32 PM, atomicholiday said:

Quiet Riot.  They were the first metal band to top the charts.  That’s a pretty big achievement.

I love quet Riot and Kiss!   Didn’t Kiss get in?

[slusher]

I was reading the list of hall of fame members. Everyone has their opinions and I am 100% fine with that. I saw Kiss was in. Quiet Riot are in the heavy metal hall of fame. I don’t know why Kenny Rogers and Eddie Money is not in there. I didn’t see Supertramp that surprised me.

[SfanGoch]

This goes back to what criteria are used to define Rock'n'Roll and qualifications to be inducted into the RRHOF. Rogers was never what could be defined as a rock performer. He was a member of a jazz group, the Bobby Doyle Three. Incidentally, Bobby Doyle was a member of the Slades, who recorded the original version of the classic "You Cheated" in 1958, covered later that year by the Shields, featuring Frankie Ervin on lead and music legends Jesse Belvin (who wrote "Earth Angel") and Johnny "Guitar" Watson. He later joined the folk group, the New Christie Minstrels after which he, and some members of the Minstrels, formed the First Edition. Despite its rock origins, it transformed into a country music/pop/easy listening music group.

Dolly Parton's induction into the RRHOF defies logic. She's been a country/bluegrass performer her entire career. Sonny Burgess has better bona fides as a rock'n'roller that Dolly. So does legendary tenor saxophonist Illinois Jacquet. The RRHOF seems to grasp at straws when considering membership. The majority of inductees are from the 1970s forward. That's because the selection committee seems to choose groups from their listening experiences. Although it has an early influence section, it is woefully underrepresented. There are dozens of artists from the 1940s through the 1950s who have made an impact and contributed to what would eventually evolve into Rock'n'Roll music. I won't bore the audience here about doo wop or vocal group harmony since most here don't know nuthin' about either. Both of those genres lead directly to what we know as rock'n'roll. RRHOF ignores these too, even though a large number of the artists had a major influence on rock's musical style and identity. Without doo wop, there wouldn't be any Beach Boys or Beatles. Without Screamin' Jay Hawkins, there would be no shock rock, Alice Cooper, Black Sabbath, Cramps or even Led Zeppelin.

Another artist who deserves to be in the RRHOF. Champion Jack Dupree on the ivories with Sticks McGhee swinging a scorching axe. You ain't a rock'n'roller if you don't dig it.

 

[slusher]

1 hour ago, SfanGoch said:

This goes back to what criteria are used to define Rock'n'Roll and qualifications to be inducted into the RRHOF. Rogers was never what could be defined as a rock performer. He was a member of a jazz group, the Bobby Doyle Three. Incidentally, Bobby Doyle was a member of the Slades, who recorded the original version of the classic "You Cheated" in 1958, covered later that year by the Shields, featuring Frankie Ervin on lead and music legends Jesse Belvin (who wrote "Earth Angel") and Johnny "Guitar" Watson. He later joined the folk group, the New Christie Minstrels after which he, and some members of the Minstrels, formed the First Edition. Despite its rock origins, it transformed into a country music/pop/easy listening music group.

Dolly Parton's induction into the RRHOF defies logic. She's been a country/bluegrass performer her entire career. Sonny Burgess has better bona fides as a rock'n'roller that Dolly. So does legendary tenor saxophonist Illinois Jacquet. The RRHOF seems to grasp at straws when considering membership. The majority of inductees are from the 1970s forward. That's because the selection committee seems to choose groups from their listening experiences. Although it has an early influence section, it is woefully underrepresented. There are dozens of artists from the 1940s through the 1950s who have made an impact and contributed to what would eventually evolve into Rock'n'Roll music. I won't bore the audience here about doo wop or vocal group harmony since most here don't know nuthin' about either. Both of those genres lead directly to what we know as rock'n'roll. RRHOF ignores these too, even though a large number of the artists had a major influence on rock's musical style and identity. Without doo wop, there wouldn't be any Beach Boys or Beatles. Without Screamin' Jay Hawkins, there would be no shock rock, Alice Cooper, Black Sabbath, Cramps or even Led Zeppelin.

Another artist who deserves to be in the RRHOF. Champion Jack Dupree on the ivories with Sticks McGhee swinging a scorching axe. You ain't a rock'n'roller if you don't dig it.

 

Thanks Joe, I understand what you’re saying.  Maybe the songwriting and years in the music business got Dolly in but I don’t understand Willie Nelson. He was part of the western sound that Waylon Jennings started…

[SfanGoch]

Honestly Carl, I don't believe you do. Nelson and Jennings are/were straight up country artists like Dolly. Neither should be in the RRHOF. The "outlaw country" movement" started by Waylon Jennings is still country music without even the most tenuous connection to rock. Groups like New Riders of the Purple Sage, Commander Cody and His Lost Planet Airmen, Poco, Marshall Tucker, Charlie Daniels and other like groups might have been called rock bands; however, they fit into the country category. Yeah, these bands were popular back in the late '60s and later; but, the style itself was popular with weedheads and stoners for the "cool factor". It's the same reason they started to listen to Papa John Creach and James Cotton. Most, if not all, never heard of either until major rock acts like Cream included them as opening acts in various concerts. Hippies liked to give the impression that they were connoisseurs of eclectic music. Truth is, they were just being pretentious and full of c_rap. I've been to a lot of Grateful Dead shows where these groups played as opening acts and also saw Commander Cody and NRPS on the same bill at the legendary Schaefer Music Festival concert series at Central Park in August '74. Tickets cost two bucks. Even at that, they wuz country artists at heart and style.

[Doug 1061]

Zappa.

[Doug 1061]

Zappa.

[SfanGoch]

He was posthumously inducted in 1995.

[Can-Con]

8 hours ago, SfanGoch said:

Honestly Carl, I don't believe you do. Nelson and Jennings are/were straight up country artists like Dolly. Neither should be in the RRHOF. The "outlaw country" movement" started by Waylon Jennings is still country music without even the most tenuous connection to rock. Groups like New Riders of the Purple Sage, Commander Cody and His Lost Planet Airmen, Poco, Marshall Tucker, Charlie Daniels and other like groups might have been called rock bands; however, they fit into the country category. Yeah, these bands were popular back in the late '60s and later; but, the style itself was popular with weedheads and stoners for the "cool factor". It's the same reason they started to listen to Papa John Creach and James Cotton. Most, if not all, never heard of either until major rock acts like Cream included them as opening acts in various concerts. Hippies liked to give the impression that they were connoisseurs of eclectic music. Truth is, they were just being pretentious and full of c_rap. I've been to a lot of Grateful Dead shows where these groups played as opening acts and also saw Commander Cody and NRPS on the same bill at the legendary Schaefer Music Festival concert series at Central Park in August '74. Tickets cost two bucks. Even at that, they wuz country artists at heart and style.

I've been wondering if the "crossover" element had something to do with it? [although it really shouldn't] 

A lot of country got on the top 40 lists in the '70s and '80s. most notably Kenny and Dolly's "Islands in the Stream" which spent 16 or 17 weeks in the top 40. BTW, that was written by The BeeGees and, IIRC, produced my Lionel Ritchie. [I think]

But, yea, if Dolly's in then I think Kenny should also be at least nominated as he was at least originally a rock act with "The First Edition". 

[SfanGoch]

Induction to the RRHOF has similarities to cars and military aircraft. Consider all of the cars which started out as sports models. Small, fast and maneuverable. The T-Bird started out this way. Then, the braintrust at Ford ford thought it was a great idea to re-engineer it into the bloated land yacht it finally morphed into in the '70s. The F-16 Viper was originally designed as an air superiority day fighter. It didn't take long for it to be turned into a multi-mission aircraft, sort of a flying Swiss Army knife. Unfortunately, that's what the RRHOF has turned into.

The RRHOF has strayed from its original mission statement and has become a purely commercial enterprise shilling its self-importance as the self-anointed stewards of Rock'n'Roll and, as an added bonus, hawking crummy souvenirs to cheapen things. Hard Rock Cafe is is similar, more of a cheesy theme restaurant serving overpriced, lousy food and drinks catering to black-socks-with-sandals wearing tourists with some memorabilia mounted on the walls to impart a faux authenticity.To quote Chester A. Riley, "What a revoltin' development this is!"

[1972coronet]

Country & Western and Bluegrass infused with R&R dates to the likes of The Monkees ( Mike Nesmith ) , and The Byrds ( Mr. Spaceman being an early example , followed by 1967's Younger Than Yesterday (first appearance of then-session player Clarence White) and every album since).

Here's one of my favourite songs from, IMO, the Byrds best album :

 

 

[Rocking Rodney Rat]

Bad Brains

Husker Du

Minutemen

X

NY Dolls

MC5

Sonics

Mudhoney (Mark Arm coined the word 'grunge')

....and many more influential bands that will never get their due....

The R&R HoF ignores punk rock...(and most punkers don't give a BLAH_BLAH_BLAH_BLAH about the Hall). -RRR