Need Primer Help

[Horrorshow]

I stopped using Rustoleum primer, I found this one, not sure if it can be used on plastic.

[JollySipper]

It CAN be used on plastic, but the sandable primer HAS to be sanded to get it smooth. I would recommend the filler primer from DC instead...... it dries smooth, so it's not always necessary to sand it.......

[Zoom Zoom]

Can't answer your question directly because I don't use that product.

How obsessive are you about your final finishes on your models? How many do you build over the course of a year?

It's hard for me to wrap my mind around builders insistent on using ginormous "inexpensive" cans of various automotive primer/colors when there are amazing products out there for hobbyists to use. They save $$ in the end because they don't cause issues with plastic crazing and they tend to lay down so smooth you don't need to do all that much sanding, if any. If you follow directions you're far more likely to get a really nice finish (from average to show-winning) w/o multiple rounds of stripping/re-finishing. I've seen countless examples of this scenario play out. I joke about model car guys doing this repeatedly so they can brag about how many dates they have had with a stripper in the past month 🤣

I may be known as the airbrush guy but I love Tamiya and Mr. Hobby rattle can primers/surfacers and nearly every project I work on I use them. They do their respective jobs admirably, making life easier in the long run. You spend less time on the paint finish leaving more time for detailing work. 

[Horrorshow]

1 hour ago, Zoom Zoom said:

Can't answer your question directly because I don't use that product.

How obsessive are you about your final finishes on your models? How many do you build over the course of a year?

It's hard for me to wrap my mind around builders insistent on using ginormous "inexpensive" cans of various automotive primer/colors when there are amazing products out there for hobbyists to use. They save $$ in the end because they don't cause issues with plastic crazing and they tend to lay down so smooth you don't need to do all that much sanding, if any. If you follow directions you're far more likely to get a really nice finish (from average to show-winning) w/o multiple rounds of stripping/re-finishing. I've seen countless examples of this scenario play out. I joke about model car guys doing this repeatedly so they can brag about how many dates they have had with a stripper in the past month 🤣

I may be known as the airbrush guy but I love Tamiya and Mr. Hobby rattle can primers/surfacers and nearly every project I work on I use them. They do their respective jobs admirably, making life easier in the long run. You spend less time on the paint finish leaving more time for detailing work. 

I have switched to Tamiya primers but they don’t have a black one 

[bobss396]

Up until recently, I swore by DC and professional body shop primers. I gave up on cheap primers a long time ago. Plasikote made a good one, haven't seen it in eons.

Now I'm Mr. Hobby all the way, they also make a black primer. Also Tamiya Fine Surface white. These work with lacquer top coats and go on smooth. Minimal sanding is required in most cases.   

[Mike 1017]

I just used it Friday. It works as well as anything else that I have used. Mine is a white primer.

Mike

[Zoom Zoom]

On 10/8/2023 at 7:31 AM, Horrorshow said:

I have switched to Tamiya primers but they don’t have a black one 

Mr. Hobby Mr. Black Surfacer 1500 in a rattle can...or jar for airbrushing. It's amazing.

[Zoom Zoom]

On 10/8/2023 at 8:35 AM, bobss396 said:

Up until recently, I swore by DC and professional body shop primers. I gave up on cheap primers a long time ago. Plasikote made a good one, haven't seen it in eons.

Now I'm Mr. Hobby all the way, they also make a black primer. Also Tamiya Fine Surface white. These work with lacquer top coats and go on smooth. Minimal sanding is required in most cases.   

Tamiya has a new Base White in a small rattle can. It's amazing. Very pigment-dense, covers multiple colors of plastic with ease, has a light sheen, it dries so incredibly smooth. I wish they sold it in a larger size can. 

Edited October 10, 2023 by Zoom Zoom

[StevenGuthmiller]

I use Duplicolor primers all of the time.

As a matter of fact, that’s pretty much all that I use.

Never been impressed with Tamiya, and I can’t see spending a bunch of money on primer, so even though Duplicolor is really no longer cheap either, it’s what I’ve become used to, and it’s designed to be used with automotive lacquers, which is my paint of choice, so I see no reason to change.

Granted, they can be a little hotter than hobby primers, depending on the plastic, but as long as you know that going in and adjust for it, it’s not a problem.

I, like “JollySipper” recommend a different Duplicolor primer, but not quite the same one.

I prefer Duplicolor “Primer Sealer”, but I use plenty of the sandable primers as well.

As a matter of fact, their black sandable primer is pretty much all I use for anything I’m painting flat black.

 

 

 

Steve

[Dpate]

1 hour ago, Zoom Zoom said:

Tamiya has a new Base White in a small rattle can. It's amazing. Very pigment-dense, covers multiple colors of plastic with ease, has a light sheet, it dries so incredibly smooth. I wish they sold it in a larger size can. 

Mr hobby has a base white too 

[Zoom Zoom]

52 minutes ago, Dpate said:

Mr hobby has a base white too 

It's quite good, but IMHO Tamiya's base white is even better. Hardly anyone even knows it exists. 

[Dave G.]

13 hours ago, Zoom Zoom said:

Mr. Hobby Mr. Black Surfacer 1500 in a rattle can...or jar for airbrushing. It's amazing.

Yes ! I even decant the 1000, then further thin with Mr Leveling thinner and airbrush it. It comes out super smooth. Smooth enough I spray Tamiya LP black lacquer over it and sand nothing. I thin the LP with the Leveling thinner as well. The finish is gorgeous, I just did fenders for a 34 Ford pickup this morning in black in fact. Really the finish is beyond what one might expect for a stock truck.

[bobss396]

12 hours ago, Zoom Zoom said:

It's quite good, but IMHO Tamiya's base white is even better. Hardly anyone even knows it exists. 

I will look for it. I see that Tamiya does have some new paints out. I picked up a TS82 rubber black and a TS100 semi-gloss gray recently.

[bobss396]

I still use DC primers on chassis priming and on other details. I will probably buy more down the road. Their DS104 black primer is still a good one. 

[StevenGuthmiller]

Back to Duplicolor primer.

 

The top for this '64 Bonneville is nothing more than straight Duplicolor "sandable black" primer.

I shot it from a distance to add a little "grain", but if shot as normal, it dries very smooth, as do all of the Duplicolor primers.

 

Body was primed with Duplicolor "primer sealer".

 

No primer sanding, but the clear coats were cut and polished.

 

 

 

 

Steve

 

 

 

[Monty]

17 hours ago, Zoom Zoom said:

Tamiya has a new Base White in a small rattle can. It's amazing. Very pigment-dense, covers multiple colors of plastic with ease, has a light sheet, it dries so incredibly smooth. I wish they sold it in a larger size can. 

I'm not all that familiar with Tamiya products.  Can you elaborate on the difference(s) between this and their Fine Surface Primer?

[Ace-Garageguy]

Listen to Mr. Downey (Zoom Zoom) and Mr. Guthmiller. They use different materials and techniques, but their finished work is exceptional either way.

If you're looking for valid advice, weight the advice most heavily from people who can demonstrate the soundness of said advice.

That said, I use both Duplicolor and Timiya primers, as I find they're both excellent products, and they do different things well.

Case in point: it's hard to beat Duplicolor sandable or high-build primers over extensive bodywork. As the majority of my models feature heavy mods, the fact that Duplicolor primers are intended to go over real-car bodywork and fillers means they do an excellent job of "holding down" sand-scratch swelling in both lacquer-based spot-putties and polyester ("bondo") fillers.

In some cases, I'll use the finer-grained Tamiya primers over the Duplicolor, maybe to get a brighter surface, or to get a primer layer under the final color that requires less sanding just prior to paint.

Sometimes, where the whole model is heavy bodywork, and where there's no danger of obliterating fine details, I'll even use 2K urethane primer/surfacer made for real cars. It was the ideal solution on this build.

Something to remember: every modeling situation is slightly different, and what works extremely well in some cases may just not be the best material or procedure in others.

But the real bottom line is that, if you want exceptional paint jobs, somewhere along the line you have to put out exceptional effort.

There's no magic combination that will give you perfect results every time, and even those of us who've "mastered" the art of painting still find the need to do something over...occasionally multiple times...to get it right.

The willingness to put forth the effort it takes to get exceptional results is the single indispensable tool...whether in model building, or any other endeavour in life.

Edited October 11, 2023 by Ace-Garageguy

[Bill Eh?]

1 hour ago, Monty said:

I'm not all that familiar with Tamiya products.  Can you elaborate on the difference(s) between this and their Fine Surface Primer?

Here's a pic of three Tamiya spray cans. I'm not sure if my order of introduction is correct. I believe they started with Grey Surface Primer (rhs), followed by the Fine White Surface Primer (lhs), and then the Grey Fine Surface Primer (ctr). All are good for use on plastic or metal surfaces.

[Monty]

Thanks.  I was asking Zoom Zoom how this new Base White in a shorter can differed from Fine White Surface Primer.  

[Zoom Zoom]

2 hours ago, Monty said:

I'm not all that familiar with Tamiya products.  Can you elaborate on the difference(s) between this and their Fine Surface Primer?

Base white has more pigment than the white fine surface primer for rapid coverage of multiple (any) colors of plastic. It also dries smoother with a bit of gloss. My best example of the base white usage was on this build; the body was molded in white. The separate engine compartment was molded in black. It needed to be body color, and I was painting the body in a metallic blue. I primed the engine compartment in base white and was able to then paint it along with the body panels in blue with no mismatch. Base white was the way to go. 

[Zoom Zoom]

4 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

Back to Duplicolor primer.

 

The top for this '64 Bonneville is nothing more than straight Duplicolor "sandable black" primer.

I shot it from a distance to add a little "grain", but if shot as normal, it dries very smooth, as do all of the Duplicolor primers.

 

Body was primed with Duplicolor "primer sealer".

 

No primer sanding, but the clear coats were cut and polished.

 

 

 

 

Steve

 

 

 

There is no argument you have absolutely mastered the use of this paint. You probably are of the roughly 1% that don't really need some of the hobby products I suggest for builders that are not able to get your results and end up frustrated with the whole process. I'm trying to help them get into a mindset of trying products made for hobbyists that have a track record of excellent results. Your models are absolutely outstanding, carry on! Your approach to modeling is admirable, you slowly, methodically tackle each issue along the way. Most modelers don't have that level of patience. They often fail to realize how much mileage under one's belt is required to get to where you consistently get great results. 

[R. Thorne]

21 hours ago, Zoom Zoom said:

Tamiya has a new Base White in a small rattle can. It's amazing. Very pigment-dense, covers multiple colors of plastic with ease, has a light sheen, it dries so incredibly smooth. I wish they sold it in a larger size can. 

Mr. Hobby has a similar base white in a 180ml can.

[Dpate]

1 hour ago, Zoom Zoom said:

There is no argument you have absolutely mastered the use of this paint. You probably are of the roughly 1% that don't really need some of the hobby products I suggest for builders that are not able to get your results and end up frustrated with the whole process. I'm trying to help them get into a mindset of trying products made for hobbyists that have a track record of excellent results. Your models are absolutely outstanding, carry on! Your approach to modeling is admirable, you slowly, methodically tackle each issue along the way. Most modelers don't have that level of patience. They often fail to realize how much mileage under one's belt is required to get to where you consistently get great results. 

You’re doing the right thing. Mr hobby’s primers are  top notch, and besides Tamiya the only other primer that rivals it is titan hobby’s primer. I don’t use Tamiya because it’s no longer compatible with scalefinises paints. Mr hobbies primers work with everything I own, and basically fool proof, and with leveling thinner there is no need for anything else for an airbrush user. If all you could use is spray bombs, and get more bang for my buck? I would only use titan hobby’s primer as it’s 400mL a can for $13-$15 and rivals Tamiya, and Mr hobby. 

[StevenGuthmiller]

8 hours ago, Zoom Zoom said:

There is no argument you have absolutely mastered the use of this paint. You probably are of the roughly 1% that don't really need some of the hobby products I suggest for builders that are not able to get your results and end up frustrated with the whole process. I'm trying to help them get into a mindset of trying products made for hobbyists that have a track record of excellent results. Your models are absolutely outstanding, carry on! Your approach to modeling is admirable, you slowly, methodically tackle each issue along the way. Most modelers don't have that level of patience. They often fail to realize how much mileage under one's belt is required to get to where you consistently get great results. 

Well, I don’t know about all that, but my interpretation is that this can all be chalked up as just being a matter of differing philosophies.

 

One philosophy is to work to obtain a perfect, or nearly flawless paint job through a very particular use of specific materials and, quite honestly, a high degree of skill.

Absolutely nothing wrong with that philosophy whatsoever.

But, as we all know, that skill can be years in the making.

Nobody picks up a spray can or an air brush as a novice and instantly starts spraying flawless paint jobs, no matter how high the quality of the materials.

The materials are secondary to know-how when it comes to success with painting models.

Spraying a perfect paint job was a skill that I was personally never able to perfect with any consistency over my 50+ years of building, so I became a student of philosophy #2.

 

Philosophy #2 states that you don’t need to possess some form of enhanced skill set or follow a rigid materials list.

All you need is the desire and the willingness to put forth the effort of some extra elbow grease at the end of the paint process.

I don’t worry too much about the brand of primer or what it’s particular properties are other than it’s ability to seal against the particular paint that I use.

A few coats of primer, of whatever type is appropriate for your paint, with no sanding unless it becomes necessary due to debris or orange peel, basically the same approach for the color, and then however many coats of the clear that you prefer to be certain to protect the color from what I’m long windedly eluding to..... The polishing process.

My point being that you don’t have to be a painting wizard with years of experience and a catalog of high end materials to get fabulous finishes.

All that you need is the willingness to put in some time at the end to polish the paint to the degree of fabulousness that you desire.

 

As is often the case, at least as I see it, when people begin describing their processes to someone who’s either new, or just not sure of the path that they want to follow, with a multitude of different products and instructions, ie, use this primer, thinned by so much with this thinner, sand between each coat, use this paint, sprayed at this pressure, mixed to this viscosity, etc, etc, etc, it just fuels nothing but confusion, especially to someone who’s not especially up on all of this stuff.

Personally, when I read a painting description that starts to get into the weeds, my eyes just glaze over and I tune out, as certainly any hobbyist who’s a little green will also.

In the end, the  advice that I give anyone who’s struggling with paint is that there’s more than one way to skin a cat.

You don’t “need” to concentrate on all of the latest products and techniques.

It is absolutely possible to achieve a show quality paint job with nothing more than mediocre priming and painting results, with finish cutting and polishing at the end.

 

Go to any group or forum and ask the question of what primer, paint or clear you should use, and invariably you will get 150 different enthusiastic answers.

You can either try to weed through all of that information and pray that you might find a set of materials and techniques that lead you to the goal of a superior finish, or you can “take the easy way out” and resign yourself to the fact that some cutting and polishing at the end will lead you to the same, or even superior results without having to concern yourself with all of the minutiae of a thousand different suggestions.

 

This is  by no means a condemnation of you personally Bob, or your suggestions which are obviously designed to help, as are everyone else’s, but I just felt that in lieu of the OP’s question of whether or not the primer he asked about was compatible with plastic, it was my responsibility to answer the question directly.

We can all bombard him with a thousand different suggestions, which in the end are nothing more than our personal opinions, or we can try to help him along the path he has chosen with information that will help guide him down that particular path.

 

Believe me, I understand the reaction of the desire to “get people in the right mindset”.

Problem is, “that mindset” might be the right one for some, but who are we to decide what’s “right” for everyone else.

There’s a thousand different paths that can all diverge on a single ending point, and while some of them might seem as if they’re going the long way around, or in completely the wrong direction for some, for others, they might be the most direct route.

 

 

Steve

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by StevenGuthmiller

[bobss396]

20 odd years back, I would scour the earth for cheap primers. Bondo brand, Bright Beauty was carried by Napa and worked with lacquers, their clear was quite good. Plastikote had a good basic gray one, Krylon was not so good. I would endure what I got out of the cans and sand away.

The only Duplicolor primer I can find is the high-build. Which does not really cover fine details like I thought it would. The Mr. Hobby one I use is a high-build but the same story as Duplicolor. I have used a professional series by SEM and Transtar which are good ones.

So far Mr. Hobby and Tamiya Fine Surface products lay down to a fine finish, I may have to wet-sand quickly with 2400 grit before going top coat.