Coming Soon from Atomic City's JoHan line of new kits

[thatz4u]

Atomic City was in business before they obtained the JoHan llc rights...

[Ron Hamilton]

The pricing of the resin 66 Fury lll Convertible is not too hateful. Have you seen the starting and finishing pricing of a mint kit, promo, or clean built up of one of these? Unbuilt resin has gone up in pricing.  I have a few pieces in the basement that are going for $200 up in the secondary market. Can we say Unbuilt/ clean kits from the 60s /70s, as well as resin? The market spoke, and the Hardtop isn't going to be cheap either. I plan to buy one when thyre available, to go with my other full size 60s Mopars.

 

[StevenGuthmiller]

So how do you go about ordering something from them.

I could sure use one of the '69 Roadrunner chrome trees that they mentioned in the video.

That would certainly help me get a much earlier start on my Roadrunner project!

 

 

 

Steve

[thatz4u]

11 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

So how do you go about ordering something from them.

I could sure use one of the '69 Roadrunner chrome trees that they mentioned in the video.

That would certainly help me get a much earlier start on my Roadrunner project!

 

 

 

Steve

Steve, call Doug at the number listed...they're open today until 4PM Eastern time.....tell him Al Rich said to call. 

[mikos]

Atomic City now owns the Johan LLC rights that Okey used to own?

[mikos]

On 8/10/2024 at 8:00 AM, Ron Hamilton said:

The pricing of the resin 66 Fury lll Convertible is not too hateful. Have you seen the starting and finishing pricing of a mint kit, promo, or clean built up of one of these? Unbuilt resin has gone up in pricing.  I have a few pieces in the basement that are going for $200 up in the secondary market. Can we say Unbuilt/ clean kits from the 60s /70s, as well as resin? The market spoke, and the Hardtop isn't going to be cheap either. I plan to buy one when thyre available, to go with my other full size 60s Mopars.

 

I don’t know if we should use the example of original kit/promo prices for these new resin kits.  They should be at a price point under what the original kits/promos go for.  The reason those original kits/promos are expensive is because they are not being made anymore in plastic and there is a high demand for them in the hobby.  A resin kit, even though they can get pricey, is just not the same as an equivalent vintage kit made in styrene.  If they charge what the originals are going for, it’s probably better just getting the original.  Either way, you’re the spending the same amount of money for either one.  

I was hoping they could get enough capital investment to do small runs in styrene.  Of course, that would take money for tooling and distribution.  However, we have a lot of smart people on here that could do it.  What they need is someone to clone the original kits/ promos like what Round 2 is currently doing.  Make some parts a little different as to not step on the toes of avid collectors like Round 2 is doing with their cloned kits. Then, it would just require an investment in tooling to have it done in styrene plastic.

I hate to sound pessimistic, but this “made to order” Johan kits in resin on a Facebook page with no chrome and vacuumed formed glass for a hundred and a half sounds a little dubious.  

Edited August 22, 2024 by mikos

[thatz4u]

4 hours ago, mikos said:

Atomic City now owns the Johan LLC rights that Okey used to own?

Okey never owned the rights to Jo-han USA Oldies LLC..

[Mark C.]

Good points on original vs resin copy.  An original also comes with the mystique and nostalgia of being an actual piece that was made in the magical 1960s.  The supply/demand aspect brings in higher prices from collectors who will never build the kit, but may just want to recapture all of the great memories of that time in their lives, or perhaps to settle a a yearning to get “one that got away”.

A resin kit holds none of that.  They are purely for builders who are willing to pay premium dollars for subject matter that they just have to put on their shelves.  Apples and oranges, IMHO, except for the intersection of buyers who want to build vintage kits… but then the vintage kit holds an advantage if the price point is similar, due to the extra work and handling care that a resin kit requires.

Here’s hoping the world of success for them, but to be brutally honest, for me it’s just another high priced resin kit that happens to have the Johan name attached.  Money is much tighter these days, so I’m looking for bang for my buck, and right now the R2 reissues of long lost tools are getting most of my attention, along with the great new offerings from Moebius and Revell.

Just my 2 cents…

[thatz4u]

3 minutes ago, Mark C. said:

Good points on original vs resin copy.  An original also comes with the mystique and nostalgia of being an actual piece that was made in the magical 1960s.  The supply/demand aspect brings in higher prices from collectors who will never build the kit, but may just want to recapture all of the great memories of that time in their lives, or perhaps to settle a a yearning to get “one that got away”.

A resin kit holds none of that.  They are purely for builders who are willing to pay premium dollars for subject matter that they just have to put on their shelves.  Apples and oranges, IMHO, except for the intersection of buyers who want to build vintage kits… but then the vintage kit holds an advantage if the price point is similar, due to the extra work and handling care that a resin kit requires.

Here’s hoping the world of success for them, but to be brutally honest, for me it’s just another high priced resin kit that happens to have the Johan name attached.  Money is much tighter these days, so I’m looking for bang for my buck, and right now the R2 reissues of long lost tools are getting most of my attention, along with the great new offerings from Moebius and Revell.

Just my 2 cents…

to each his own..

[GMP440]

42 minutes ago, thatz4u said:

Okey never owned the rights to Jo-han USA Oldies LLC..

So what does Okey actually own if it's the not the rights to Johan?  He bought the remains of Johan , but that did not include the rights to the Johan name?  How is he able to sell Johan parts without ownerships of the Johan name?  Was it a deal where he just bought a bunch of parts and is just reselling them like a vendor at a swap meet?  This is the piece of the puzzle that is missing.  

[niteowl7710]

1 hour ago, GMP440 said:

So what does Okey actually own if it's the not the rights to Johan?  He bought the remains of Johan , but that did not include the rights to the Johan name?  How is he able to sell Johan parts without ownerships of the Johan name?  Was it a deal where he just bought a bunch of parts and is just reselling them like a vendor at a swap meet?  This is the piece of the puzzle that is missing.  

No these Ohio guys created a whole new thing out of hole cloth.  I'm still not sure why they want to be associated with JoHan Oldies anyways, those were the last run Seville Industries kits that were missing all the inserts, and had horrible tooling alignment that created flash monster kits. I don't know anyone who's all - Whoooooo doogie I do enjoy those no custom parts, wrong interiored JoHan Oldie kits!!  It's why I call them FauxHan and FauxHan II.  Neither entity is every going to produce an actual JoHan kit from actual JoHan tooling unless the Ohio crew can track down the few known tools to still exist, find a machine that would actually be able to run said tools, and have the wherewithal to be able to afford the product licensing and liability insurance to produce the kits.  That last part is something that they get to dodge (rimshot) by making these garage aftermarket resin items.

Edited August 22, 2024 by niteowl7710

[dodgefever]

3 hours ago, GMP440 said:

So what does Okey actually own if it's the not the rights to Johan?  He bought the remains of Johan , but that did not include the rights to the Johan name?  How is he able to sell Johan parts without ownerships of the Johan name?  Was it a deal where he just bought a bunch of parts and is just reselling them like a vendor at a swap meet?  This is the piece of the puzzle that is missing.  

You only have "rights" to the name if it's trademarked, and you're prepared to lawyer up to protect it.   Okey Spaulding trademarked "JOHAN MODELS" and "JOHAN" years ago, under Johan Models, LLC (note: no hyphen).  Both of those trademarks are dead, as is the company.  Now he has a new company, Re-Johan Technologies LLC and he filed to trademark "JOHAN" again in February this year, application still pending.  As to what he actually has in the physical realm, who the helll knows.

"JO-HAN MODELS INC." (hyphenated) was the trademark of the original company and expired in 1997.  Seville registered "JO-HAN",which went in 1999, then Playing Mantis had registered it from 2003 - 2010.  A gentleman from Ohio applied to register it in 2018 and that's the Jo-Han that is the subject of this thread.

 

[Dave Van]

10 hours ago, mikos said:

Atomic City now owns the Johan LLC rights that Okey used to own?

It's a long story........Final word is Atomic City owns the JoHan name, logo and trade dress. 

[stavanzer]

11 minutes ago, Dave Van said:

It's a long story........Final word is Atomic City owns the JoHan name, logo and trade dress. 

Thanks, Dave.

Coming from you, I'll take that as the Final Word on the subject.

[thatz4u]

like I said...thanks Dave for the confirming last word...

[dodgefever]

1 hour ago, Dave Van said:

It's a long story........Final word is Atomic City owns the JoHan name, logo and trade dress. 

Well, I could change my name to Joan Collins, but I still wouldn't be her...

[Can-Con]

It's all in the spelling. 

That's why Mercury had a Cyclone and GMC had a Syclone. ?

[Mark]

Okey only bought tooling and already molded parts, maybe already printed decal sheets, boxes, and so on.  He didn't buy the company or the name.  As I understand (I may be wrong) SeVille kept the old Jo-Han company but changed its name, and used that company to continue in whatever business it had in mind, other than making model kits.

The name of a company can be trademarked in a given area.  In New York, when I had a business, by setting up a corporation I had my chosen business name locked up for the entire state.  Someone could have started a business with the same name in any of the other 49 states however, provided there wasn't one in that state already.  Had it not been a corporation, I'd have secured it only for the county in which I live.

So, there can be a Johan in Kentucky (Okey) and a Jo-Han in Michigan (or wherever the Atomic City one is).  When the two collide, they'll end up hashing it out in court, most likely.  These laws likely differ from one state to another, creating some nice busy work for attorneys.

[stavanzer]

Thank You for the clarification, Mark. That clears up a lot of things.

[Dave Van]

The only thing Ill add to Mark's comments right now is I repro'd and printed  many of the decal sheets Okey sold loose. AMX, Turbine and a few others. What all he had I do not know.......but I did that for a few years for him. Thx

[mikos]

I remember when Illinois Model Company was going to reissue the ‘75 Cutlass, ‘59 Rambler Wagon and the Chrysler Turbine Car over a decade ago.  There was a pic shared online that showed the preproduction built models and the proposed box art sitting on a table at a trade show.  I think Steve G. (now at Round 2) was part of the original team that was working on this.

That means the tooling for those models should still exist today unless they were destroyed.  I think this would be a great start to getting this new Atomic City/JoHan back on the hobby scene.  If Okey owns the actual tooling, he could lend it out to Atomic City/JoHan so they could make the models in styrene.  Or, if they just want to concentrate on the expensive (made to order) resin stuff through Facebook, he can lend the tooling to Round 2 so (Steve G.) can produce them in plastic.

As for the old excuse that the Johan tooling inserts wouldn’t work in a modern plastic injection molding machine.  Well, they seemed to have solved that problem back when they about to reissue them again during the Illinois Model Company period.  Unfortunately, for whatever reason, they were not able to get it done.

 

 

Edited August 23, 2024 by mikos

[Dave Van]

The kits IMC was going reissue did exist at that time.  And yes......those tools are from a different time and will not run im todays injection machines. Atlantis and Glencoe HAVE the machines needed but more importantly they have the SKILL to make them run and produce a product that is decent.

That tooling was looked into after IMC bailed by Moebius, along with a few other late 1950's Chrysler kits. ALL were found to be in such poor condition it would be cheaper to clone the tools in China than fix them. Moebius bailed too.  IF you have the CASH and the ability to fix and run old tools it can be found out there. But everyone from IMC, Accurate Miniatures and Moebius have all looked at it and said NO.  If you have a $1M to loose....I can hook you up! Thx

[thatz4u]

20 hours ago, Mark said:

Okey only bought tooling and already molded parts, maybe already printed decal sheets, boxes, and so on.  He didn't buy the company or the name.  As I understand (I may be wrong) SeVille kept the old Jo-Han company but changed its name, and used that company to continue in whatever business it had in mind, other than making model kits.

The name of a company can be trademarked in a given area.  In New York, when I had a business, by setting up a corporation I had my chosen business name locked up for the entire state.  Someone could have started a business with the same name in any of the other 49 states however, provided there wasn't one in that state already.  Had it not been a corporation, I'd have secured it only for the county in which I live.

So, there can be a Johan in Kentucky (Okey) and a Jo-Han in Michigan (or wherever the Atomic City one is).  When the two collide, they'll end up hashing it out in court, most likely.  These laws likely differ from one state to another, creating some nice busy work for attorneys.

FYI, Mark, Atomic city is in Daton, Ohio..

[thatz4u]

4 hours ago, mikos said:

I remember when Illinois Model Company was going to reissue the ‘75 Cutlass, ‘59 Rambler Wagon and the Chrysler Turbine Car over a decade ago.  There was a pic shared online that showed the preproduction built models and the proposed box art sitting on a table at a trade show.  I think Steve G. (now at Round 2) was part of the original team that was working on this.

That means the tooling for those models should still exist today unless they were destroyed.  I think this would be a great start to getting this new Atomic City/JoHan back on the hobby scene.  If Okey owns the actual tooling, he could lend it out to Atomic City/JoHan so they could make the models in styrene.  Or, if they just want to concentrate on the expensive (made to order) resin stuff through Facebook, he can lend the tooling to Round 2 so (Steve G.) can produce them in plastic.

As for the old excuse that the Johan tooling inserts wouldn’t work in a modern plastic injection molding machine.  Well, they seemed to have solved that problem back when they about to reissue them again during the Illinois Model Company period.  Unfortunately, for whatever reason, they were not able to get it done.

 

 

the molds Okey has are in sad shape, & would need to be cloned, don't thnk he has that much surplus cash...

[Luc Janssens]

13 minutes ago, thatz4u said:

the molds Okey has are in sad shape, & would need to be cloned, don't thnk he has that much surplus cash...

Incredible isn't it, that in a decade or so, we went from; Oh no, the tooling is lost or can't be run! To just clone a mint kit!

If the ROI is there, the sky is the limit!

?