San Francisco Cable Car No 16. Help required to obtain details.

[Bugatti Fan]

Anyone out there that lives in or near San Francisco who might be able to help me?

I have recently bought a 1/22nd scale kit for a single ended Cable Car that plies the Powell Street lines.

It is specifically car No 16 that is finished in a blue livery that I wish to build from it.

What I am looking for as a model maker would be plenty of detail pictures of this particular car both inside and out to make the model as accurate as possible.

I have pulled what I can from the internet up to now.

Would be very grateful if anyone can help.   Thanks.

[espo]

5 hours ago, Bugatti Fan said:

Anyone out there that lives in or near San Francisco who might be able to help me?

I have recently bought a 1/22nd scale kit for a single ended Cable Car that plies the Powell Street lines.

It is specifically car No 16 that is finished in a blue livery that I wish to build from it.

What I am looking for as a model maker would be plenty of detail pictures of this particular car both inside and out to make the model as accurate as possible.

I have pulled what I can from the internet up to now.

Would be very grateful if anyone can help.   Thanks.

Have you tried Google Images? I go there before I start on most builds for ideas and colors both stock and some customs or rods. 

[Brian Austin]

Which kit is this?

[Bugatti Fan]

Thanks for the suggestion about Google images Espo.

Brian, the kit is a multi medium kit by Artesania Latina. Mainly of wood and metal. It has been out of production for a number of years now.

[stitchdup]

https://www.streetcar.org/cablecars/16-no-16-muni-blueyellow/

 

https://www.cablecarmuseum.org/cablecars.html

[Big John]

I have a book titled "Cable Car" by Christopher Swan, pub. Ten Speed Press 1978. It has just about anything you would want in details including the grip and brake details, cable power house, Turntables, along with track construction and under street guide pulleys.  I see a couple on eby at the moment.

 

Edited November 15, 2024 by Big John

[Brian Austin]

17 hours ago, Bugatti Fan said:

Brian, the kit is a multi medium kit by Artesania Latina. Mainly of wood and metal. It has been out of production for a number of years now.

OcCre makes a 1:24 scale wood/multimedia kit of a double-ended cable car.  I wasn't aware of the Artesania Latina kits.

[Bugatti Fan]

Thanks for the further feed back guys.

Brian, Artesania made kits of both the single ended Powell Street Cable Car and the double ended California Street Cable Car in 1/22nd scale.     (Curiously in this odd scale rather than 1/24th scale?) The AL kits have been out of production for quite a while and difficult to get hold of.     Mind you I would bet that there are many unbuilt kicking around on builders shelves .

The Occre one you mentioned is of a double ended California Street in 1/24th scale and quite readily available from many sources.

Edited November 16, 2024 by Bugatti Fan

[Brian Austin]

No wonder why I couldn't find the kits on the Artesania website, if they were out of production.

I have a few different issues of the Venerable Hawk/Testors 1:48 scale plastic kit.  One could have a fun display with all the different liveries those kits were offered in.

[Bugatti Fan]

Brian, I can vaguely remember building that little plastic kit way back when Hawk first issued it. Cannot remember how good the quality and accuracy was however as it was so long ago now.

[Mike 1017]

Maybe he can help you out

Mike

 

 

[Brian Austin]

Related Technical Reference

https://www.cablecarmuseum.org/mechanical.html

https://www.cable-car-guy.com/html/ccmain.html

 

https://www.loc.gov/resource/hhh.ca1237.sheet?st=gallery

https://www.loc.gov/resource/hhh.ca1270.sheet?st=gallery

Edited November 17, 2024 by Brian Austin

[Brian Austin]

11 hours ago, Bugatti Fan said:

Brian, I can vaguely remember building that little plastic kit way back when Hawk first issued it. Cannot remember how good the quality and accuracy was however as it was so long ago now.

I built one in the 1980s or '90s, in the Green livery.  I don't have it to take any pictures of it, but IIRC the most frustrating part was the decal striping.  I remember it being a neat little kit.

[Bugatti Fan]

Thanks for the further replies and suggestions Brian and Mike. Will certainly follow up.

[Big John]

Flash back, I just received my copy of the Road & Track April 1962 issue in which they have a road test of a San Francisco cable car... along with the "new" Aston Martin DB4.

[Mark]

On 11/16/2024 at 3:19 PM, Bugatti Fan said:

Thanks for the further feed back guys.

Brian, Artesania made kits of both the single ended Powell Street Cable Car and the double ended California Street Cable Car in 1/22nd scale.     (Curiously in this odd scale rather than 1/24th scale?) 

LGB trains are generally thought to be 1/22 or 1/22.5 scale.

[SSNJim]

You may also see the LGB compatible stuff marked as G scale.

[Bugatti Fan]

Thanks for the further feedback Mark and Jim.

That explains the 1/22nd scale being chosen by Artesania Latina.  It's just that I thought it strange not to have been 1/24th being more compatible with many car and truck kits.

Occre, a Spanish company making wooden tram kits do theirs in 1/24th scale that also made me wonder why AL chose 1/22nd. Not being a rail modeller please excuse my ignorance, but what does LGB mean?

I am well on with the model, but being mainly sold and metal has taken me out of my comfort zone and learning a number of new building and finishing techniques along the way.

 

Edited Wednesday at 07:06 AM by Bugatti Fan

[SSNJim]

LGB is a German company, and stands for Lehmann Gross Bahn (Lehmann Big Trains).

[peteski]

6 hours ago, Bugatti Fan said:

Thanks for the further feedback Mark and Jim.

That explains the 1/22nd scale being chosen by Artesania Latina.  It's just that I thought it strange not to have been 1/24th being more compatible with many car and truck kits.

Occre, a Spanish company making wooden tram kits do theirs in 1/24th scale that also made me wonder why AL chose 1/22nd. Not being a rail modeller please excuse my ignorance, but what does LGB mean?

 

Here is a handy resource listing model scales: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scale_model_sizes

[Bugatti Fan]

Thanks for model scale chart link Pete.

Very useful refetence.

[Brian Austin]

The San Francisco cable car system is narrow gauge.  It's possible the scale is accurate for the gauge.

The range of LGB trains is tricky in terms of actual scale.  In the end they are toys intended to run on a particular track system with tight radius curves.  Scale is often said to be 1:22.5 , but it can vary.  Some models are actually close to 1:26 scale.  The hobby always involves some compromise.  Some G Gauge models made by other manufacturers were 1:24.  Noone will be quizzed on this, but European O Gauge is 1:45 scale, half of 1:22.5 .  🙂

[Bugatti Fan]

Interesting feedback Brian. Thanks for that information.

It is generally believed that the model car scale 1/43rd is compatible with 'O' gauge.

Until I read the last line of your post I was unaware that European 'O' gauge is actually 1/45th scale. What scale is 'O'gauge in America? Is that 1/43rd  of something slightly different again?

[peteski]

Noel, here is another useful link to help out with scales of models of rail transportation:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_modelling_scales

Gauge is the distance between rails (not specifically a scale of a model), although colloquially gauge and scale are often intermixed. The 0 (zero) gauge or O (letter Oh) gauge is one of the gauges where several scales use track with the same distance between rails.  But it is not alone.  For example I model N gauge models (9mm between rails). It was originally used with 1:160 models, but in Japan N gauge models are modeled in 1:150 (since they represent narrow gauge prototype). Well except for the Shinkansen (bullet trains) models which are modeled in 1:160 because the real trains use standard gauge track.  Some UK prototype models using 9mm gauge are 1:148 scale.  Confusing?  Yes.

In general,  many model railroaders are willing to put up with small size discrepancies and will mix/match models whcih all tun on the same gauge track even if the scale is slighty different. 

I have seen Nice H0 layouts (1:87.5) using Matchbox cars for automobile vehicles. Those are closer to 1:64 (which is actually closer in scale to S gauge trains). 1:43 automobile models can be used on 0 gauge models if you aren't strict as far as the scale is concerned.

It seems opposite of some automotive modelers who are real "scale snobs" who split hairs when 1:24 and 1:25 scale is concerned.

[Brian Austin]

British O Scale is 7mm to the foot, or 1:43.  Yes that's a popular model car scale.

US O Scale is known today as 1:48, and it's slightly undersized compared to the track gauge.  Little known today, some American manufacturers in the 1930s through the 1950s promoted a Scale standard of 17/64 inch to the foot, which works out to around 1:45.  Pity it didn't catch on.  I unwittingly acquired some 17/64" items and they are visibly larger than 1:48 Scale items.