Bleed Thru

[Mike 1017]

I primed this Monogram Duesenberg. Is the primer still on the plastic to protect it from a Hot Paint?

Thanks

Mike

[rattle can man]

Unless that is pink primer, I would say the color from the plastic has bled through the primer. I would say you need a better primer, primer sealer, or try using silver paint as a sealer. Then color coat.  But others here might have better advice.

[stitchdup]

if the primed surface is good you can give it a coat of silver or gold to stop the bleed through. then just carry on painting as normal

[Deathgoblin]

I had a similar issue with my Revell Porsche slantnose.  It was red plastic, and I was originally going to paint it pearl white, but the plastic bled through.  Came out a pretty pearl pink when I was done. 

[Mike 1017]

Brain,

I decided to just Clearcoat as is. I can't decide if I hate it or love it. The kit does have a lot of chrome parts, and they may help with the overall look.

Mike

[Ace-Garageguy]

Red bleed-through has been discussed ad nauseum for years.

There are opposing "opinions", some insisting it's real, some saying it's not.

SO...I did my own tests.

ALL red plastics DON'T bleed color, but SOME DO.

Shooting silver over the primer is the best way I've found to block it under light colors so far, without excessive film build.

It's really not an issue under reds or dark colors.

 

[peteski]

2 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

ALL red plastics DON'T bleed color, but SOME DO.

That statement sounds contradictory to me.   How can some (red?) plastic kits bleed colors while all red plastic kits don't?

[Ace-Garageguy]

46 minutes ago, peteski said:

That statement sounds contradictory to me.   How can some (red?) plastic kits bleed colors while all red plastic kits don't?

Think about it.

If I'd said "no red plastic kits bleed" but "some do" it would be contradictory.

Remember that part of the argument out there is that "all red plastic kits bleed"...but the truth is that ALL do NOT bleed...only SOME.

My sentence construction possibly isn't the best to convey that idea, but it's still grammatically and logically correct.

EDIT: It would admittedly be more clear had I relocated the word "not" to the beginning of the phrase, making it "not all red plastic kits bleed..."

So sue me.   

 

Edited Saturday at 04:19 PM by Ace-Garageguy

[Can-Con]

To further this along,,

I've also had orange and yellow bleed but never had blue or green do it. Anyone else have any experience with this?

The reason most silver and gold paint will block it [I'm pretty sure based on my 40 years experience being a painter] is they have flakes as the main pigment that lay down like shingles on a roof and form more of a shield then other colors where the pigment is usually more round particles, more like balls in a ball pit, allowing the dye to easily come up through.

Shellac works in the same way, made up of flakes in a liquid carrier, when dry it forms a sheet sealing in stains, dyes etc.

[Bainford]

1 hour ago, Can-Con said:

To further this along,,

I've also had orange and yellow bleed but never had blue or green do it. Anyone else have any experience with this?

Yes, I have found the very same. 

[stitchdup]

the worst bleed through i've had was the orange revell t2. with every coat of grey primer it got more and more peach and it took 2 coats of silver. usually just enough to cover does the job but it took a paintjob nearly. if i wasn't just using the tailgate it would have made a great early 90s cal looker colour

[peteski]

13 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Think about it.

If I'd said "no red plastic kits bleed" but "some do" it would be contradictory.

Remember that part of the argument out there is that "all red plastic kits bleed"...but the truth is that ALL do NOT bleed...only SOME.

My sentence construction possibly isn't the best to convey that idea, but it's still grammatically and logically correct.

EDIT: It would admittedly be more clear had I relocated the word "not" to the beginning of the phrase, making it "not all red plastic kits bleed..."

So sue me.   

 

Well with English being my second language, maybe I chose the wrong word. Maybe I should have used "ambiguous", "confusing" or just "doesn't making sense" would have been better than "contradictory".  As I understand it, the first part of the sentence was contradicting the second part.  If *ALL* red plastic *DON'T* bleed color, how can "SOME* bleed?  "All" excludes any exceptions.   Illogical!

So sue me.

[slusher]

Mike you can always go with Red and I like the Red pepper in Krylon short cut at hobby lobby.  You could grey primer it and clear the grey primer

[Ace-Garageguy]

5 hours ago, peteski said:

Well with English being my second language, maybe I chose the wrong word...

Thing is, I probably wouldn't lecture YOU on YOUR first language, but that's just me.  

Edited Sunday at 10:55 AM by Ace-Garageguy

[Mike 1017]

I don't know if I am going to love it or hate it. I am just going to Clearcoat it. It will be a unique color. I think that that with all of the chrome parts it will help with the overall look.

Mike

[NOBLNG]

14 minutes ago, Mike 1017 said:

I don't know if I am going to love it or hate it. I am just going to Clearcoat it. It will be a unique color. I think that that with all of the chrome parts it will help with the overall look.

Mike

I don’t quite understand the original question? “Is the primer still on the plastic to protect it from a hot paint?” I gather that the kit is probably molded in red and that is just white primer…hence the thread title? Now you are just going to clear coat over the primer with no paint? The primer will still serve its intended purpose of promoting paint adhesion (and protection from a hotter paint) even though it has turned pink. Any dark color paint should hide the red. Like mentioned previously though, a coat of silver should hide it for lighter shades of paint.

[Can-Con]

20 hours ago, stitchdup said:

the worst bleed through i've had was the orange revell t2. with every coat of grey primer it got more and more peach and it took 2 coats of silver. usually just enough to cover does the job but it took a paintjob nearly. if i wasn't just using the tailgate it would have made a great early 90s cal looker colour

I was kinda wondering if that kit would bleed, Les. We had a blue and white microbus of that generation when I was 13 or 14 so I'm definitely gonna get one eventually.

[stitchdup]

23 minutes ago, Can-Con said:

I was kinda wondering if that kit would bleed, Les. We had a blue and white microbus of that generation when I was 13 or 14 so I'm definitely gonna get one eventually.

the camper version is tan plastic and doesn't bleed

[Mike 1017]

My question is? When a color bleeds through the primer is the primer still there?

Mike

[peteski]

8 minutes ago, Mike 1017 said:

My question is? When a color bleeds through the primer is the primer still there?

Mike

Like any paint coating, primer has thickness (body) to it. Did you think it got absorbed into the plastic surface or evaporated?  Virgin polystyrene is normally clear. But to make opaque parts, a filler and dye (to color it) are mixed into it.  The color dye (red in your example) when exposed to solvents in the primer starts leaching out of the plastic and absorbed into the wet primer. Red dye and gray or white primer end up looking pink.  The coat of primer is still there, just tinted with the red dye.  If you were to scrape or strip it, you will expose the original plastic.

Edited 17 hours ago by peteski

[Mike 1017]

1 minute ago, peteski said:

Like any paint coating, primer has thickness (body) to it. Did you think it got absorbed into the plastic surface or evaporated?  Polystyrene is normally clear. But to make opaque parts, a filler and dye (to color it) are mixed into it.  The color dye (red in your example) when exposed to solvents in the primer starts leaching out of the plastic and absorbed into the wet primer. Red dye and gray or white primer end up looking pink.  The coat of primer is still there, just tinted with the red dye.  If you were to scrape or strip it, you will expose the original plastic.

Does the primer bleed thru and exposing the bare plastic? Later today I will do a scratch as you suggested.

Thanks

Mike

[stitchdup]

36 minutes ago, Mike 1017 said:

Does the primer bleed thru and exposing the bare plastic? Later today I will do a scratch as you suggested.

Thanks

Mike

the primer is still there, its just absorbing colour from the plastic. you dont really need a scratch test as thats more work to fix. a coat of silver will let you use any colour over it without the bleed thru being a problem. the tailgate on this was orange plastic and turned the primer peach but silver before the white fixed it

 

[NOBLNG]

The primer does not “soak in” to the plastic. In my understanding, the dyes can leach out and tint the primer, and it can leach out further to tint the paint if a sealer of some sort is not used as a barrier.

[peteski]

5 hours ago, Mike 1017 said:

Does the primer bleed thru and exposing the bare plastic? Later today I will do a scratch as you suggested.

Thanks

Mike

I thought I explained the effect fairly clearly. My statement wasn't a question - I was stating a fact.  But feel free to scratch the primer coating to expose the full color plastic.

Primer isn't exposing anything.  It is an opaque coating. The color dye in the plastic leaches out and gets absorbed into the liquid primer (before it dries). Not all of the dye leaches out, so the primer will have look slightly more pastel (lighter) than the plastic underneath it. Maybe I didn't explain this well enough first time.

Edited 11 hours ago by peteski