Crummy Bare Metal Foil

[Bernard Kron]

I'm tackling my first BMF job and I'm suspicious about the Chrome foil I'm using. The sheet itself is riddled with wrinkles and the foil itself doesn't burnish down as consistently flat as I'd like (it has a slight crinkled texture after burnishing). Also, I swear it doesn't adhere as well as some Bright Chrome foil I have that I used to practice with. Below is a picture of the sheet in question. Is this the bad stuff that people have been discussing or do I just need to log my time with BMF until I get the results I want? (I am burnishing, then cutting, then burnishing again, and finally peeling the excess away.)

Edited May 16, 2009 by gbk1

[FujimiLover]

WOW! I would try another sheet. None of mine have ever had a wrinkle on it. I suspect this is your first time with BMF and if it is, you need to be patient with it. This stuff is very, very thin and while that might make it hard to work with, at the same time, it's what makes it special and able to go over just about everything.

Remember, this is REAL metal, but made very thin to be useable on our projects.

I would try this wrinkled sheet on spare plastic and see if you can't smooth out those wrinkles. I usually use a tooth-pick and carefully smooth it out flat. As for being sticky, maybe spray the surface with some kind of spray-glue like artists use? Then stick the BMF ontop of that to get it to stick? Once it sticks, it should be alot easier to work with.

Much like the SMS CF decals, this stuff does take alot of practice to get right.

Please post pic's of your practicing so we may help you out later on.

By the way, dont' use the very tip of the tooth-pick as that will cut/rip the foil. Use the softer sides.

Edited May 16, 2009 by FujimiLover

[Brendan]

You got a bad batch of bare metal foil. Or it could just be old. I try to buy direct from the manufacturer or buy from a hobby shop that has high turnover of this product. It's a very good product but they've been having some problems. There are other threads on the subject that could be helpful.

[Bernard Kron]

Thanks everyone.

It's as I had feared. I have gone ahead and ordered fresh stock directly from BMF Co. Unfortunately, I can no longer recall where I got this sheet, although it was only a few months ago. Otherwise I would most certainly have returned it!

Incidentally, the sheets direct from BMF are pretty reasonable at $6.50 each, but since shipping is $8.70 you should be ready to order more than one sheet. In my case I also needed some aluminum sheet and clear decal paper so it will all work out.

I'm looking forward to a less trying BMF experience in the near future!

B.

[MADmodelDOCTOR]

Incidentally, the sheets direct from BMF are pretty reasonable at $6.50 each, but since shipping is $8.70 you should be ready to order more than one sheet. In my case I also needed some aluminum sheet and clear decal paper so it will all work out.

They are mailed in a nice priority mail box.

[Bernard Kron]

They are mailed in a nice priority mail box.

Cool! If they ship on Monday from Michigan I'll have it Thursday or Friday at the latest. Then I can re-do all my BMF (not so cool... ).

[FujimiLover]

This is what I did with my sheet of BMF. I used it to chrome the grill on my KS 500 SL. I did clear-coat over the BMF to help keep it in place.

Not my best BMF work as I didn't have alot of surface to work with. But it still look's pretty darn good.

[E St. Kruiser50]

Hi Bernard

I use MICRO METAL FOIL ADHESIVE by MICROSCALE. Works great, especially for around windows.

Get it at your LHS - dave

[MrObsessive]

Bernard, BMF has recently been cleaning up their act regarding bad sheets of foil. I got a new sheet back in January (It said "New" on it) and so far so good!

I just used it a couple days ago on my Cougar II build for the scripts, and it's sticking very well. You've definitely got a bad sheet there as everyone else has mentioned.

Take your time with the BMF......it may seem a bit intimidating at first, but once you've used it and have mastered it, you'll definitely be spoiled by BMF!

[curt raitz]

Hey Bernard...don't discard the old sheet of BMF.

If it still sticks to stuff, it can be used for small trim areas, back-foilng head & tail lamps and masking, etc

a couple of things i have learned about this stuff...

be careful when overlapping BMF in corners, etc, it doesn't stick to itself very well

it likes a painted surface better than bare plastic

every little bump, ridge, etc in the paint will be evident in the foil

and ya gotta be very, very patient when applying it as well...kinda like decaling

have fun

curt

[Bernard Kron]

Hey Bernard...don't discard the old sheet of BMF.

If it still sticks to stuff, it can be used for small trim areas, back-foiling head & tail lamps and masking, etc

a couple of things i have learned about this stuff...

be careful when overlapping BMF in corners, etc, it doesn't stick to itself very well

it likes a painted surface better than bare plastic

every little bump, ridge, etc in the paint will be evident in the foil

and ya gotta be very, very patient when applying it as well...kinda like decaling

have fun

curt

Curt, thanx for the detailed pointers. It does still stick OK, although as you point out, not to itself so well. It works best if you do the corners first, then the longer stretches, an approach that Dennis Doty emphasizes in his excellent how-to on the BMF website. It's definitely going to be used for small details and for masking. And your right, it absolutely reminds me of decaling - tedious, somewhat nerve wracking, but with big time rewards for a job well done. Speaking of a job well done, it was the really nice foiling on the GTB4 you sent me that tipped me off that the stuff I had might be funky - I may be new at BMF but it definitely was not cooperating in achieving results like that!

B.

[curt raitz]

Curt, thanx for the detailed pointers. It does still stick OK, although as you point out, not to itself so well. It works best if you do the corners first, then the longer stretches, an approach that Dennis Doty emphasizes in his excellent how-to on the BMF website. It's definitely going to be used for small details and for masking. And your right, it absolutely reminds me of decaling - tedious, somewhat nerve wracking, but with big time rewards for a job well done. Speaking of a job well done, it was the really nice foiling on the GTB4 you sent me that tipped me off that the stuff I had might be funky - I may be new at BMF but it definitely was not cooperating in achieving results like that!

B.

further tip, before Raul tells ya...best tool for burnishing the foil is 'balsa wood', hard enough to burnish - but soft enough as not to tear the foil

[FujimiLover]

I've had good luck with tooth-picks as my tool.

[LoneWolf15]

Cool! If they ship on Monday from Michigan I'll have it Thursday or Friday at the latest. Then I can re-do all my BMF (not so cool... ).

Look on the bright side , you now know what the problem was and you learned from it .You have new foil coming , you get to work with new stock , and you get to practice .... again ! The more you work with the foil , the better you are going to be with it . This time , it'll all go on just the way it is supposed to and you won't have to struggle with it . By the way , how you even worked with the old foil is beyond me , that stuff was hammered !

The Old Man

[Chuck Most]

I've noticed the stuff called "Bright Chrome" seems to be sturdier than the regular "Chrome" BMF. I've gotten the "dry lake bed" looking sheets before, and they usually get relegated to small script, reflector, and masking duty. One very minor hangup about the Bright stuff- It tends to want to curl into a circle like Elvis' lip when you peel it off the backing- that does take some getting used to at first.

A few tricks for preserving a GOOD sheet of BMF;

Keep it in a cool and dry place, NOT the bookshelf by the sunny window just above the humidifier, in it's original envelope, in a sealable Zip-Lock type bag- this seems to help extend it's shelf life. And I try to keep mine hung up on a cork board with a push pin (ABOVE the foil sheet and not THROUGH it, naturally) , to minimize the chance of it getting kinked. I'm with a lot of you guys- at eight bucks a sheet, I wanna get my money's worth out of it!!!!

[Bernard Kron]

further tip, before Raul tells ya...best tool for burnishing the foil is 'balsa wood', hard enough to burnish - but soft enough as not to tear the foil

Raul's been there already and I've got the balsa wood!

Look on the bright side , you now know what the problem was and you learned from it .You have new foil coming , you get to work with new stock , and you get to practice .... again ! ...

I agree completely. I actually feel pretty good about the whole experience.

Thanx to everyone for confirming my suspicions and for all the great tips. I'm really glad I posted the picture. Hopefully it'll help other BMF newbies avoid the Bad Stuff! My only remaining concern is taking care when I remove the old stuff, and having the discipline to remove everything that looks funky. ...

Chuck, I have the Bright Chrome stuff, too, and it does seem to go on better. I suspect that it's mainly because it's not the "Dry Lake Bed" variety , but it appears to be perhaps a little thicker and more stable. But the Chrome stuff Really looks like Chrome. The Bright Chrome looks more contemporary and more like Stainless or Aluminum trim.

[Raul_Perez]

Bernard,

Seeing this picture of the sheet of BMF that you used on your Shoebox Ford explains the wrinkles and bumps I saw in the windshield trim, which prompted my comment about burnishing after you trim the foil. These wrinkles and bumps in the finish appear to be secondary affects of the adhesive going bad; it doesn't stay consistently applied to the foil...

I think I mentioned that Windex, or any other Ammonia based cleaning product, will remove any residual BMF adhesive from the model without damaging most paints. The exception is latex-based paints, but that's more for the military and train folks...

Good luck!!

Later,

[Bernard Kron]

Seeing this picture of the sheet of BMF that you used on your Shoebox Ford explains the wrinkles and bumps I saw in the windshield trim, ... These wrinkles and bumps in the finish appear to be secondary affects of the adhesive going bad; it doesn't stay consistently applied to the foil...

That's good to hear. There's hope. Looking forward to another epic session of snip, snip, rub, rub, cut. cut, rub, rub, snip..... etc.

[Raul_Perez]

That's good to hear. There's hope. Looking forward to another epic session of snip, snip, rub, rub, cut. cut, rub, rub, snip..... etc.

Yep...you know how to do it...you've got the right tools and knowledge, you just need good material to work with to get the results you're looking for...

[Steven Zimmerman]

I had a sheet of BMF that wouldn't stick(sound familiar ? )...I sent them a polite letter about it,got a reply back telling me in so many words,that (1) there was nothing wrong with their product (2) in every instance where they field tested so called'bad' product,there was nothing wrong with it, (3) they haven't changed their manufacturing process or their glue formula in 20 years because there was nothing wrong with it (4) it was not made to stick to automotive paint(still scratching my head over that one) (5) if it wouldn't stick,it was MY fault ,I was applying it incorrectly (6) if they replaced every sheet they got a customer complaint about,they would be out of business....... I wrote them another letter,telling them(politely,again) that I would be taking my business elswhere. Steve Zimmerman,aka the'Z'man

[noname]

Thats funny. They told you there was nothing wrong with their product but yet if they acted on every compaint they'd be out of business. Sounds like alot of complaints doesn't it.

Unfortunately there isn't much of a choice. Send the part to be chromed (which I'd never do myself and sounds $$$), Alclad all the chrome ( could be a nightmare on a 58 Impala),or use tin foil ( which I would think would be a chore getting the glue off of where you didn't need it).

[FujimiLover]

Since we're on the topic of BMF foil, how would you go about getting this look?

I've always loved the way this look's when light hit's it. I'm wondering if there's anyway to acheive that on BFM. It would be awesome if the BMF company could provide this look for us.

Edited May 19, 2009 by FujimiLover

[roadhawg]

Send the part to be chromed (which I'd never do myself and sounds $$$),

No, its really not TOO bad........ http://www.chrometechusa.com/modelplate2.html ......The only issue is turn around time. It could take 3-6 weeks to get the stuff back.

I wrote them another letter,telling them(politely,again) that I would be taking my business elswhere.

Great idea, except BMF is the only product of its kind worth using. The "others", (Testors, Detail Master, etc) are MUCH worse. The stuff that has "new" on the package seems to be good. Not really a lot of choice here.

[Zoom Zoom]

I had a sheet of BMF that wouldn't stick(sound familiar ? )...I sent them a polite letter about it,got a reply back telling me in so many words,that (1) there was nothing wrong with their product (2) in every instance where they field tested so called'bad' product,there was nothing wrong with it, (3) they haven't changed their manufacturing process or their glue formula in 20 years because there was nothing wrong with it (4) it was not made to stick to automotive paint(still scratching my head over that one) (5) if it wouldn't stick,it was MY fault ,I was applying it incorrectly (6) if they replaced every sheet they got a customer complaint about,they would be out of business....... I wrote them another letter,telling them(politely,again) that I would be taking my business elswhere. Steve Zimmerman,aka the'Z'man

That's rather odd, as they usually do replace it if it's sent back. And they did revise the formula recently and the packages have "new/improved" sticker on them so you know it's not the same batch that wrinkled and cracked. They certainly knew there was an issue. I have a feeling if you had sent them your sheet, rather than just a letter, they would have replaced it and you wouldn't have gotten such an out-of-character response. But if they had done the same to me, I'd feel just like you do. Problem is, there really is not a better alternative.

[Harry P.]

I had a sheet of BMF that wouldn't stick(sound familiar ? )...I sent them a polite letter about it,got a reply back telling me in so many words,that (1) there was nothing wrong with their product (2) in every instance where they field tested so called'bad' product,there was nothing wrong with it, (3) they haven't changed their manufacturing process or their glue formula in 20 years because there was nothing wrong with it (4) it was not made to stick to automotive paint(still scratching my head over that one) (5) if it wouldn't stick,it was MY fault ,I was applying it incorrectly (6) if they replaced every sheet they got a customer complaint about,they would be out of business....... I wrote them another letter,telling them(politely,again) that I would be taking my business elswhere. Steve Zimmerman,aka the'Z'man

I had the same exact experience. I was told that the foil not sticking was MY fault, that I was applying it incorrectly, blah blah blah.

And yet, even though there was "nothing wrong" with the old BMF, for some reason they've changed it. Hmmmm....