why dont most japanese kits come with engines?

[drugsarebad420]

its something strange ive noticed, most japanese cars ive done were curbside, even if there was some engine bay detail! (CBC AE86 from aoshima) i love the quality on them, but i dont like how so many are curbside.

[sidcharles]

they are skilled enough not to need a kit engine?

 

 

[Cool Hand]

Cant answer your question. As I have no idea.

But I have built many Aoshima kits and it doesnt bother me they are curbside. 

For me personally engine and chassis detail is a waste of my build time. Once they go on the shelf for display those details are never seen again. 

Although I have put in the effort to install an engine in a curbside. 

🤷‍♂️

Why does it matter.

Edited August 30 by Cool Hand

[stitchdup]

does anybody want to make black spaghetti?

[Bugatti Fan]

I would think that the answer is fairly obvious.   To keep the cost of the kit down and thus sell more units.

We are enthusiasts, but the majority of kits probably get sold to Joe Public who are not concerned about engine details.

Edited August 30 by Bugatti Fan

[Cool Hand]

2 hours ago, sidcharles said:

they are skilled enough not to need a kit engine?

This gentleman is another very skilled builder.

 

[Fat Brian]

Most Japanese kits started out more as motorized toys than model kits, you can still see some vestigial parts in older kits from the big three companies. I think the Japanese market just got used to curbsides because the space was used for electric motors and batteries. While Tamiya specifically does put engines in some of its modern kits it's certainly not all and there doesn't seem to be any local market pressure to change since the other companies still primarily release curbsides.

[sidcharles]

5 hours ago, Cool Hand said:

. . . engine and chassis detail is a waste of my build time. Once they go on the shelf for display those details are never seen . . . 

Why does it matter.

this statement could be the start of a great philosophical thread along the lines of "why do we build models?"

not to sidetrack this thread further, but if anyone wants to start another, i'll follow along.

i predict 13 pages easily. 

[stitchdup]

11 minutes ago, sidcharles said:

this statement could be the start of a great philosophical thread along the lines of "why do we build models?"

not to sidetrack this thread further, but if anyone wants to start another, i'll follow along.

i predict 13 pages easily. 

the longest so far is 74 posts, most die out around 50 posts

[meechum68]

I usually build "American" stuff, and they all have engines, but since I have been a member here, I do look forward to working on my Aoshima's, Fujimi's and Tamiya "curbside" stuff to learn better weathering techniques, interior detailing, etc.  Since I won't be concentrating on the engine and driveline details.   

I do like the cost of Imports being considerably lower than most of my Revell's AMT/Ertl, MPC stuff, so for me price and the look of the car are huge factors for purchase. Plus if I decide to do something wild kit bash style, I really have to step up my crafting game.

 

 

Edited August 30 by meechum68

[Cool Hand]

3 hours ago, sidcharles said:

this statement could be the start of a great philosophical thread along the lines of "why do we build models?"

not to sidetrack this thread further, but if anyone wants to start another, i'll follow along.

i predict 13 pages easily. 

Or it could be "why do we build models and what is the purpose of participating on this forum" 🤣

[drugsarebad420]

4 hours ago, Fat Brian said:

Most Japanese kits started out more as motorized toys than model kits, you can still see some vestigial parts in older kits from the big three companies. I think the Japanese market just got used to curbsides because the space was used for electric motors and batteries. While Tamiya specifically does put engines in some of its modern kits it's certainly not all and there doesn't seem to be any local market pressure to change since the other companies still primarily release curbsides.

explains why some of my kits had battery boxes lol

[drugsarebad420]

Just now, Cool Hand said:

Or it could be "why do we build models and what is the purpose of participating on this forum" 🤣

we build because we like making cool stuff, duh

[sidcharles]

1 hour ago, Cool Hand said:

Or it could be "why do we build models and what is the purpose of participating on this forum" 🤣

i can work with that.

start it (new thread) and i shall follow.

[StevenGuthmiller]

12 hours ago, sidcharles said:

this statement could be the start of a great philosophical thread along the lines of "why do we build models?"

not to sidetrack this thread further, but if anyone wants to start another, i'll follow along.

i predict 13 pages easily. 

Oh, it’s nothing new.

This subject has been hashed over so many times, it’s basically like beating a dead horse.

Some people see no need to spend time on things that will “never be seen”, while others feel that the engine and chassis are integral pieces of an automobile and should be represented in a scale reproduction.

I have some models that I’ve built within the past few years that I can’t imagine being without the engine bay detail.

I think of it a little like walking past a 1961 Chrysler 300 with the long ram intake at a car show with the hood closed, and not being able to view that glorious conglomeration.

The engine, and sometimes chassis or engine bay details, can often be the most interesting part of a car.

Why wouldn’t I want to depict those details?

 

 

Steve

[sidcharles]

1 hour ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

Oh, it’s nothing new.

This subject has been hashed over so many times, it’s basically like beating a dead horse.

Some people see no need to spend time on things that will “never be seen”, while others feel that the engine and chassis are integral pieces of an automobile . . . . 

objective perspective, but muddled with too many disassociated thoughts.

and i don't see this addressing neither the OP query, nor my (quoted) statement. 

[StevenGuthmiller]

2 hours ago, sidcharles said:

objective perspective, but muddled with too many disassociated thoughts.

and i don't see this addressing neither the OP query, nor my (quoted) statement. 

Okay. 
 

 

Steve

[Rbray47]

I like having an engine to mess around with, but I also like the old Amt kits with the simplified chassis. Sometimes all I want to do is spray the frame black and forget about it. Japanese kits tend to be the opposite of what I want, but I still build them because I like the subject matter. 

I have scratchbuilt entire engines, but  it's time consuming and no one will know since the hoods are usually shut. So I get it, especially with modern vehicles, skip that step and still be able to offer a nice kit. 

[oldcarfan]

I used to like the full detail kits but as I'm getting older I've lost patience for lack of a better word for that sort of detail. What's worse, I've also lost a lot of my ability to concentrate, even to finish a book, and I used to read 2-3 books a week. Now I like curbside kits because I can do one before I get distracted.

[peteski]

I suspect the reasons for all those curbside Japanese automotive kits are:
1. As mentioned, many early kits were made as motorized toys with accurate bodies/wheels/tires, but with no engines, and shallow interior to make space for the motor/battery.

2. Keep the cost down since it is expensive to produce tooling, engine and chassis details add significant cost to produce molds for fully detailed kit.

3.  Even most contemporary Japanese modelers (who are the main target of those kits) aren't really all that interested in full engine detail.  Why? who knows, but they seem to be happy with just accurately modeled exterior features.

Sure there are exceptions, and some Japanese modelers very fastidiously build full detail models, often superior to what the U.S. modelers build, but there seems to be a low percentage of those modelers. Besides, that is why there is an aftermarket for making all those details not included in the curbside kits. 

If you notice in Tamiya kits for example, the full detail kits have well-made but simplified engines. Many engine parts which are separate in American model kits are molded with the engine block or combined other ways. Again, the Japanese  manufacturers do not consider engine details as very important.  Japan has a very different culture and customs compared to the Western countries, so they do things differently. Same goes for other hobbies, like model trains.  For example Digital Command Control (DCC) is quite popular outside of Japan, but  almost non-existent with Japanese model railroaders.

 

[dmthamade]

I would be 100% for curbside kits. My builds get done, then sit on the shelf. Recently did three funny cars, did them as curbsiders, prefer them looking like they're ready to stage. OTOH, i do have some 1/16 Revell funny cars in the stash that i might do more on...

Don

[Carmak]

This is pure speculation.

The oldest Japanese 1:24/1:25 plastic model car bodies I have seen were originally intended for slot car racing in the early to mid 60's. Some of those bodies were turned into curbside kits when the slot car boom went bust in Japan. This may have set the precedent for curbside (powered or static) kits.

The series of 66 (and one 65) American car kits Hasegawa sells were all originally slot car bodies.

Below are period pics are of Japanese 1/25 scale slot car kits. It's my understanding the stock car bodies were copies of American promo car bodies.

[Mattblack]

I had the Hasegawa '66 Buick Wildcat kit years ago. For some reason I thought that being Japanese it would be super detailed, I remember being surprised it was a curbside. I built it and then one Christmas day I was bored and made it into a demo derby type car...

[Bainford]

2 hours ago, Carmak said:

This is pure speculation.

The oldest Japanese 1:24/1:25 plastic model car bodies I have seen were originally intended for slot car racing in the early to mid 60's. Some of those bodies were turned into curbside kits when the slot car boom went bust in Japan. This may have set the precedent for curbside (powered or static) kits.

The series of 66 (and one 65) American car kits Hasegawa sells were all originally slot car bodies.

Below are period pics are of Japanese 1/25 scale slot car kits. It's my understanding the stock car bodies were copies of American promo car bodies.

Those Tamiya kits are mind-blowing. I had no idea Tamiya ever offered kits of such cars, and in 1/25 scale no less. Thanks for posting.

[Bainford]

I think much of the reason for Japanese kits frequently not having engines, and American kits almost always having engines, comes down to the differences in motoring cultures of the two regions. In the US, where Hot Rodding and Drag Racing are ever-present, and the big V-8 is king, the engines in 1:1 cars are on full display. As such, they are made to be show pieces, with big, fancy intake systems, lots of chrome & polished aluminum. The engine itself was/is often the centre of attraction, and this is instilled in the psyche of the young model builder. In period, I believe this was less so in other cultures. Modern Japanese 1:1 car builders build wild looking engines suitable for spectacular display, with huge turbos, massive intercoolers, and lots of shiny pipes to connect it all together, but at the time when model car building was developing as a hobby, this was not the case in Japan, and I think that is reflected in model kit design.

Additionally, as Brian mentioned above, and for some unfathomable reason, battery powered kits were the norm, which would have negatively effected the inclusion of an engine in many kits.