the legend lives on from the chippewa on down

[michelle]

this november 10th marks the 50 years since the the big fitz the titanic of the great lakes went down with all 29 crew members back on november 10 1975 

i have been interested in the mystery behind what really caused the fitz to go down  for several years and  there is no shortage of theories
and it is really the only shipwreck i have ever had any interest in the other one i also find interesting is the ww2 us navy heavy cruiser uss indianapolis  ca-35

and i do not think we will ever get a definitive answer so it will remain a mystery and that  mystery and the late gordon lightfoot's song the wreck of the edmund fitzgerald will keep the memory of this ship and it's crew alive well after the last of the crew's direct family members and anyone alive and old enough to remember the event and comprehend it are gone so in that way i hope it never gets solved 

but the part of me that always enjoys when a mystery is finally solved hopes they will at some point allow new scans be made  with side scan sonar or some other device that can render high res scans and be able peer  though the mud and silt to see the lower half of the bow that is buried  without anybody in a submersible or deep water diving going down to the ship and hopefully maybe allow a rov robot to go down to the wreck  and retrieve the log book which would also reveal what was happening before leaving the last pickup site and heading out into the lake up to and during the storm till the ship went down due to the captain or first mate would have written down what ever the engine room or other areas of the ship would phone up to the bridge while underway and during the storm till the ship went down and what was was going on with the ship during those last runs to pick up the iron ore

well the acapella group home free released their cover of the wreck of the edmund fitzgerald along with music video for it 9 days ago 
and their cover gives me the same chills that gordon's version does 
and the music video films on the great lakes frieghter ss william a irvin which was turned into a museum ship docked in duluth minnesota as well along the coast  along superior  near duluth
also there is talk that maybe the ss arthur m anderson might get turned into a muesum to prevent it from being scraped since it may not pass it latest 5 year inspection this ship has a connection to the big fitz and a part of it's story of it's last fatefull iron ore run 

 

[bobss396]

I believe it was a hatch cover that came loose somehow. There was a special on it, forget if it was Discovery or Nat Geo.

A buddy of mine was in the Great Lakes US Coast Guard training program at the time. His ship answered the distress call. They got out to the area... nothing. 

He said it was the heaviest and roughest water he had ever been out on.

[michelle]

2 hours ago, bobss396 said:

I believe it was a hatch cover that came loose somehow. There was a special on it, forget if it was Discovery or Nat Geo.

A buddy of mine was in the Great Lakes US Coast Guard training program at the time. His ship answered the distress call. They got out to the area... nothing. 

He said it was the heaviest and roughest water he had ever been out on.

the hatch cover was not it plus those hatch covers weigh 7 tons each and while not all of the  kesner clamps were down mainly cause  they could not be used cause years of paint applications and poor maintenance  over the years while layed up between seasons and inspections had rendered them useless 
the only distress call  concerning the fitz was from the captain of ss arthur m anderson after they lost contact of the fitz both on radio and radar screen 

 

[LDO]

Slight hijack…

The Mariners church where they rang the the bell 29 times rang 30 times the year  Gordon Lightfoot died. 
 

https://www.freep.com/story/entertainment/music/brian-mccollum/2023/05/02/gordon-lightfoot-mariners-church-detroit-bells/70175392007/

I saw that documentary about the Edmund Fitzgerald also. 

Edited Monday at 03:08 PM by LDO

[Volzfan59]

I was a kid when the big Fitz went down. Due to my pop’s job, we were living in Escanaba, MI then. Love the song and watch every documentary and YouTube video I come across.

[stavanzer]

1 minute ago, Volzfan59 said:

Love the song and watch every documentary and YouTube video I come across.

Me too!

I've been fascinated by the story since I first heard the song. Like you, I have watched and read many things about the Fitz.

I believe that we will never know the whole story.

[Andria H]

Doubtful anything is left of the logbook after 50yrs underwater. 

I too am fascinated by the Big Fitz 

[NOBLNG]

Much more haunting to my ears.

 

 

Edited Monday at 10:51 PM by NOBLNG

[stavanzer]

Sorry.

The Gordon Lightfoot Version is just better.

They aren't bad. Just not as good as the original.....

[Dave Ambrose]

There have been divers on the Edmund Fitzgerald. If I remember correctly one of the cargo hatches was open. I don't remember if they were able to ascertain why it came loose. 

[Dave Van]

 

[michelle]

7 hours ago, Andria H said:

Doubtful anything is left of the logbook after 50yrs underwater. 

I too am fascinated by the Big Fitz 

they recovered and restored a journal from the titanic that had been in the wreck for almost a hundred years and it was still readable
and they also recovered the logbook in 1981 from another great lakes ore ship the ss daniel j morrell  that  broke in two and went down in  1966  on lake huron with 26 of it's 29 crew as 3 made it to the life raft but only one of those three survived due to his lack of clothing he had on at the time he dove off the ship into the water while the other 2 men already in the life boat  froze to death due to their wet and heavy clothing they were wearing freezing into ice in the freezing temps 
 

[johnyrotten]

2 hours ago, michelle said:

they recovered and restored a journal from the titanic that had been in the wreck for almost a hundred years and it was still readable

I remember seeing something about that,it was a young kid's journal if i remember correctly, the handwriting was all still legible. Icy cold water and no oxygen seems to be what preserved it. 

[michelle]

 

8 minutes ago, johnyrotten said:

I remember seeing something about that,it was a young kid's journal if i remember correctly, the handwriting was all still legible. Icy cold water and no oxygen seems to be what preserved it. 

and superior is ice cold  also  and the nature of it prevents bacteria that causes both deterioration of wooden and steel hulled vessels as well as bodies of people that go down in the ships from decomposing to much and bloating and floating to the surface  which is why they say the lake never gives up her dead
as well other stuff like fabric and paper  though i think ships log books pages are  from mid to late 20th century through now are made with a heavy duty high end type paper that can make it hold up even if it get soaked and the covers are made of a high end material that can be waterproofed 
the 5 log books that were recovered from the wreck of the ss daniel j morrell were able to be restored and the readable since they were written with a pencil over a ink pen they did have each page freeze dried though before the restoration was done and the pages rebound with a new binding 

[bobss396]

The song got a lot of air play, although it was long. I still get shivers when I hear it play.

[bobss396]

10 hours ago, Dave Ambrose said:

There have been divers on the Edmund Fitzgerald. If I remember correctly one of the cargo hatches was open. I don't remember if they were able to ascertain why it came loose. 

The TV special i saw alluded to an open hatch that let water in.

It was enough, they alluded to the ship being bridged up on 2 waves and the weight deep in the hull snapped it in two.

[John M.]

I was 13 when the Fitz went down with all hands lost. A great loss to the families, relatives and friends of the crew members. I recall a documentary from 1995 where the Fitz's bell was recovered and replaced with one that listed the names of the crew members. As the names of each of them were read off on the salvage ship, the Fitz's bell was struck once for each name mentioned. It was quite moving. 

Edited 12 hours ago by John M.

[ranma]

If he Gales of November did this to a life boat , one can only imagine what the Freighter was battered with from them. Photo's of the wheel house show that it got beat badly.

[Mike 1017]

Thanks for sharing, Michelle. Gordons song is the most soul haunting ever recorded I like the Acapella Version

Live Long and Prosper 

🖖

[espo]

There is a museum in the UP, upper Michigan, dedicated to the Coast Guard and of course the Edmond Fitzgerald. Unfortunately, it is not located on the way to anywhere it seems, but well worth visiting and extremely well done and enlightening into how life was at the time.   

[iamsuperdan]

I'm putting on my Fox Mulder hat here

The Great Lakes region, especially around Lake Superior, has a long history of UFO sightings. In fact, in November 1975 (the same month the Fitzgerald sank), there was a wave of UFO reports along the U.S.–Canada border, including near the Soo Locks and northern Michigan. 

Also, some UFO researchers suggest that the ship’s radios were knocked out—not by water, but by a sudden electromagnetic pulse, the kind often reported in UFO encounters. Electromagnetic interference could also cripple the ship's engines and controls, not just the radio. The ballast control was also electronically controlled. Leaving the EF vulnerable to a massive and unprecedented storm.

Electromagnetic interference can also mess with radar. Other ships in the area reported their radar going blank, around the same time the EF vanished.

The broken hatch theory was a coverup.

 

I'm not saying it was aliens, but...

 

This story is so much more fun than the broken hatch and hull fatigue theory/reality.

I should flesh this out into a screenplay. Could be a fun movie. Or X-Files episode in the upcoming reboot.

 

 

[Volzfan59]

2 hours ago, espo said:

There is a museum in the UP, upper Michigan, dedicated to the Coast Guard and of course the Edmond Fitzgerald. Unfortunately, it is not located on the way to anywhere it seems, but well worth visiting and extremely well done and enlightening into how life was at the time.   

Where is it at? I’m hoping to go to Escanaba in the next couple of years. Wanting to show my wife where we lived up there.

[michelle]

2 hours ago, iamsuperdan said:

I'm putting on my Fox Mulder hat here

The Great Lakes region, especially around Lake Superior, has a long history of UFO sightings. In fact, in November 1975 (the same month the Fitzgerald sank), there was a wave of UFO reports along the U.S.–Canada border, including near the Soo Locks and northern Michigan. 

Also, some UFO researchers suggest that the ship’s radios were knocked out—not by water, but by a sudden electromagnetic pulse, the kind often reported in UFO encounters. Electromagnetic interference could also cripple the ship's engines and controls, not just the radio. The ballast control was also electronically controlled. Leaving the EF vulnerable to a massive and unprecedented storm.

Electromagnetic interference can also mess with radar. Other ships in the area reported their radar going blank, around the same time the EF vanished.

The broken hatch theory was a coverup.

 

I'm not saying it was aliens, but...

 

This story is so much more fun than the broken hatch and hull fatigue theory/reality.

I should flesh this out into a screenplay. Could be a fun movie. Or X-Files episode in the upcoming reboot.

 

 

much of that was solved by a declassifed military file they were testing a new plane that was flying around that area that night  and there also was two fighter planes sent to that area ordered by norad  while the arthur m anderson and the william clay ford were searching  due to people on shore and on both ships seeing odd lights in the sky 

the fitz did not loose it's radio cause they were talking to the anderson pretty much till the end the fitz lost  it's radar unit during the storm and they had been having issues all that season with it after it was damaged  early on in the season at one of the ports they were loading  and one the auto loading shoots on the dock malfunctioned and came back down  while the fitz was leaving and bent the radar unit at a 45 degree angle and later in  november the storm winds and the waves just finished taking it out  the captain decided  around august or september to let all the repairs the ship really needed wait till it was laid up for the winter and it would fall on the new capt the following season cause mcsorley was retiring at the end of the  75 season 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by michelle

[michelle]

here is something else interesting after the ship sunk one of the engineers/designer of the fitz said that the fitz never should have gone out that 75 season as it was not seaworthy it had a loose keel and bad prop shaft and other issues due to years of  defferred maintenance  which was also the reason given by the captain of anther ship that chose to anchor behind a island and ride out the storm instead who was asked for his explanation as to what happened to cause the sinking but he was not called to testify in front  of the board even though he was listening in to the radio coms between the capt of the anderson and the capt of the fitz and then later between the capt of anderson and the coast gaurd  and knew the condition of the fitz before that night  but cause it did not fit the narrative the insurance company and company that owned the ship was using which would put the blame on the crew of the fitz for it's loss  they also paid the families of the crewmembers 500 dollars just to keep it from going to trial  cause the company know they would loose a court trial and would end with the company going under 
at the start it was 3 way blame game the insurance company did not want to pay out the full amount for the loss of the fitz so they tried to place the blame on the ship's owner company and that led to the company placing the blame on the crew then the families of the crew as well as other ship captains and crew push back saying it was not the crews fault and wanted it to go to trial  but the insurance company decided to team up with company and decided to create a a new narritive that would put the blame for the loss on the crew and that is why it never whent to trial and why did not use testimony during the investgation inquiry that went agaist the narritive the insurance and the company that owned the ship was sticking with and several crew members on other ships were appearetly forced into a nda  cause when any of them were  asked about what happened that they might have overhead or knew by people they would basicly get defencive and either turned away and left or tried to change the subject 

the thing is the fitz had issues from the day it was launched  from the champagne bottle taking several  tries to finally break during the christening cerimony to the way the 3 sections were tack welded together instead of rivited to when it sliped into the water from the slip launch it hit the water hard and on it's side that sent a wave to the other side of the dock soaking everyone watching and it cause a guy in the crowd to instantly have a heart attack and die the ship then hit that other dock 
the ship had issues with it's keel for most of it's time in service the and the company would just paint over rust that were on the clamps that held the hatchs preventing some from being able to be used and they refused to put water tight bulkheads in the cargo hold area and only put them were the main crew area in the bow ended and were the main crew area in the stern ended and instead put screen style dividers in the cargo hold they also changed the load lines several times and had the fitz use the summer load lines during the fall season instead of the correct load lines for the fall season cause they wanted to get alot more iron ore and the fitz was already full when they were ordered to pick up one more load that november 
also the 200 feet of center section of the hull that is missing in the wreckage was built by another company somewere else  and not the ship building company that built the rest of the fitz's hull and it was transported to that ship building yard to be added  to give it it's impressive for that time 728 feet 
the prop was damaged in late summer 75 it had a crack going through one of the blades they decided to leave it like that for two runs and in october the decided to replace that broken blade but they never rebalanced it they basicly did it at the dock by pushing the bow down far enough that the stern lifted up enough for them to replace the blade that was the second time they did that as they did it prior when they saw the crack in the blade after words mcsorley noted that ship was not handling right like had prior so that decision to not fix the prop right away and not rebalance it on top of how they accessed the prop two times most likely cause damaged to the shaft as well as the hull and   the all ready loose  keel 
also they had a team of inspectors on the boat for a the last iron ore run of 1974  prior to the repair work that was to be done during the winter layup but a deckhand that was on the fitz early in 75  but was not on the ships in late 75 noted that the issues that were to be fixed like a warped hatch cover was still not fixed after it's mandatory repair work was to be done during the winter layup cause the almost 7 toon hatch was like a diving board if a person jumped up and down on any of the corners it would be like a diving board and spring back up and down 
showing the company that owned the boat did defer the maintenance on the fitz and  they would have had to have bribed the coast guard inspector when the he 5 year inspection that would deem weather or not a ship was sea worthy or not came up to pass the ship and 75 would have been the when that inspection would be done prior to the start of the season 

also if the fitz's bow was pushed down to the bottom  by the waves and storm  a good portion of the ship would be up in the air above the surface since the area of the lake it sank in is  only 530 feet deep so the ship was longer  at 728 feet then that area of the lake was deep 
 

Edited 43 minutes ago by michelle