Assistive technology in model building

[Art Anderson]

Folks,

Jim Haught's editorial (Starting Line in Scale Auto Magazne) this month is all about a contest judge that he observed using a magnifier visor in order to see more closely, the model cars he was judging. Haught's contention is tha this is somehow unfair.

However, in no place, neither in the pages of Scale Auto, nor on their vast forums, in two long threads on the subject, does Jim Haught, by reason of his position speaking for Kalmbach Publishing Company, bother to acknowledge that the contest judge in question may well have needed such assistive technology in order to do what he was called upon to do.

Apparently, Kalmbach Publishing, through Jim Haugt, believes that any evaluation of the results of the work on hobbyists in our field of endeavor can only be made by those possessed of perfection of body and capabilities thereof, which is in direct contradiction of United States Federal Law, specifically the Americans With Disabilities Act, or ADA, not to mention just plain common sense, and the inclusiveness we all like to say we believe in, at least to some degree.

I've expressed my extreme displeasure, not only toward Jim Haught's ediitorial, but his continued "defense" of his position, and have put him, and Kalmbach on notice, in writing, that they no longer have any permission to publish anything whatsoever attributable to me in their publicatons.

Am I wrong in my position? What say you all?

Art

[roadhawg]

I'm with ya, man. First, "an editorial" is just a fancy name for "an opinion", so whatever he says is nothing more than what he thinks....its not right, its not wrong, its just his opinion. I see nothing at all wrong with a judge using a magnifier visor. We use 'em to build, right? Saying its unfair is almost like saying judges shouldn't wear glasses when viewing models!

I haven't seen the article, I doubt I ever will. I'm not sure if Mr. Haught's opinion is very important anyway. I commend you, for standing up for what you believe.

[Zoom Zoom]

Art, to be perfectly honest I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill, especially bringing your argument here. That's totally uncool. If you have problems w/Jim and Kalmbach, take it up with them. Taking your internet fights from one board to another is childish and unnecessary.

[fury3]

Art, to be perfectly honest I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill, especially bringing your argument here. That's totally uncool. If you have problems w/Jim and Kalmbach, take it up with them. Taking your internet fights from one board to another is childish and unnecessary.

I must agree with Bob on this one. What is unfortunate is that many members of BOTH modeling forums actually enjoy this kind of behavior. Some actually thrive on it, it seems. An example: One very active/administrative member HERE very seldom posts in "the other" forum....UNLESS there is some sort of controversial topic/subject where he can state his "I'm right, the world is wrong" opinions (at least that's the way they seem to some across at times. ). Art, by posting this here, I feel you are actually "feeding" these types of members....they eat it up! Being a member of both forums I urge you to take 30 days to consider what has transpired at "the other forum" and then re-evalute your feelings/position. Your knowledge and opinions are valued at both of these forums by me and hundreds of others. Both of these forum's have their negative aspects as well as their positive one's. That's why I belong to both. I participate more in the "other forum" because I prefer their strict policies concerning topics that refer only to "Building better model cars". Does that make them better, or me right in preferring that? No, it's simply my preference, and I'm thankful to have the opportunity to belong to both. We must remember as adults that we are dealing with plastic model cars....it's a hobby and suppose to be enjoyable. There are far more situations and problems in the world today to "get one's shorts in a knot" over then this type of thing. Believe me...I'm disabled and am fighting our government and it's inability to deal with "the color gray" on a regular basis. Let's go build something! Fury3

[Smart-Resins]

I honestly would have to disagree with you.I have judged. I can honestly say when it comes to some models, people build them so near perfection that they appear perfect by the naked eye. Especially to some that posses more years of wisdom! The idea of judging cars is to find the best one. If by the naked eye, there are two perfect cars, then how do you figure out wich one is the best? You can not! So you bust out the mini light and the magnifying glass to look for any flaws if any! On one car, with the magnifying glass, we found a small glue smudge on one car as well as a not as perfect tape line as we had thought. However on the other one, we found a small almost not noticeable finger print in the paint using the light. With the naked eye none of us saw this! But when my friend busted out the assisted tools, we were able to see these. So these cars that otherwise would have tied, wich you are not supposed to have durring judging, we were able to decide. It is very hard to get a perfect line! Like wise, we do not have total v=control over glue no matter how hard we may try! On the other hand, putting a finger print in a not yet completly dreid paint job is controlable. So we knew wich one we felt as though was the winner according to modeler skills. The other one got honorable mention! So we did award him! We did not use these tools to view detail like PE parts ect. Wich both had a ton of PE as well as a ton of scratch built parts. They were again by the naked eye, equal builds! Now when it comes to my cars, you can see the flaws with the naked eye. So I would laugh at anyone breaking out tools to view mine! However when you are talking about professional show circuit builders, I strongly feel as though any help in determining the best is useful! Thanks. Jody

[Harry P.]

One very active/administrative member HERE very seldom posts in "the other" forum....UNLESS there is some sort of controversial topic/subject where he can state his "I'm right, the world is wrong" opinions...

Hmmm... I guess some people think they have all the answers, huh?

But hey, thanks for posting your opinion. I always like to see members of the "other" forum dropping by every once in a while to let us know what they're thinking.

[george 53]

Jeeeze, thanks for tell me, I'll read the editorial. I don't usually, jus caz it IS an opinion. Everybody's got on a them too!

As for Art not wanting them to print his stuff, that's for ART to decide. Good,Bad, or indifferent, NO one can tell him which way to go. Personally I would think their loss is our gain. Funny, but Art does seem ta know of what he speaketh, so I listeneth with pleasure! If that Editor can run his show with an iron hand, well, by george, so should Art! If your not happy with a service, COMPLAIN! That magazines SERVICE to us is to tell us about our hobby, if it doesn't fullfil that service, COMPLAIN! That's all Art's doin.He told them ,Now, he's just tellin us. Thanks Art, I'll read it.

[MikeMc]

Art, to be perfectly honest I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill, especially bringing your argument here. That's totally uncool. If you have problems w/Jim and Kalmbach, take it up with them. Taking your internet fights from one board to another is childish and unnecessary.

I agree with both Art and Bob.

We cannot stop JH from being what he is.....He really thinks SA is # 1.......

and if he thinks like he builds......he needs to SLOW DOWN

Edited July 4, 2009 by MikeMc

[SteveG]

I have to admit that it took the deterioration of my eyesight due to age to discover the Optivisor. Now that I have, I also have to admit that I use it see beyond 20/20 when I build. Is that cheating when I'm building something for contest? I'm now at the point where I can't built without it, contest or no contest. I'm assuming I'm not alone in it's use with the over 40 crowd. What I would like to know is how many younger builders and those who don't need any vision correction use the optivisor or other magnification to build. If it's now a standard item on the modelers workbench like a x-acto knife or sandpaper then why can't a judge use it to do his job at a contest? Personally I don't have a problem with it either way if the said Judge needed to use it or not.

As for Jim and his editorial, if it was written to spark a healthy debate about the use of magnification and our hobby then so so be it. I say if it's fair to build with it then it's fair to judge with it. I do agree with Art that it would nice to know the reason this specific Judge was using magnification but if you follow my logic then does it really matter?

Art, as for your reaction to all this I have to admit that I'm biased. I'm have my own issues with those other folks that I won't mention in a public forum, so I'm probably not the right guy to say if your right or wrong in your position.

-Steve

[fury3]

Hmmm... I guess some people think they have all the answers, huh?

But hey, thanks for posting your opinion. I always like to see members of the "other" forum dropping by every once in a while to let us know what they're thinking.

Hmmm....It seems that when I posted this and the above reply, I was required to "log on" to this forum. Doesn't that indicate that I'm a member here, (although I restrict my limited replies/topics to model car related subjects, hence my low posting count) meaning that as stated above I'm a "content" member of BOTH forums...or is this your way of giving me a subtle hint? If I had "thought I had all the answers" , I sure wouldn't be disabled and fighting our government for 5 years, as well as assisting members of BOTH forums with Chrysler Corporation technical inquiries. Fury3 Edited July 4, 2009 by fury3

[Scott Colmer]

Art,

I have been following that thread at SAE and also replied to it. The point Jim was trying to make - and restated for clarity - was that he felt judges should not use magnifying devices to ferret out flaws in contest models. I disagreed with him. Pretty simple.

Unfortunately, a lot of posters got off topic regarding personal level of vision, and from where I sat it you fell in to that group. Maybe that was a topic for another thread. I surely do not feel there was any disregard for people with less than 20/20 vision. And Jim definitely did not advise excluding anyone with visual aids from participating in contest judging. I bring powerful reading glasses to contest because I can't see detail without them; I did not feel my civil rights were disregarded in any way.

Art, I think you set up a straw man on this one.

By the way, Art - How is progress on the Waterless. Wonderful piece.

A couple notes on the "other" forum. I am grateful that we have at least two major forums to entertain us and bring us together. They are different and they should be. I post at both and like both. I prefer to post here because for what ever reason I feel the atmosphere has been more relaxed here.

Remember, it's only a hobby. It's what we do to relax.

Scott

[Harry P.]

Hmmm....It seems that when I posted this and the above reply, I was required to "log on" to this forum. Doesn't that indicate that I'm a member here, (although I restrict my limited replies/topics to model car related subjects, hence my low posting count) meaning that as stated above I'm a "content" member of BOTH forums...or is this your way of giving me a subtle hint? If I had "thought I had all the answers" , I sure wouldn't be disabled and fighting our government for 5 years, as well as assisting members of BOTH forums with Chrysler Corporation technical inquiries. Fury3

Sorry, F3... my mistake. I didn't mean to imply that you're not a member here... obviously you are, otherwise you couldn't post here. And to tell the truth, I wish you posted here a whole lot more often than you do. I'd rather see you as a regular here than an occasional "guest star"...

[Harry P.]

A couple notes on the "other" forum. I am grateful that we have at least two major forums to entertain us and bring us together. They are different and they should be. I post at both and like both. I prefer to post here because for what ever reason I feel the atmosphere has been more relaxed here.

Remember, it's only a hobby. It's what we do to relax.

Scott

Amen, brother!

[Steven Zimmerman]

Ya know,I had two random thoughts on this one,just as food for thought(grin)....(1),If you /as a judge/ use a magnifier on ONE model,is if fair if you did not then have to use a magnifier on ALL models you judge?....and (2) if the judges use magnifiers at a contest, then should all who enter said contest as participants or spectators,be issued magnifiers at the door? especially if they have a peoples choice trophy?....not advocating this,mind you....just throwin it out for yah(grin0.....personally,I have 20/200 vision(meaning I'm practally BLIND without glasses-when I was in second grade,didn't know signs had WORDS on em till I got my first pair of glasses.......) but I build with my glasses off. I personally agree with Art here,but I thinkyou're carryin it a bit too far,Art..Got more to say,but the Da&n dog hasta go out.....'Z'

[lorider]

What I keep hearing is that this hobby is shrinking (though it seems to be going strong at the moment). But I've never understood the attitude of people being negative against each other when they are all part of the same group. To me, a source of modeling tips, information, inspiration, etc. etc. is a source of modeling tips, information, inspiration etc. etc.

Unfortunately, social psychologists say that if there is more than two people in a group, there is a strong chance of one of them being hated by at least one of the others. It's human nature, unfortunately. And sure, people trying to make others look bad in order to make themselves look good and feel good about themselves has been around since the beginning of time. That's obviously why there's so much hate and anger in the world, something the world does not need more of, especially during these times.

Well, those are just some thoughts on the gossipy old-ladyish attitude of "we're better than you" some people like to live their lives by.

I saw Jim Haught's article as a way of saying that if one judge uses a magnifying optical aid, maybe all judges should. Maybe optical visors should become a standard at contests or have a hard fast rule that they are not allowed at all. Realistically, any model, and it doesn't matter who built it, will have at least one flaw detectable under microscopic scrutiny.

This is a hobby, something intended to be relaxing and self satisfying, like collecting stamps or scrap booking or oil painting. When the pursuit of glory or money is involved, it ceases to be a hobby. That's why there should be no contests. Just opportunities for like-minded individuals to get together, express themselves and have fun doing it. Like the NNL shows.

[Tommy Kortman]

What I keep hearing is that this hobby is shrinking (though it seems to be going strong at the moment). But I've never understood the attitude of people being negative against each other when they are all part of the same group. To me, a source of modeling tips, information, inspiration, etc. etc. is a source of modeling tips, information, inspiration etc. etc.

Amen Brother!!!

Cant we all just get along?

There are some model builders that really enjoy building models for competition. The contest and the gold are the reason they build. I don't have a problem with that. Personally I prefer the NNL style show, where peoples choice determines the out come. With these events, the "cream" will usually rise to the top. You will usually not see a lot of magnifiers and other visual aids at these shows unless it is for personal eyesight reasons. I am not a big fan of the "judged" show. This is when you will usually see the Penlight Nazis come rolling out of the wood work. And it's epidemic proportions at an IPMS show. I guess the problem I have with it is I have seen judges do damage to someones model in their over zealousness to find a flaw in a piece. The 1st, 2nd, 3rd system of judging is probably the worst way to judge a contest in my opinion. When you have models that are so close in quality and detail that you have to break out the lap equipment just to find a flaw, then something is wrong with the system. I think it breeds this type of super scrutiny. There is a much better way to judge a contest. The AMPS (armor modelers) and the MFCA (military figure modelers) use what they call an open judging system. Instead of judging one model against another, they judge them against a set of standards and use a point total system to determine Gold, Silver, Bronze, and a Certificate or Honorable Mention. This way if there are say 20 models in a particular category, and there are 4 of them that are of a top notch calibre, then each of those 4 would receive a gold medal. The same goes for the medals (silver,bronze). While this does not eliminate all complaints, it definitely reduces them significantly.

I guess what it boils down to for some people is that they see the Lab equipment and the Penlight Nazis as something left for the other guys (Armor & Aircraft) and their rivet counters, whereas model cars and their capacity to inspire boundless creativity and use of imagination should be beyond such pettiness. I mean how can you tell a guy that he painted his Hot Rod the wrong shade of Candy Red.

[Harry P.]

I wonder if Jim Haught has an account here.......or if he at least stops by and reads all of his appreciation threads from his "fans".....

I'm sure that SA monitors this forum, and vice versa. Nothing wrong with that.

I read the posts over there, and even added my 2 cents on the issue on their forum (for the record, I disagreed with Jim, I think a judge can use whatever tools he deems necessary to make his/her judgement)... but I have to say that I think his commentary was misunderstood, or misinterpreted, by Art.

Jim was questioning whether the fact that some judges use magnification to judge a model was inherently unfair. He did NOTmean that the use of a magnifier by a judge who was visually impaired was unfair. His comments had nothing to do with people's eyesight, he was questioning the legitimacy of using a magnifier as a judging tool, not their use by people who are visually impaired.

Just thought I'd try to clarify that, so at least we all know exactly what the heck we're arguing about!

[E St. Kruiser50]

When I first read this I wasn't going to respond, but then I thought about how APPROPRIATE this topic is for INDEPENDANCE DAY.

I'm not taking sides here, as model car contest's fairness is an ongoing topic that comes to the surface periodically. I did a post on it about a year ago - didn't change anything .

What I did think about though, was the freedom we have to post these thoughts and differences of opinion FREELY, without the fear of reprisal.

Just really brings home to me the reality of being blessed to be born in this country and have the freedoms we all have and share.

One of the things that comes to mind right now is freedom of choice - to disagree, and do it respectfully, or do it otherwise, and to call each other names and ultimately hurt a hobby we all love.

Bob Paeth, the last year of his life left me a legacy I'm still trying to live up to.

It was pretty simple - look for the best in everyone, and let the rest roll off your back.

He didn't mean don't disagree or have your own opinions, he just liked being a positive part of the human race, and use these freedoms we've been given respectfully and honorably, for the good of others.

HAPPY INDEPENDANCE DAY ALL - dave

[Tommy Kortman]

When I first read this I wasn't going to respond, but then I thought about how APPROPRIATE this topic is for INDEPENDANCE DAY.

I'm not taking sides here, as model car contest's fairness is an ongoing topic that comes to the surface periodically. I did a post on it about a year ago - didn't change anything .

What I did think about though, was the freedom we have to post these thoughts and differences of opinion FREELY, without the fear of reprisal.

Just really brings home to me the reality of being blessed to be born in this country and have the freedoms we all have and share.

One of the things that comes to mind right now is freedom of choice - to disagree, and do it respectfully, or do it otherwise, and to call each other names and ultimately hurt a hobby we all love.

Bob Paeth, the last year of his life left me a legacy I'm still trying to live up to.

It was pretty simple - look for the best in everyone, and let the rest roll off your back.

He didn't mean don't disagree or have your own opinions, he just liked being a positive part of the human race, and use these freedoms we've been given respectfully and honorably, for the good of others.

HAPPY INDEPENDANCE DAY ALL - dave

AMEN BROTHER!!!

[Art Anderson]

I second that, Bob. And, as I stated on the "other" board, I think this is an excellent example of the "I'm right, you're wrong, and I'm going to continue to browbeat you 'til you admit you're wrong" type of thinking that is tearing this country apart at the seams.

And, c'mon, Art ... the threat about putting SA and Kalmbach on notice? Pretty weenie, man, pretty weenie. You're way better than that, IMO.

Sorry, but I don't see it that way. Weenies roll over, play dead, let stuff just go by, regardless of feelings. I didn't attempt to browbeat my opinion into anyone's head, rather I chose to speak up, given Jim Haught's failure to think (publicly at least)that the individual he observed might well have had a disability (normally 20/20 visioned folks don't tend to gravitate to assistive magnifiers, from my 30yr experience in hobby retailing), and that rubs me very much the wrong way.

We are supposedly living in a time when inclusiveness is becoming a cardinal rule, and I would think that general mindset is operative in this hobby as well? I hope so. But, apparently, by the rather curt tone of his column, the editor of that other magazine does not think so. I do think that I have laid out my argument pretty carefully, but apparently, in the opinion of numerous contributors to SA Magazine, I am in the wrong, and some of those I considered to be both friends, as well as talented modelers (which regardless of the resolution of this controversy, I still will!!!).

As for "childish", isn't that a cheap shot? I think so. If standing up for persons in this hobby who may have visual difficulties is childish, immature (which is really what the epithet "childish" is used for by most people) then dang it, I am IMMATURE, not dry behind my ears.

Never fear, I will be on this forum, as well as Spotlight Hobbies, as the administrators of these two forums aren't the object of my ire. But, in doing so, I will stand up for what I believe, certain principles that are indelibly stamped into my hide.

I remain,

Art Anderson (who is a 13 yr old, stuck in an old fart's body, wondering what the hell happened!)

[Zoom Zoom]

I have no issue with discussing the editorial rationally. It's your irrational approach that evoked my response. You specifically asked for it, and you continue with stubborn abandon. I've certainly had my share of irrational moments, and I'd like to think I've learned from them.

I take issue when someone takes a skirmish started on another forum and spreads the cancer to other forums, like this. Especially this one, if you bother to think about it at all. Regardless of what the issue that sparked it is, the messenger ends up committing some level of "forum suicide" because they couldn't keep their emotions in check when lashing out. So you, as the messenger, have to accept the ultimate price of your wrath. Will it be worth all the fuss in a day? A week? A month? A year? A decade? At all?

Jim and Gregg don't badmouth anyone from the opposite "side" on either of their forums, regardless of issue. How about keeping the pollution right where it started, please? Take the issue up with Jim and Kalmbach on their turf. In your grandstanding you want to be the center of attention and personalize it and it forces it into a "no win" conclusion for everyone. I read the editorial, Jim's replies and your replies and to me it seems pretty clear you are on a personal vendetta vs. thinking about Jim's opinion rationally. You seemed to jump to conclusions pretty irrationally, you started throwing out words like "lawsuit". While you were seeing red, you completely ignored Jim's replies, which were rational, and you let rationality go completely out the window when you brought the fight here and elsewhere and when you announced your "grand exit".

You could have simply said "I strongly disagree with the editorial, what think you?" without all the personal anti-Jim, anti-Kalmbach, attempting to be politically-correct histrionics. You used Jim's editorial opinion as a vehicle to spread your discontent at issues far deeper to you personally than the true context of Jim's editorial and replies. I'd like to think that this entire skirmish wouldn't have happened at all had the points been brought out at a public in-person roundtable/debate, rather than via keyboards behind a screen. Many forum skirmishes, presented in person, would never happen in-person vs. behind the cloak of invisibility that communicating on forums or in print gives.

It is because you are taking your fight and spreading it around, especially here, that I find your actions inappropriate. That is not how to deal with this situation. I understand you are mad, but you are not dealing with it in a rational or proper way. Period. I consider both you and Jim good friends and colleagues (otherwise I would have just sat back on the sidelines and said nothing), and you asked for our opinions on the matter, and I'm not picking sides, I'm acting as a mediator and pointing out how I see it. Others have rationally discussed the subject and attempted to put it in the proper context, while you have spread a personal vendetta in an over-the-top manner. You aren't putting your passion for the hobby to particularly good use by spreading the cancer. In this case it's others who may not have your name or stature in the hobby that have the real grasp of the issue, how it has been presented, and how to discuss it in a manner that evokes something positive for our hobby, rather than stirring up an unnecessary fight. You can disagree with someone without hitting the red "nuke at all costs" button that seemed so enticing at the time. Jim's editorial certainly has sparked a lot of thought, including controversy.

[Tommy Kortman]

Your honor? I'd like to request a recess!

Seriously though. This debate about using aids for judging has been going on for quite a while in the IPMS community. Personally I build a little of everything, (cars, armor, planes, sci-fi, figures...etc) and I attend a few different types of contests, so I have seen this debate up close and personal. I really think that while we love to compete, we don't necessarily like to be judged. It becomes especially annoying and personal when you see that someone has to don the apparatus just to pick out some minute flaw that would not be visible without it. (And I am not referring to the visually impaired). I have had discussions and arguments with friends that I know have perfect eyesight, yet become a Penlight Nazi as soon as its time to judge an event. It all seems to boil down to having to judge one model against another. You have to find a flaw so there can be a finishing order. I mean can you imagine someone having to judge cars from some of the modelers on this board and have to come up with an order? How do you judge cars from say Bob Downie, Tim Boyd, Clay Kemp, Bill Geary, and numerous others against one another. This is why I like the open judging system I spoke of earlier. I actually prefer the NNL style above all else. That way there is no one person someone can focus their anger against.

This is a hobby that is meant to be a good time. A way to leave all of the pressure from the real life behind. I think we all need to relax, take a step back, take a DEEP breath and remember...

IT'S JUST A FREAKIN HOBBY!!!!!!!!!

we now return you to your regularly scheduled program...

[Tommy Kortman]

Um, history has shown that its not always a good idea to challenge Jim or Kalmbach on "THEIR TURF" because as soon as the discussion begins to go against their grains, your either get deleted or banned........

Art would be considered lucky if he was able to post a complete sentence about his frustrations, before a mod came along and hit the delete button.............

By the way, and out of curiosity Bob, when was the last time you frequented the SA forum and participated over there?...{if you don't mind me asking...}

Jeff,

Bob has 2 articles in this months SA magazine, so I would say he is probably a frequent contributor.

Look this hobby is small enough as it is without trying to alienate one another.

[Zoom Zoom]

Um, history has shown that its not always a good idea to challenge Jim or Kalmbach on "THEIR TURF" because as soon as the discussion begins to go against their grains, your either get deleted or banned........

Art would be considered lucky if he was able to post a complete sentence about his frustrations, before a mod came along and hit the delete button.............

By the way, and out of curiosity Bob, when was the last time you frequented the SA forum and participated over there?...{if you don't mind me asking...}

"On their turf" could mean a letter to the editor. If you didn't know already, SA is very likely to print letters from people who have an opposing viewpoint. Jim didn't delete those threads as of this morning.

And regardless of the "lock" or "delete" button that's used there, taking fights across borders remains uncool, no matter whose side you are on. One member here was so incensed with one of the moderators here he got banned from both forums on the same day, because he took his fight w/the MCM moderator over there and openly threatened their moderator. Troublemakers are troublemakers, and I tend to remember those of whom stir it up the most, and thankfully this board allows us to put people who we'd rather not deal with on our own personal "ban" list without the need to go crying to the teacher.

I participate infrequently on the SA board. #1 reason I don't participate much there is because I dislike the forum interface/software. Posting here is much easier, first from a user perspective, and second because of the peer group. I'd love to share more there, but the frustration factor doesn't inspire me to make special effort to post there vs. elsewhere. I made my frustrations known all the way to the top, all without histrionics, bad blood, hurt feelings, or cross-border flame wars which seem to be so popular to some.

This is a hobby, it's not a casting call for "Mean Girls II" or an 8th grade lunchroom food fight. All this fighting takes away a lot of the enjoyment of this hobby. With that said, I'm off to the workbench and a club meeting, gladly leaving the information superhighway behind for awhile because of the unnecessary wrecks, traffic, tie-ups, and frustration.

[Greg D]

I don't see anything wrong with it, I wish my work was nice enough to appreciate that close, lol. Like was stated - it's the guy's opinion - where better to discuss it than in a forum where the median on topic IMHO?

I use a pair of +150 reading glasses to build - I may not be able to without them (or else things would take 3 -4 times as long, lol).

There are some weird things in RC scale judging too, the subject is in one judged on "outline" now this is compared to the 3 views used to build the model not to example the factory blueprints.

Static Scale scale planes seem to be just the opposite, there you either mod or it partially comes down to who built with the right kit. I remember years ago what I started as just a discussion with a guy.

I who come from RC Scale and the 1:1 world in aircraft had made the point that WWI planes unless weathered & faded would have a slight semi gloss or sheen to the fabric & dope covering, I have worked with the stuff. There is an enormous amount of photographic evidence also, I am very well acquainted with the effect of lithography on the look of a photo too, I was was a printer for 17 years. Most RC scale contest winners in WWI don't have a pure flat sheen either - aside from the weird outline rule there, all comparisons are done to full scale. This other guy got just plain mad insisting that I was out of my mind and was an idiot. He is considered by many to be one of the best WWI plastic modelers out there.

I made it very clear I wasn't criticizing, just thought it may be a good discussion. This was over 10 years ago - I grew tired of the "politics" and stopped going to my local IPMS, after that some treated me rather "different" - I had questioned "God" in church it seemed like. I personally just thought we missed out on what could have been a good discussion.