Rob Hall Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) I will say at Hobby Bench, those other subjects get more isle's then the car kits do Yeah, I think it's like that at Hobby Depot also. One side of an aisle of model cars & trucks, both sides of another aisle are military & aviation.. my old favorite Colpar Hobbies in Aurora Colorado has both sides of one for model cars and both sides of another for military IIRC...going to try and visit it next weekend when I'm in Denver. Edited April 30, 2012 by Rob Hall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinfan5 Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) So in reality, for this hobby to do die, its going to have to lose builders in all the subjects, not just automobiles, sure the automobile side can die, but it wont take the military/ship/aircraft/scifi/ everything else with it. Edited April 30, 2012 by martinfan5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I think that military/aviation modeling has always been more popular than model cars. Just look at the sheer number of kits offered in military and airplane subjects. Thousands of different subjects, probably a whole lot more than there are car kits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Hall Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I think that military/aviation modeling has always been more popular than model cars. Just look at the sheer number of kits offered in military and airplane subjects. Thousands of different subjects, probably a whole lot more than there are car kits. I do wonder, though, if those hobbies have a similar demographic skew as car modeling has (i.e. a lot more older modelers than younger). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Brian Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I don't think military, aviation, and naval modeling are going away. The only way to have access to these subjects is in scale unless you live near the Army Ordinance Museum an the Aberdeen Proving Grounds, the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum, or one of the few maritime museums. According to conversations with shop owners in my area car modelers are far outweighed by the other three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinfan5 Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I do wonder, though, if those hobbies have a similar demographic skew as car modeling has (i.e. a lot more older modelers than younger). Rob, I think so, but again that is just a guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Anderson Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Rob, I think so, but again that is just a guess Rob and Jon, Absolutely! I can think of two venues: Model railroading, and flying model airplanes. While model railroading had a very large adult component early on, kids, from Jr High through High School were doing this one back in the 50's and 60's. Model railroading has seen several generations of modelers pass through, die off of old age, but as a hobby, it's still going on, and quite stable, thank-you-very-much. What has changed, however, is the "entry level age". Where once kids got into the serious side of the hobby at around say, 12-13, the entry age is now in the 20's. Flying models have changed dramatically though! 60 years ago, it was not uncommon for 10-11 year olds to start attempting to build balsa "stick & tissue" rubber band powered aircraft, and if successful they stuck with it (I suspect the percentage of kids who figured out how to make a plane thus was probably rather small however). By the late 1950's, U-Control (or control line flying models) became very popular: One could buy a Cox .049 (that's .049cid!) for about $3.00, or a McCoy .29 or .35 gas engine for $5 or $6, add to that a kit for the plane itself another $4 or so, add in a couple of $$ for glue and Aero Gloss Dope, and you were off. (Control line planes are those flown in a circle, the "pilot" using a 2-cable system, which handle when tilted up or down, actuated the elevator). Of course, with those planes, in a crash (which happened regularly) the only thing lost as a general rule was the plane itself, engines tended to survive, perhaps needing a new needle valve and of course, a new propeller!). Other areas of flying models back there were gas-powered "free flight", gliders, and the very early RC setups. Today, RC planes DOMINATE that hobby, and the entry level tends to be also in the 20's age range, but it's a hobby/sport that is pretty large (Tower Hobbies got their start in mail order radio control systems and engines, about 1970 or so). My comment earlier about "which generation" are we talking about has some truth to it. Go to many model car contests, and you see teenagers (at least a few), 20-somethings, then guys in their 30's, 40's, 50's and then us seasoned citizens. Right there are at least three generations, possibly four. So my question still remains: What generation are we talking about here? Art Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott - Elm City Hobbies Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Between the licensing cost that the car manufacturers want to produce a likeness of their vehicle, and the cost to go from concept to a mold cut and ready to pump out models, stuff like New Ford F-150, Ford Taurus SHO, Dodge Charger, 2013 Mustang with the "5.0" engine Don't sell enough copies to even think about producing. The only exception in that list is the Mustang, as it would be an easy mod for Revell to do since they already have the basis for the kit. There is a reason that we haven't seen a new pick up truck since the '99/2000 model year....they just don't sell enough of them to cover the costs. Unless the car says Mustang, Camaro, Challenger or Corvette, I doubt very much we will see other modern vehicles kitted again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Hall Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 (edited) Unless the car says Mustang, Camaro, Challenger or Corvette, I doubt very much we will see other modern vehicles kitted again. Which is so boring... I like those subjects, but there are so many other modern subjects that should be kitted also...instead we get '50s Hudsons. Sad times for the hobby. The hobby won't survive if they only target the AARP crowd. Edited July 7, 2012 by Rob Hall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 The hobby won't survive if they only target the AARP crowd. One might argue the hobby is surviving because of the over 55 crowd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Hall Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 One might argue the hobby is surviving because of the over 55 crowd. Yeah, but eventually they will need new blood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinfan5 Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 One might argue the hobby is surviving because of the over 55 crowd. Yeah, but eventually they will need new blood. I agree, the AARP crowd is keeping the hobby going for the most part, Rob, I tired saying that some day soon , the model companys are going to have to start thinking about kitting newer subjects, but my face just turn blue , because it seems that the automotive world stopped when the 60's ended. Oh well, I will continue to give most of my hobby model to the Japaneses companys intell that day comes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adhsdad Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 I agree, the AARP crowd is keeping the hobby going for the most part, Rob, I tired saying that some day soon , the model companys are going to have to start thinking about kitting newer subjects, but my face just turn blue , because it seems that the automotive world stopped when the 60's ended. Oh well, I will continue to give most of my hobby model to the Japaneses companys intell that day comes. Hello everyone, This is my first post on this site but I'm posting to a subject that has become near and dear to me. Yes, the AARP crowd is supporting the hobby but eventually they will be heading for the " Big Hobby Shop in the Sky". Who replaces them? The younger crowd. But kits that are "sorely needed" (50-60 year old subject matter) by the AARP crowd won't cut muster with the younger set. Ask yourself this question: What kits in the near future (5 yrs) will the now 15-20 year olds are going to want to be building? I don't have a crystal ball but I'm pretty darn sure they're NOT going to want build what I call "vintage iron". Yeah, there may be an exception or 2 to that statment but seriously, how many 16-17 yr olds are going to want to build a model of something that was manufactured 30-35 years before they were born? I'm not saying to never release anymore "vintage iron" but we as a hobby need to think toward the future. AND these companies can't keep reissuing the same OLD stuff over and over again and expect to recruit new blood to the hobby. Aside from the near fanatical attention (and money) the younger set gives to video games I just don't think we can keep continuing this trend of ignoring a segment of the hobby that could be a future for the hobby. I, myself, am closer to 50 than 20 but as of now, I don't even look at domestic companies' new releases anymore with the anticipation that there will be something that will be out there to look forward to. Why? Because of all the reissues that have been reissued for the umpteenth time! Now you may ask "what would you have them release"? Well, licensing issues aside, NASCAR. I know that some of us don't like NASCAR but this isn't being aimed at you. It's what would appeal to the younger set. Also, NHRA. Again, some of us may not like the 300 mph billboards but it's not aimed at you. Besides aren't there enough "vintage iron" releases these days to make at least some of us happy? I'd hate to sound like chicken litte but I believe the botton could fall out of this portion of the hobby if the trend continues. I could be wrong but I just believe that in the long run, this sort of "AARP" thinking won't be beneficial for the hobby. Earl P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nboldman Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 What I see trend the most is guys build the era of cars they grew up in. Now I'm am exception to this being at 16 as I build any era of car to my liking. The foose kits for example will be perfect for me and it may be one id build box stock with just a few add ons. This reason being is because I like taking the older style of cars and adding modern touches to it. I also enjoy hearing the storys of the so called "AARP" crowd because it gives me inspiration on what to build next. Such as hearing storys of my grandfather's old 1932 ford jalopy race car. Which I am currenrly trying to replicate. Everyone is goimg to have there own opinions and I think revell could and should add some new releases of more modern cars to their "to do" list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott - Elm City Hobbies Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 As far as Nascar and NHRA cars, I have no doubt that companies would sell oodles of them, however the licensing that the racing bodies want to replicate their cars is just too much. Revell got out of Nascar long ago, and the only ones that Round 2 are producing are simple snap cars...and oh btw, you have to like building a Chevy, because that is all they do. And the Snap Round 2 cars are around the $30 mark, for a snap kit. Even the re-issued Hendrick cars from before the COT era that they said they were going to re-release, are going to fetch north of $30, which I have a feeling is why they haven't seen the light of day yet, because they likely aren't going to sell many. And it is all down to the cost of licensing. With the cars that Round 2 have out, they are getting hit double for licensing, because NASCAR is taking a cut, as well Hendrick Motorsports are getting a cut. I would love to see some new Nascar kits out to reflect the changes, but I am not going to give them $30+ for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62rebel Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 licensing fees are one problem; constant detail changes from year to year are another. how many kits would we have available to us IF each and every annual were engineered separately from it's previous issue, and the owners of that design were not charging a fee for every unit sold? how many designs started off magnificently and devolved into something less over the years, yet the original tool had been recut so many times as to render an original version impossible? NASCAR and other forms of racing are extremely difficult to continuously kit new versions for, as those cars are constantly changing. just duplicating any given car from a specific RACE DAY might involve serious effort beyond assembling a kit from a box. the revenue generated by "collectible" items is now being drawn from the builders in this hobby, and it's tough to argue with the copyright owners over the difference between "hobby kits" and "junk from vendor tents at the races" in my book. they just want to see a paycheck for their logo/icon being used. i won't buy slogan t-shirts; bumper stickers; hats, or anything to wear that has a brand logo because i will NOT pay to advertise for someone else's product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 I haven't read this entire thread, and someone may have already brought this up. Technology MAY bring a new "golden age" for modeling in the near futire. The cost of 3D printing is plummeting as the tech matures, and it's now possible to get a desktop 3D printer for $200 a month or less. Google sketchup is almost free-CAD, and has an extension to convert files created in it to a format that will run 3D printing apps. There is a guy in my local club who is actually making use of this capability and producing some parts that were previously only available if one was a very accomplished scratchbuilder. What this means for any of us who choose to learn a few new skills is that ANY model can be produced with NO TOOLING WHATSOEVER. If you want a Borgward, go measure one carefully, or find blueprints, draw it up in sketchup, and have it 3D printed in wharever scale you want. You can do this today, right now. The cost will continue to come down, and while not acessible to modelers of all income levels, a lot of current stuff isn't either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62rebel Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 that is one avenue that has definite promise, but i foresee having to pay a subscription fee to be able to access the necessary data WHEN the ability to do this actually becomes practical and viable for the mainstream hobbyist. or, worse, being unable to share pics of them because the copyright owner controlling the images exclusively. in other words, the ability to do as we wish will depend on our ability to pay for the privilege of using their "images"..... there are people whose only job is to ensure that somebody PAYS their employer for their property, real or conceptual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 62 rebel, that's an excellent point. However, my understanding of copyright law MIGHT make it entirely possible for a modeler to copy an existing design "for his own enjoyment", rather like CDs and DVDs can be exhibited in a home environment, where there isn't any copying with intent to profit. I mean, you can scratchbuild anything, and the copyright police don't come knocking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjordan2 Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Going back about ten pages or more, maybe model CAR building might dwindle down since there are so few recent 1/1 cars to ignite interest or passion (or invite anyone to actually open the hood), but the military, aircraft and miscellaneous guys will definitely go on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-hermit Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 The biggest problem the car modeling hobby has right now is kids grow up on electronics and don't want to invest the time, money or anything else involved with manually doing anything. I've been a gear head all my life, have a shop, tools, multiple cars & trucks but both my sons were raised in the electronic age and neither showed any interest in working on real cars or models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Anderson Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Hello everyone, This is my first post on this site but I'm posting to a subject that has become near and dear to me. Yes, the AARP crowd is supporting the hobby but eventually they will be heading for the " Big Hobby Shop in the Sky". Who replaces them? The younger crowd. But kits that are "sorely needed" (50-60 year old subject matter) by the AARP crowd won't cut muster with the younger set. Ask yourself this question: What kits in the near future (5 yrs) will the now 15-20 year olds are going to want to be building? I don't have a crystal ball but I'm pretty darn sure they're NOT going to want build what I call "vintage iron". Yeah, there may be an exception or 2 to that statment but seriously, how many 16-17 yr olds are going to want to build a model of something that was manufactured 30-35 years before they were born? I'm not saying to never release anymore "vintage iron" but we as a hobby need to think toward the future. AND these companies can't keep reissuing the same OLD stuff over and over again and expect to recruit new blood to the hobby. Aside from the near fanatical attention (and money) the younger set gives to video games I just don't think we can keep continuing this trend of ignoring a segment of the hobby that could be a future for the hobby. I, myself, am closer to 50 than 20 but as of now, I don't even look at domestic companies' new releases anymore with the anticipation that there will be something that will be out there to look forward to. Why? Because of all the reissues that have been reissued for the umpteenth time! Now you may ask "what would you have them release"? Well, licensing issues aside, NASCAR. I know that some of us don't like NASCAR but this isn't being aimed at you. It's what would appeal to the younger set. Also, NHRA. Again, some of us may not like the 300 mph billboards but it's not aimed at you. Besides aren't there enough "vintage iron" releases these days to make at least some of us happy? I'd hate to sound like chicken litte but I believe the botton could fall out of this portion of the hobby if the trend continues. I could be wrong but I just believe that in the long run, this sort of "AARP" thinking won't be beneficial for the hobby. Earl P Earl, well said. Let me add something here: Just as an example, 50 yrs ago, when I was a newly minted high school graduate and college freshman, on the threshold of being 18, the '32 Ford was a 20yr old car. As such, people were already starting to ask "How long are rodders going to want to build Deuce roadsters? Well, fast forward to 2012, the Deuce is now an 80yr old car, and it can arguably be said that there are, in all forms (gennie restorations, original steel-bodied rods, reproduction fiberglass copies, even reproduction steel bodied Deuce roadsters) MORE Deuce roadsters on the streets today than Ford ever built! Now, given that it's fairly true that "art mirrors life", don't we still see modelers doing Deuces? Yes, we sure do. And while the big boom in this hobby happened just as "baby boomers" hit their early teens about 1959 or so, there is already a solidly placed second generation out here today--kids of the boomers, and guess what, a great many of those guys (and some gals who are modelers) have been building a third generation. Even in the late 50's, not every kid built model cars, although it sure seems as though they did. An awful lot of kids back then at least tried, but only a portion of them stayed with it. And that can be said of each generation or so that has come along since. I'm less than a week from being certified as a 68 yr old, and while I have no kids, technically, I could have easily become a grandfather to near teenagers today--chances are that had I a son, he'd have at least given a model kit a shot, same with a grandchild, and even possibly a great grandchild. However, I think I'm smart enough to realize that just as not every kid in all my years on this planet built a model car, there's no reason to expect that succeeding generations would be any different. As for reissue after reissue after reissue: Of course, in the end, it's pretty much always new product that drives sales, but even at that, reissues of subjects that still have some popularity can be just that extra bit of revenue that helps fund new tooling. Time was, with the exception of recognizable hot rodding subject matter, a model company could not hope to sell very many kits of cars that were more than 2-3 years old--that is how it was 50 years ago. However, as I mentioned above, there are a great many subjects today (a '32 Ford is but one example) that can be kitted, and sold, and sold in comfortably large numbers--and I somehow doubt that will go away any time soon. And given that our hobby is not one that is dependent on "Fortune 500" companies for model kits or supplies, the sheer number of model kit producers worldwide, along with those manufacturing everything else from paints to all the aftermarket stuff one can imagine--this hobby is going to continue for a few more decades at least--surely far after I've assumed room temperature. But to get into "hand-wringing" over what will happen to our hobby when all us current members of it leave this earth--why bother? Go for the gold while we are still here, still able. If some of what we do sticks, so be it, if not, well....I think we all know the answer. I don't think I've ever seen a crystal ball that gave perfect vision into the future, and to me that's OK. Art Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 One thing I've been happy to see is a rekindling of interest in models in the 1:1 hot rod mags, and a good number of younger guys building traditional hot-rods in 1:1. Taking a young person for a ride in something fast and loud and somewhat scary can often open a door to experiencing life in the first person, as opposed to canned virtual "reality". The car model hobby has NEVER excited everyone, but it has the potential to last if WE get kids involved with making REAL things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte's Motors Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 (edited) Bringing back some of the old kits is cool. The question is, What age group is buying them? The model companys will cash in on the old timers social security and those kits will smoke up the sky on their cremation day. Hopefully the old timers, took the time for their decindents. I'll give plastic models 25 more years and the plastic will grow hard to metal and ready for shelves, without work. Hey, that's already showing up in the PLASTIC MAGAZINES today. hhhmmmm. Edited July 8, 2012 by Monte's Motors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-hermit Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 the plastic will grow hard to metal and ready for shelves, without work. Can you say "diecast" ? heh heh heh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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