How important are panel lines to you?

[edward smith]

I have seen so many nice paintjobs out there and such incredible builds but yet, a lot of them don't have their panel lines worked. Why? It just seems or should be a very big part of modeling specially when working with cars. What do you guys think of this and which methods do you employ to make them look right since I have also seen some that are just badly done specially when they are actually "drawn" on there

[Harry P.]

"Drawing" the panel lines in with black ink is a pretty common technique that looks horrible, in my opinion. It makes the panel lines way too dark and gives a toy-like appearance to the model. Panel lines should never be black (except on a black car, of course!). They should be a darker shade of the body color.

One way to do it (I think I first read this in a post by Bob Downie) is to paint the model, then run black ink into the lines, then shoot another couple of coats of thinned-down body color, which covers the black ink, but not completely... the result is a realistically dark panel line without that stark, black, toy-like look.

Marcos Cruz has another great technique for dealing with panel lines. Maybe he'll see this thread and post.

[Jantrix]

I've found that just making things like door gaps a bit deeper with the back of my trusty #11 does just fine.

[cartpix]

_{Are you talking about panel lines filling up with paint or darkening them, like Harry posted about?}

_Jeff

[Aaronw]

Artists oils are another option common among aircraft and armor models. I've started doing it on car models and I like the effect.

Paint black or another appropriate dark color into the panel lines then wipe the oils off. It is subtle and will look like you didn't really do anything, but adds a bit of depth due to just a hint of the dark color remaining in the cracks.

Acrylics are safe from the thinner and oils, but you will probably want to add a coat of Future to protect enamels or laquers

I also agree with Jantrix, rescribing the lines can help a lot, particularly on a kit with shallow lines.

[cruz]

Thanks Harry, that's what I always do. First thing I do even before the primer is scribe my lines with the back of an X-Acto #11 blade partially dull, try not using a brand new one for this, it will go all over the place. You have to work with a lot of patience and very lightly at first.

After that, just use thinned down paint, it has to be very "watery", capillary action will help here. Usually, after this initial step, you will not need to add any more paint but even if you do, since the lines are scribed nice and deep, it will be easy to do it after the body is painted!

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[JustBill]

Very important in my opinion. It can make or break a build. I've been using Cruz's method with fantastic results! Thanks for sharing buddy!

[Guest]

To me, panel lines are one of the most important things on a build and the first things I address on the body. I blackwashed the panel lines on one model and since then,never again! I've never seen blackwashed panel lines that are truly done right. They are always too dark and absolutely kill the look of a model IMO. I always scribe my panel lines deeper with a razor saw or photo etch saw. Sometimes I will have to use a #11 Xacto blade on rounded corners,but I always use a new one when I do. Deepened panel lines give the same effect that is given to real cars. The reason the lines on a real car "appear" black is because light isn't going inside the gap. It's not because they are black. Also when you view those same lines on a real car at a certain angle,they will disappear almost. When panel lines are painted on a model,no matter what angle you look at them, you will still see big glaring black lines. Something else concerning panel lines is to make sure you don't deepen or blackwash the wrong ones. I've seen several models that will have the lines blackwashed or deepened on panels that are actually bolted or welded together.

[Harold]

What I do is complements- if the car is yellow, I mix up yellow, purple and a bit of black acrylics, add water and flow it into the panel lines. If the car is silver, I play off the interior color(same with white and several earth tones). Using complements avoids the heavy, jarring look of straight black.

[Terry Sumner]

We're lucky with car models...there are only a very few lines to work with. On an airplane model there can be 50 or more!

[zenrat]

Just deepening the lines doesn't cut it IMO.

I wash them right at the end with thinned smoke acrylic

[Art Anderson]

"Drawing" the panel lines in with black ink is a pretty common technique that looks horrible, in my opinion. It makes the panel lines way too dark and gives a toy-like appearance to the model. Panel lines should never be black (except on a black car, of course!). They should be a darker shade of the body color.

One way to do it (I think I first read this in a post by Bob Downie) is to paint the model, then run black ink into the lines, then shoot another couple of coats of thinned-down body color, which covers the black ink, but not completely... the result is a realistically dark panel line without that stark, black, toy-like look.

Marcos Cruz has another great technique for dealing with panel lines. Maybe he'll see this thread and post.

Right on point, Harry! When you see panel lines (only those around OPENING panels, such as doors, hoods or trunks) you are actually seeing the body color, in a dark shadow--NOT black! For panel lines, such as that joint between a front fender and the rocker panel, That could easily be very dark, as it is a "tight" joint most times. Other panel lines that would NOT be correct if "picked out" with any darker shade would include the ends of the tulip panel (that sheet metal piece below the rear window, forward of a trunklid, on a 50's or 60's car, given that those seams were always sealed, either with lead or a plastic compound, but not always smoothed off, just a groove in the body surface.

Art

[RancheroSteve]

Wow, great thread! I'm going to try that. BTW, beautiful models and paint jobs, Marcos.

[jbwelda]

i am one who likes inked in black panel lines though i have to say the method harry describes and someone else illustrated looks great, better than what i currently do.

the thing is, yes of course the actual "line" on a body isnt painted black, its typically (like 95% of the time in sunlight) shaded though and i dont care what anyone says, go outside and look at a car, from an appropriate distance to approximate its size in 1/24, and what do you see? i see black. thats with or without sunglasses on: black. this business about it not being black is because it is being looked at too closely and/or the situation is being overanalyzed. maybe its my eyes...i see black. black on yellow, black on blue, black on white, and for as much as one can see...black on black.

>The reason the lines on a real car "appear" black is because light isn't going inside the gap.

agreed

>It's not because they are black.

agreed except some are black.

>Also when you view those same lines on a real car at a certain angle,they will disappear almost.

and that happens about 5% of the time from my SWAG. and if you are far enough away for it to appear approx 1/24 scale size, then it never happens, at least not on a light colored vehicle.

that said, i think i am going to start trying the inking over paint then a couple more coats technique. since i am now using an airbrush some anyway, i think it will work out better than the only other time i tried it, where to prevent paint from drying before hitting the surface i had to flow it on for that "overcoat" and it ended up hiding the panel lines so i couldnt even see them (this was with a dark color but not anywhere near black). so i put that technique on the shelf; thanks for reminding me of it again.

[The Creative Explorer]

If I can be honest; some builders to get results with a pre-wash panelline, but most of the time it does look unrealistic to me.

When I get a body, I scribe the panellines almost to the point where I cut through the plastic, leaving a nice deep and narrow panelline. With all modesty; I think that gives the right downscaled look.

[crazyjim]

QUESTION FOR MARCOS - won't those be covered by the primer coat(s)?

[cruz]

No Jim, those lines are deep enough, paint and primer will not be an issue. Now, if it does happen you still dont have to worry, you can always go back and add paint if necessary.

[W-409]

When talking about different technigues, I've been using a pencil to make panel lines bit darker. Of course before I primer the body, I scribe those lines bit deeper. And after the body is painted, clearcoated and polished, I will make those panel lines darker with a sharp pencil. Simple and easy, looks pretty good to me.

[donkeypuncher76]

Great topic and Harry knew you'd hit with a clean up man, Cruz, that's the was my old man taught me. tips and thoughts like thses make better models and modelers. thx guys.

[W-Machine]

We're lucky with car models...there are only a very few lines to work with. On an airplane model there can be 50 or more!

I hear you, brother!

[Dr. Cranky]

I like these techniques, but what I do often is simply airbrush a dark line all around the panel lines which serves as a way to preshade and color in the lines. Then again I mostly do this when I am doing my weathered vehicles. When I am doing shiny, I tend to use Donn Yost RAPIDOGRAPH pen trick. It works. Marco's tip is wonderful.

[Steven Zimmerman]

I sub'scribe' to the scribe it deeper technique, myself....'Z'

[jaymcminn]

My goal is usually to try to match the panel lines on non-opening parts to the ones on opening parts. Sometimes that involves closing panel gaps on opening hoods, doors, etc. with thin styrene to narrow the gaps. Others it involves slightly widening/deepening gaps on non-opening parts to even everything out. I usually flow a darkened wash of the base color into panel lines to bring out the detail as a last step in a build. Sometimes on kits with poorly-engineered opening doors, I'll glue the doors shut, block-sand the body smooth, and re-scribe the panel lines. I'd rather see a nice smooth line down the body than toy-like opening doors. Research is important,too- not all panel gaps should be the same size, and that should be reflected in scale as well.

[Chillyb1]

I sub'scribe' to the scribe it deeper technique, myself....'Z'

Hey, I thought clever punning was banned on this forum. I should report you.

Anyway, panel lines are both important to me and one of the most persistent challenges of the hobby. I agree that first and foremost deepening the panel line engraving is step one. This, however, is very often easier said than done. For example, try scribing around the fuel filler on the front fender of a Fujimi Porsche 911 or on the headrest of the Hasegawa Ferrari 250TR. I'm not very good at rescribing regardless of what tool I try; some of you get great results with the back of a #11 blade and I love my BMF scriber, but I still have a tendency to jump the groove with disastrous consequences.

I've never had much luck trying to use a Micron or other pen to darken the lines before painting. I do like the preshading technique with my airbrush, but that is not always possible when going for the factory fresh look, my preferred mode of building.

I've tried using thinned Tamiya acrylics capillarily applied after painting a body. But I've ruined more than one paint job that way. It always overflows the gap and I can't wipe it off or sand it off and it sometimes affects the paint. Maybe I should be thinning it with water instead of alcohol?

I'm still looking for the best way to get realistic in-scale panel lines. I've avoided painting any car with light colors because of this problem.

[cruz]

Chilyb1, this is the reason I scribe my lines deep at the beginning right on the plastic. You can even add more wash to the panel lines at the primer stage before sanding the primer itself and before adding your color coats. The deeper the panel lines, the better they will work at the end. Try it with a spare body and a light color, I am sure it will work!