So What does Revell Have up Their Sleeves?

[charlie8575]

In the process they will find these and decide to run them also.

Please, please, pretty please!

Charlie Larkin

(Gen X old codger in training. )

[Brett Barrow]

You know what? I must come across as a ranting, rambling jerk in these threads. Truth is modelers don't understand the industry side of it and probably never will, and I don't mean that to offend anyone. I didn't understand that side until I started working in it and even then it took me years. i guess I do get a little defensive and take things personal because it is personal to me, because I know some of the people who make decisions at these companies. From now on I'll refrain from these discussions, except to just speculate along with everyone else...

Edited April 8, 2013 by Brett Barrow

[Draggon]

What, YOU Brett?

[Greg Myers]

That's the problem, TOO much speculation from people that don't know and not enough from those that do know but wont tell ,insider information,trade secret, secret club, etc. etc.

[Brett Barrow]

That's the problem, TOO much speculation from people that don't know and not enough from those that do know but wont tell ,insider information,trade secret, secret club, etc. etc.

Well when there's NDA's and contracts involved a lot of times those who know can't talk about it. For reals. A lot of the folks working inside the industry as designers are freelancers, and if you get a reputaion as someone who can't keep their mouth shut, you stop getting work. You stop getting work, you stop getting paid... It's a small world, this business, and everybody knows everybody. You could probably count them all without ever taking your shoes and socks off .

[Gluhead]

By all means, Brett, don't let a couple people get you ruffled. I for one find your posts insightful and informative, in what at times can be a sea of "what the f...planet do they live on where they think this".

Ignore them, and keep speaking your mind. Lots of us "old codgers" would prefer to hear it than not.

[johnbuzzed]

Taking the measurements are the first step in designing a model. 24 months is probably a safe estimate considering all they have to create to make an accurate representation, unless they cheat and use parts from the Regal or Monte kits, like the chassis or modify interiors or bodies.

Nice to hear some long awaited kits could be coming our way. Interested to see what else is coming! Funny how Olds is out of business and NOW we start getting kits of them! What's next, Plymouths and Pontiacs?????

Mercurys, too. Seriously, a nice late model Marauder is pretty cool, as are some of those old breezeway back widow Mercs, and I would buy a '67 Cougar XR-7 kit (of current "quality") in a heartbeat.

[niteowl7710]

Well I dunno who got to Brett, but always enjoy sharing my evidentally unwanted and useless opinion and engage in debate with someone who's got the fact and figures to back up his point of view.

Announcements only happen twice a year, the rest of the time all we have to discuss is what they should have made and would we wish they'd make.

But if we don't speculate what else are we going to do around here? Actually build models? Like that's ever going to happen.

[Gluhead]

Actually, I've found that the more I stay out of the General section, the more building I get done. And that's exactly what I do tend to do, especially when I'm not recovering from a heart attack.

I don't, however, see where anyone (or myself) said your opinions were unwanted or useless. Personally, I disagree with your assessment that the Gran Turismo generation is only interested in Tuners and Sports Cars, but I that's about the only point I can think of with you, specifically. If you referring to my "what planet" comment, I use that very broadly. People in general have a tendency to crawl into little boxes and have a difficult time looking outside of them...which at times leads to some very narrow perceptions. That's human nature, though, not aimed directly at you.

[niteowl7710]

Actually, I've found that the more I stay out of the General section, the more building I get done. And that's exactly what I do tend to do, especially when I'm not recovering from a heart attack.

I don't, however, see where anyone (or myself) said your opinions were unwanted or useless. Personally, I disagree with your assessment that the Gran Turismo generation is only interested in Tuners and Sports Cars, but I that's about the only point I can think of with you, specifically. If you referring to my "what planet" comment, I use that very broadly. People in general have a tendency to crawl into little boxes and have a difficult time looking outside of them...which at times leads to some very narrow perceptions. That's human nature, though, not aimed directly at you.

Ahh for as much as I'm sure Brett feels like he's beating his head off a wall around here at times, so do several of us that would like to see more variety. Heck it's not even variety, it's just that I think some models a lot us (old codgers included) expected to see like a ZL-1 Camaro, SS Convertible, a '13 Mustang with the new motor, Boss/Laguna Seca variations haven't appeared.

It makes me start getting leery that Revell may decide we don't need a '13 Viper, '14 Corvette, '14 Camaro, or '15 Mustang either. These are sort of mainstays in the Revell "system" of offering American Sports/"Halo" cars as a given. You put too many eggs in that Oldsmobile basket (even if it is selling like proverbial cakes of high temperature) and you're going to alienate a large chunk of your future customer base. For a lot of "us" (grew up on Monogram & AMT in the 80's & 90's) we all got burnt once with all of the fiddly old tooling Revell kits during that time and I for one didn't buy a Revell kit for YEARS...until they did the Motor Trend Car of the Year Series - Grand Prix, T-Bird & Cougar that was the first signs of cutting edge, state-of-the-art tooling we've come to expect with Revell in the past decade. Not sure how many people will give them another chance if they decide the younger modelers (even if there are apparently only three and half dozen of us from the sounds of it) don't matter.

I'm not, nor have I ever advocated NOT making the '50 Olds or '57 Ford - I have kits of both, and depending on what variations comes next (don't have much use for NASCAR or Drag - just not my bag of chips), I will probably buy those too.

Here's an example of a 4 month period of kits at the end of 2011 into 2012.

As you can see I buy old codger cars too, I'd just like to have less of my late-model vehicles to come from overseas and Germany.

Edited April 8, 2013 by niteowl7710

[Brett Barrow]

Nobody got to me - I just spent all day yesterday actually doing work at the workbench thinking "I like this so much more than being Mr Model Company Defender on the message board"! Believe me, they stupify and piss me off just as much as the next guy, but the view from inside is much different from the view from the outside.

And I realized I have a rather unique perspective - I work in wholesale and retail simultaneously and I am an avid modeler, I started in the business in 2001 when I was 23, all my experience is during this century. I'm probably the only person in the business who can say all that. I'm certainly one of a kind . I'm 35 with over a decade's experience and they call me names like "boy wonder" or "the rookie"!

I'm under 40, and have 0 interest in any American road-going car made since 1971. I look to boards like the HAMB and shows like Billetproof or similar type shows as the market that needs to be tapped into as the next generation of modelers, Revell and AMT already make the types of models that they'd be into, we/they just need to get them into building models and a lot of them already do (the HAMB has a long running Sunday Morning Models thread, and there's a model car show and swap meet at most Billetproof shows) I don't see an awful lot of "AARP members" posting on the HAMB or attending Billetproof shows. And I think Revell sees the potential in that market as well. The fact of the matter is if you're not into rods, customs, or muscle cars, Revell and AMT probably aren't ever going to please you, and except for a short time during the WalMart-funded orgy of new releases that was the 1990's and early 2000's, they never really tried to.

[Brett Barrow]

Ahh for as much as I'm sure Brett feels like he's beating his head off a wall around here at times, so do several of us that would like to see more variety. Heck it's not even variety, it's just that I think some models a lot us (old codgers included) expected to see like a ZL-1 Camaro, SS Convertible, a '13 Mustang with the new motor, Boss/Laguna Seca variations haven't appeared.

It makes me start getting leery that Revell may decide we don't need a '13 Viper, '14 Corvette, '14 Camaro, or '15 Mustang either. These are sort of mainstays in the Revell "system" of offering American Sports/"Halo" cars as a given. You put too many eggs in that Oldsmobile basket (even if it is selling like proverbial cakes of high temperature) and you're going to alienate a large chunk of your future customer base. For a lot of "us" (grew up on Monogram & AMT in the 80's & 90's) we all got burnt once with all of the fiddly old tooling Revell kits during that time and I for one didn't buy a Revell kit for YEARS...until they did the Motor Trend Car of the Year Series - Grand Prix, T-Bird & Cougar that was the first signs of cutting edge, state-of-the-art tooling we've come to expect with Revell in the past decade. Not sure how many people will give them another chance if they decide the younger modelers (even if there are apparently only three and half dozen of us from the sounds of it) don't matter.

I'm not, nor have I ever advocated NOT making the '50 Olds or '57 Ford - I have kits of both, and depending on what variations comes next (don't have much use for NASCAR or Drag - just not my bag of chips), I will probably buy those too.

Here's an example of a 4 month period of kits at the end of 2011 into 2012.

As you can see I buy old codger cars too, I'd just like to have less of my late-model vehicles to come from overseas and Germany.

I hear what a lot of you guys are saying about late-model subjects, I really do. But full-detail model kits take around 2 years to develop, they always have, and probably always will, maybe they could get it down to 18 months or so if they moved tooling and production back to the US. If they were to dumb them down to curbsides they could shave quite a bit of time off the process, but American modelers have come to expect full-detail kits from the American companies (and Revell-Germany as well). So they know going in that they either have to base a kit off of early company press photographs or prototypes (that's how they did it in the old days, except for the promo-era when they were actually receiving design input from the manufacturers) and run the risk of it being inaccurate and representative of just the prototype, or run the risk of it being unwanted and out of date by the time the kit reaches shelves, let's face it now in the internet age we're often sick and tired of the real thing within a couple weeks of it being announced after it's been picked over and discussed ad nauseum... What are the odds folks will still care 2 years from now?

If we could get American modelers more accepting of simple curbside kits of American subjects from American companies I think they would start to look at more late-model choices. It's hard to gauge right now, since the only fair comparison is the AMT Corvettes and Camaro kits based on the DoAllSer promos vs. the full-detail Revell kits, and since they all come in at around the same price-point the full detail kits will most likely win out, plus there were already alternative kits for those subjects on the market (the older AMT glue Camaro and Revell Snap Camaro and Revell's current generation Corvette kits). But when there was no alternative, like when the AMT/DoAllSer Dodge Challengers came out, they did very well until the Revell glue kit came along. I think Revell might be trying to gauge that potential by releasing the Mustang convertible as a snapper, to see how it does when there's no alternative.

[Rob Hall]

I'm under 40, and have 0 interest in any American road-going car made since 1971.

Hopefully there are people in the model industry making product decisions that have a more modern perspective..the American auto industry continues beyond 42 years ago.

[Brett Barrow]

Hopefully there are people in the model industry making product decisions that have a more modern perspective..the American auto industry continues beyond 42 years ago.

There are, I know there are. They all have AARP cards, though, that's the irony of it! I'm the young guy and have no interest in modern cars, and I personally don't know many folks my own age who do, but that may just be the crowd I hang out with, though. We're all into the HAMB and Billetproof stuff like I mentioned.

[Rob Hall]

We're all into the HAMB and Billetproof stuff like I mentioned.

Heh-heh... I'm not into those sites; I thought that was the AARP crowd.

Edited April 8, 2013 by Rob Hall

[niteowl7710]

Brett - is there a reason that Revell (or whomever) can't get the CAD data from GM/Ford/Chrysler? It seems to my recollection that Moebius did the Lonestar from company files, and it managed to get that kit out so fast it rocketed up the release schedule past the Hudson and 55' C 300 (two more kits I own - actually 3, plus the Hudson Convertible).

I get that the promo contract goes to one company, and that company isn't Revell anymore. But is a cost thing? Access? Seems it would be beneficial to all parties to release models of current cars...ya know in the current year.

Again I get that it takes time to cut tools, run test shots, tweak tools, draw decals, make instruction sheets, etc and it magically can't be an idea to a model in 90 days, and a human hand has to be in the kit design no matter the data access point to get the parts to assemble into something.

Just seems in 2013 the EASIEST (and thereby cheapest) thing to produce would be a '13 Viper or '14 Corvette since all of the measuring and whatnot already exists ready to be plucked right from the company itself.

[martinfan5]

Hopefully there are people in the model industry making product decisions that have a more modern perspective..the American auto industry continues beyond 42 years ago.

Well, according to some on here, it does not ( not aimed at you Brett)

Heh-heh... I'm not into those sites; I thought that was the AARP crowd.

I did too

Brett - is there a reason that Revell (or whomever) can't get the CAD data from GM/Ford/Chrysler? It seems to my recollection that Moebius did the Lonestar from company files, and it managed to get that kit out so fast it rocketed up the release schedule past the Hudson and 55' C 300 (two more kits I own - actually 3, plus the Hudson Convertible).

I get that the promo contract goes to one company, and that company isn't Revell anymore. But is a cost thing? Access? Seems it would be beneficial to all parties to release models of current cars...ya know in the current year.

Again I get that it takes time to cut tools, run test shots, tweak tools, draw decals, make instruction sheets, etc and it magically can't be an idea to a model in 90 days, and a human hand has to be in the kit design no matter the data access point to get the parts to assemble into something.

Just seems in 2013 the EASIEST (and thereby cheapest) thing to produce would be a '13 Viper or '14 Corvette since all of the measuring and whatnot already exists ready to be plucked right from the company itself.

I dont get why they cant do it either, if its a cost thing, ok makes sense, do they not have access, ok good reason's too, we know it can be done, Moeibus proved it, Aoshima did as well, so why cant Revell?, I am sure there has to be a reason why, is it because they do not want to invest in the tooling ?

[Brett Barrow]

Brett - is there a reason that Revell (or whomever) can't get the CAD data from GM/Ford/Chrysler? It seems to my recollection that Moebius did the Lonestar from company files, and it managed to get that kit out so fast it rocketed up the release schedule past the Hudson and 55' C 300 (two more kits I own - actually 3, plus the Hudson Convertible).

I get that the promo contract goes to one company, and that company isn't Revell anymore. But is a cost thing? Access? Seems it would be beneficial to all parties to release models of current cars...ya know in the current year.

Again I get that it takes time to cut tools, run test shots, tweak tools, draw decals, make instruction sheets, etc and it magically can't be an idea to a model in 90 days, and a human hand has to be in the kit design no matter the data access point to get the parts to assemble into something.

Just seems in 2013 the EASIEST (and thereby cheapest) thing to produce would be a '13 Viper or '14 Corvette since all of the measuring and whatnot already exists ready to be plucked right from the company itself.

I think it would be left up to the kit designer, and how they prefer to do things. Even with CAD, you've got a lot of work to do to turn the real thing into a model kit, it's not just a simple matter of dividing by 25! I've read about some of the 1:1 reproductions done from 3d scans and data collection and how it took 2 days just to generate the point cloud (something like 8,000,000 data points) then another 80 working hours to convert that point cloud into a workable set of drawings, and that's just to do 1:1 exact reproduction body panels . It's highly likely that a veteran kit designer could do their work just as fast, if not faster, with conventional methods.

And from what I understand, the Big 3 give no assistance with design of the kits, if the model companies want to do it, they have to go find one and measure it on their own dime and own time, whether it's an old classic or a brand new car.

Edited April 8, 2013 by Brett Barrow

[martinfan5]

.

And from what I understand, the Big 3 give no assistance with design of the kits, if the model companies want to do it, they have to go find one and measure it on their own dime and own time, whether it's an old classic or a brand new car.

I wonder why they dont ?

Edited April 8, 2013 by martinfan5

[Brett Barrow]

Heh-heh... I'm not into those sites; I thought that was the AARP crowd.

Seriously, you think some old codger with arthritis and a bad hip wants to ride around in a Model A with buggy spring suspension, loud pipes, chopped and channeled 2 inches of the ground with no insulation, radio, A/C or heater? Those are the guys buying the Vettes and Camaros - they're the AARP crowd!!!

[Rob Hall]

Seriously, you think some old codger with arthritis and a bad hip wants to ride around in a Model A with buggy spring suspension, loud-$#! pipes, chopped and channeled 2 inches of the ground with no insulation, radio, A/C or heater? Those are the guys buying the Vettes and Camaros - they're the AARP crowd!!!

Well, I've been to a few of the Goodguys car shows w all the old cars, and the majority in attendance seem to be the gray haired crowd...

Edited April 8, 2013 by Rob Hall

[Brett Barrow]

I wonder why they dont ?

No money in it. Not enough, anyway .

[Monty]

By all means, Brett, don't let a couple people get you ruffled. I for one find your posts insightful and informative, in what at times can be a sea of "what the f...planet do they live on where they think this".

Ignore them, and keep speaking your mind. Lots of us would prefer to hear it than not.

Well said!

[martinfan5]

No money in it. Not enough, anyway .

Not surprised that it comes down to money

[Brett Barrow]

Well, I've been to a few of the Goodguys car shows w all the old cars, and the majority in attendance seem to be the gray haired crowd...

Billetproof and similar "traditional rod and kustom" shows (usually limited to pre-1964 cars) are pretty much the antithesis of the Goodguys shows. I'm telling you, that's the next generation right there, those are the guys and gals they need to be going after. Like I said before - they already make the type of stuff they're into, and building model cars is a big part of the 50's/60's culture that they try to emulate. Put it into the right boxart with the right wheels and the right decals, and they can get them into modeling with a very small investment. First thing they need to do is stop calling them "rat rods"...