So What does Revell Have up Their Sleeves?

[Rob Hall]

Billetproof and similar "traditional rod and kustom" shows (usually limited to pre-1964 cars) are pretty much the antithesis of the Goodguys shows. I'm telling you, that's the next generation right there, those are the guys and gals they need to be going after. Like I said before - they already make the type of stuff they're into, and building model cars is a big part of the 50's/60's culture that they try to emulate. Put it into the right boxart with the right wheels and the right decals, and they can get them into modeling with a very small investment. First thing they need to do is stop calling them "rat rods"...

Interesting... I have pretty much zero interest in cars from around 1950 or earlier, so I don't really notice the distinctions in the sub cultures....don't care for the rusty 'rat' stuff, but unrestored original or concours restored will get my attention.

Edited April 8, 2013 by Rob Hall

[Monty]

Brett, most of the time I look forward to reading your posts because it's obvious that you're very knowledgeable, well-informed, and you understand the builders' points of view as well as the model companies' perspectives.

Here's where we part company.

If we could get American modelers more accepting of simple curbside kits of American subjects from American companies I think they would start to look at more late-model choices.

I think Revell might be trying to gauge that potential by releasing the Mustang convertible as a snapper, to see how it does when there's no alternative.

Do you realize that, after all these years, I still can't buy a decent 1/24 or 1/25 kit of the most recognizable Corvette Chevy ever made - the '63 "split window"? AMT's entry is obviated by its promo chassis, and despite the fact that Revell has done some other nice classic 'Vettes, the '63 they finally issued is another snap-fit 'tard toy for the I'm-too-stupid-to-use-glue crowd.

And you wonder if you can get American modelers to be more "accepting" about decontented kits by purposely offering no alternative? I'll vote with a closed wallet and two upraised middle fingers.

[Deano]

Not surprised that it comes down to money

What would you expect the motivation to be, benevolent charity towards the hobbyists? Of course it's all about the 'Benjamins'.

[martinfan5]

What would you expect the motivation to be, benevolent charity towards the hobbyists? Of course it's all about the 'Benjamins'.

Of course not

[Rob Hall]

Do you realize that, after all these years, I still can't buy a decent 1/24 or 1/25 kit of the most recognizable Corvette Chevy ever made - the '63 "split window"? AMT's entry is obviated by its promo chassis, and despite the fact that Revell has done some other nice classic 'Vettes, the '63 they finally issued is another snap-fit 'tard toy for the I'm-too-stupid-to-use-glue crowd.

Actually, the Revell '63 snap kit is promo based and builds up quite nicely w/ some detailing effort.

[Danno]

Brett, most of the time I look forward to reading your posts because it's obvious that you're very knowledgeable, well-informed, and you understand the builders' points of view as well as the model companies' perspectives.

Here's where we part company.

Do you realize that, after all these years, I still can't buy a decent 1/24 or 1/25 kit of the most recognizable Corvette Chevy ever made - the '63 "split window"? AMT's entry is obviated by its promo chassis, and despite the fact that Revell has done some other nice classic 'Vettes, the '63 they finally issued is another snap-fit 'tard toy for the I'm-too-stupid-to-use-glue crowd.

And you wonder if you can get American modelers to be more "accepting" about decontented kits by purposely offering no alternative? I'll vote with a closed wallet and two upraised middle fingers.

Any reason you can't buy the '63 split window coupe and kitbash it with the '67 Vette kit?

The '67 is an excellent full detail that would provide all the chassis, running gear, and engine compartment detail you could want. Just fit the '63 body, glass, and interior to it and voila ~ full detail split window!

Or, can't you buy that?

[Brett Barrow]

Actually, the Revell '63 snap kit is promo based and builds up quite nicely w/ some detailing effort.

Agreed, I think the 63 snapper is really nice. It comes from the series of promos that GM Design commissioned Revell to do back in the early 2000's so don't blame Revell, they just did what GM Design asked them to do. It sells well, especially now that it's got its stock wheels back. C2's are a slippery slope, you've got a common chassis, but that's about where it ends, they started with the hot motor being a FI small block, then went to big blocks, every year had a different interior, each year's body had subtle differences, and i think each year's wheel covers were different as well. But it's a Vette, and well, Vettes are a subgenre of modeling all their own. I wouldn't be shocked at all if we get a 63 glue kit one of these days. They've got the proper Fuelie setup now, from the 62. IIRC, the 58/59 had the ribbed intake vs the smooth one of the 62.

Do you realize that, after all these years, I still can't buy a decent 1/24 or 1/25 kit of the most recognizable Corvette Chevy ever made - the '63 "split window"? AMT's entry is obviated by its promo chassis, and despite the fact that Revell has done some other nice classic 'Vettes, the '63 they finally issued is another snap-fit 'tard toy for the I'm-too-stupid-to-use-glue crowd.

And you wonder if you can get American modelers to be more "accepting" about decontented kits by purposely offering no alternative? I'll vote with a closed wallet and two upraised middle fingers.

Does a '63 count as a "late-model"? If so, then I need to find another word to use... A classic is another story, they can take their time, a 63 Vette will still be a classic 2 years from now or 10 years from now or 20 years from now. Of course, still do the classics as full-on glue kits. You'll have plenty of time to get your investment back.

You don't think modelers would go for a $15 snap curbside model that comes out within the same calendar year as its model year, or they'd rather wait another year to get a $25 full detail glue kit?

Edited April 9, 2013 by Brett Barrow

[Rob Hall]

Does a '63 count as a "late-model"? If so, then I need to find another word to use...

'late model' to me means the last decade or so...i.e. since around 2000. Probably varies w/ other people..

[Monty]

Actually, the Revell '63 snap kit is promo based and builds up quite nicely w/ some detailing effort.

And I prefer my kits with full detail, including engines. See the difference?

[Greg Myers]

Yes 1/16th scale, but oh, the detail :

[Monty]

You don't think modelers would go for a $15 snap curbside model that comes out within the same calendar year as it's model year, or they'd rather wait another year to get a $25 full detail glue kit?

I can't speak for other modelers as I despise curbsiders, snap kits & everything else the model companies put out that's been dumbed down or decontented. Is half-a-loaf-or-nothing going to become the new normal?

I used the '63 'Vette as an example of how Revell hacked me off, and how they seem to want to do the same to guys like Rob & Jonathan who're demanding newer cars. If they're interested in the car, let 'em build the whole thing, including the engine.

[Monty]

'late model' to me means the last decade or so...i.e. since around 2000. Probably varies w/ other people..

I'm fully aware of the meaning of "late model". My point was that if Revell could dumb down a model of a car that most auto enthusiasts would consider iconic, do you think the Gen Y guy is going to be elated when you finally ussue a non-AARP-mobilecar he feels passionately about, only to find it's a 12-piece snapper?

[Gluhead]

Digressing a page or so...

If anyone really thinks that the HAMB and Billetproof are the old farts club, you need to give yourself a very large Gibbs-style smack on the back of the head. You could not be more mistaken. Go to the back of the class. Do not pass "Go" and do not collect the $200.

Now this is one of those times I am thinking "what planet are these people from?"

[Exotics_Builder]

I would ask that you consider dropping this AARP designation as a way of assigning tastes. I happen to be in the AARP range and like newer and some older cars. FOr example, I haven't bought the 50 Olds or 57 Ford. I like some of the older cars whereas some don't float my boat at all.

[Brett Barrow]

Digressing a page or so...

If anyone really thinks that the HAMB and Billetproof are the old farts club, you need to give yourself a very large Gibbs-style smack on the back of the head. You could not be more mistaken. Go to the back of the class. Do not pass "Go" and do not collect the $200.

Now this is one of those times I am thinking "what planet are these people from?"

Yeah, here's a '62 T-Bird pic I have saved in my inspiration folder. The owner/builder is a 22-year old kid. That is Billetproof... A newer pic w/ owner. Car now has wires with pinners and flaked and paneled roof.

Edited April 9, 2013 by Brett Barrow

[Brett Barrow]

I would ask that you consider dropping this AARP designation as a way of assigning tastes. I happen to be in the AARP range and like newer and some older cars. FOr example, I haven't bought the 50 Olds or 57 Ford. I like some of the older cars whereas some don't float my boat at all.

Sorry, "AARP crowd" is somebody else's pet phrase. I use it only for sarcastic effect.

[martinfan5]

Gerry, I know I used it to be sarcastic as well, but I do apologies , I was not trying to offend anyone

Edited April 9, 2013 by martinfan5

[niteowl7710]

Yeah, here's a '62 T-Bird pic I have saved in my inspiration folder. The owner/builder is a 22-year old kid. That is Billetproof...

Looks like an AMT '62 T-Bird collided with a Revell California Wheels rim delivery truck to me. 22 year old ehh? Good for him, I admire his tastes in T-Birds, but he's either the most talented body guy and mechanic in recent history, or he's a rich kid with deep pockets. Checkbook "restorations" don't impress me much (to channel my inner Twain).

[Rob Hall]

Nothing wrong w/ well done curbsides, many Japanese kits are curbsides. Doesn't bother me if it's well done, though I usually prefer full detail. But if a curbside is the only choice for a given subject, I'm fine w/ that.

Edited April 9, 2013 by Rob Hall

[High octane]

I guess that I'm "good to go" as far as new or reissued kits are concerned, because as long as I have a huge stack of unbuilt kits to build, I really don't care what kits come out or which kits don't come out. There are some guys with 500 unbuilt kits concerned about the latest releases? Give me a break!

[martinfan5]

Nothing wrong w/ well done curbsides, many Japanese kits are curbsides. Doesn't bother me if it's well done, though I usually prefer full detail. But if a curbside is the only choice for a given subject, I'm fine w/ that.

Thats pretty much how I feel, if I had a choice, of course its full detail, but sometimes we have to take what we can get. I guess it really comes down to what the subject is and how bad I want it, would it determine how I would feel about the detail or lack of it.

Nick, I am not even at 100 kits in the stash yet, barely at 50, but I am open to donations

[Exotics_Builder]

Sorry, "AARP crowd" is somebody else's pet phrase. I use it only for sarcastic effect.

I know YOU meant it that way. But your post #203 does make the point on age and taste. At the 2011 IHOBBY Expo (Revell and Round 2) and the recent Ferrari Expo (Revell only), the following points stick in my mind:

• 50,000 units sold to BREAK EVEN (that includes variations).
• There are less R&D dollars today than even five years ago and the review/approval process more complex.
• The manufacturers are not as friendly as they were in the halcyon days.
• Die casts do dig into the market, particularly for more current kits. This may change as the costs of the metals for die cast is getting pricier than the cost of styrene.
• Promo type/snap kits are very popular and a way to hopefully introduce new modelers (and if you look at Aoshima/Fujimi, a lot of their models are curbside.
• Licensing continues to be more and more of a big deal.
• The manufacturers cannot afford too many “flops”
• They do a large and varied amount of market analysis through surveys, attending events, trolling message boards, interacting with distributors, etc.
• The big-box stores were a mixed blessing. Yes, you could get large orders but at a bigger discount and what they wanted you to produce.

As a business person I can understand a lot of the above. I just retired last week, but during my career, reviewing projects and benefits and going through the trap line to get go-ahead sometimes took months. And I am not just talking multi-million dollar projects. And please don’t get into the MBA thing. I have an MBA as well, but, in my experiences, there are a lot of morons that also carry that title. But, if you are betting a company on investments, as new models would be, there is a lot of sweat and agony going on.

As a modeler, I think that STINKS, especially when some of the models I would like to see don’t appear. But, at least some group of modelers gets to enjoy new issues. I keep hearing raves about the 50 Oldsmobile and 57 Fords and that they are selling quite well. That’s great for that group. I hope the next set of releases will have something more for me.

[Brett Barrow]

Looks like an AMT '62 T-Bird collided with a Revell California Wheels rim delivery truck to me. 22 year old ehh? Good for him, I admire his tastes in T-Birds, but he's either the most talented body guy and mechanic in recent history, or he's a rich kid with deep pockets. Checkbook "restorations" don't impress me much (to channel my inner Twain).

Or he could just be an apprentice working in a body shop in California who built the car himself with help from his buddies in his car club*. And those wheels are Astro Supremes, those are not "California Wheels". Those are seriously old-school and totally period-correct for this type and style of car.

*and that's exactly what he is, his name is Mario Meza-Murillo. Seriously, spend a little time on the HAMB, lots of bartering, trading, and buddies helping buddies. These aren't Boyd Coddington or Roy Brizio or Chip Foose billet everything trailer queen street rods, these are low buck daily drivers. That's the two big rules of Billetproof - No billet (or course) and you have to drive it into the show grounds - no trailers.

[Casey]

I can't speak for other modelers as I despise curbsiders, snap kits & everything else the model companies put out that's been dumbed down or decontented. Is half-a-loaf-or-nothing going to become the new normal?

I used the '63 'Vette as an example of how Revell hacked me off, and how they seem to want to do the same to guys like Rob & Jonathan who're demanding newer cars. If they're interested in the car, let 'em build the whole thing, including the engine.

Revell's SnapTite kits are not aimed at experienced builders. They exist to get newer, less experienced builders buying and building Revell kits, until they have enough experience to advance to full-detail, glue together kits. A few of the SnapTite kit subjects might appeal to more advanced builders, so as an additional bonus to some, the '63 Vette and '57 Bel Air Hardtop both provide the body for kitbashing with Revell's other existing full-detail glue kits. The '63 Vette and '57 Bel Air SnapTite bodies are excellent, perhaps the best done to date, so I can understand how it can seem Revell is "teasing" the more advanced builder with them, but I don't think that's the case at all. Offering kits which appeal to people who want a higher level of detail but lack the skill (or patience) to complete and paint (the #1 most intimidating factor) a full-glue kit isn't an attempt to alienate more experienced builders, but rather an attempt to cover more bases and appeal to a wider potential customer base.

I don't see how it hurts Revell to market the '70 Chevelle and '77 Monte Carlo as promo style kits to less experienced builders, though. The Monogram Revell 1/32 scale SnapTite line is aimed at kids with zero experience, and offers far less than the 1/25 scale SnapTite line, so in essence the 1/25 SnapTite kits could be viewed as part of a progression, bridging the gap between the ultra simple 1/32 kits and the more complex full-detail glue-together kits.

I've purchased the '77 Monte, '57 Bel Air, and '63 Vette for the wheels alone, and would do so again if Revell made more of the same. They've also subtly modified the SnapTite kits over the years, with the '63 Vette coming in both coupe and convertible varieties, with lo-pro tires/American Torq Thrust II wheels and stock full wheel covers respectively, and the '77 Monte has done duty as both a lowrider, street machine with some nice Shelby style wheels, and now has stock Rally wheels.

[LoneWolf15]

Or he could just be an apprentice working in a body shop in California who built the car himself with help from his buddies in his car club*. And those wheels are Astro Supremes, those are not "California Wheels". Those are seriously old-school and totally period-correct for this type and style of car.

*and that's exactly what he is, his name is Mario Meza-Murillo. Seriously, spend a little time on the HAMB, lots of bartering, trading, and buddies helping buddies. These aren't Boyd Coddington or Roy Brizio or Chip Foose billet everything trailer queen street rods, these are low buck daily drivers. That's the two big rules of Billetproof - No billet (or course) and you have to drive it into the show grounds - no trailers.

He did one helluva job ! He and his friends are to be commended for it . Miss those days , no doubt about it . With my group , it was 4 wheel drive trucks and vans and we all worked together on each others rides ! Sigh ! Lol !