Is our hobby, growing or skrinking?

[Art Anderson]

This is a great thread. I really have nothing to add except for my observations.

• I will pay 25 or more bucks for a new model release. I would not have 10 years ago..
• I've seen more releases that interest me in the last 5-7 years (since Wal-Mart stopped selling models) than I did in those days. If I'm a logical thinker I'd think that maybe the big box 5 and 10 dollar kit sales did nothing to help the model companies, or the avid car modeler....I'd have never thought that at the time.
• I buy mo more or no fewer models than I did when Wal Mart or Kay Bee toys (etc) sold kits, thanks to the internet.
• I'm almost 49 yeas old, and usually in the lower range of the age of guys are at the (2) shows I attend.

I definitely feel that its one of the best times to be a model builder. I also think that when I croak (hopefully at an old age. gluing an engine block together with a tube of Testors glue in my hand, If there are no more younger modelers than there will be on car modeling hobby. I also do not feel an obligation to pass the hobby. Though in my heart I'd sure home future generations can enjoy this as much as I have.

Out of what? 3000 models on the table at NNL east? How many are younger modelers (kids) ? 30 ? maybe ? 1% ? (not sure the actual number but its not a lot).

I was into modeling as a kid, then slowed dramatically in my late 20s to my mid 30s, then back again strong at 35 or so. But I had a base...an existing interest. That base no longer exists. I have many friends that are car fanatics who are not at all interested in building. I don't get that.. One guy still has a ton of models form when he was a kid but no interests in building them (and yes I;ve bugged him to sell them to me but he's keeping them LOL)

I still think that the hobby is shrinking in numbers of people into it, though not in the dollars spent. Agree with others that its due to older guys like me willing to spend more;. Again...I have no quantitative data to back it. Like Harry said, this is what these boards are for right ?

Now go buy a model. I'm going to.

JJ

True,

But, if one looks around at shows, there are a lot of 20's adults, and Id bet many of them entered this hobby either late in HS or soon after. In addition, a child or teenager who builds models isn't always the son or daughter of a currently active model builder--kids like that don't have an automatic ride to an NNL or a contest.

Art

[niteowl7710]

True,

But, if one looks around at shows, there are a lot of 20's adults, and Id bet many of them entered this hobby either late in HS or soon after. In addition, a child or teenager who builds models isn't always the son or daughter of a currently active model builder--kids like that don't have an automatic ride to an NNL or a contest.

Art

I started building "real" (read glue) models when I was 8, but it was my mid-teens before I could convince my parents to drive me to a show/contest. Even then it was only after I actually turned out to be "good" (or perhaps lucky) enough to win something that they would take me to a couple of local shows. There was only a two-three year window when I had a license and a car that I could go to any show I wanted to before real life, real cars and girls took over and I managed to only get to the NNL in Toledo as it was the closest show I knew about living in Cleveland. Getting my parents to take me to the NNL when I was 16 was an epic battle that in. the end I won (we went), but I remember being at the toy show the next day totally broke (as a 16 yr old would be) .

It would take from 2000 until 2006 before I went to another show, and only in the past 3 years have I regularly gone to the same docket of shows annually.

[Richard Bartrop]

Was there ever a TV ad for model cars? l have not ever seen one if there was. l do agree with Bill, Revell did get alot of advertising with Stacey David and the model contest.

The only TV ad I can think of for model kits of any sort were for Bandai's Gundam kits.

[Richard Bartrop]

I just had an evil thought. With the advent of 3D modeling and affordable printers, maybe this will be the catalyst to bring younger people into modeling. Now that they can create things on the computer and bring them to life in plastic, that might just be the lure to start a whole new generation of modelers! Thoughts?

I agree. There's already a very healthy interest in making and modifying models for games. The youngsters haven't given up on modeling, they've just gone to a different medium.

3D printing is also a very good thing for the older set because, as has been mentioned many times before, while the unit cost on injection moulding is very low, the setup costs are very high, so if you want a model, a lot of other people have to want one too. 3D printing is just the thing for all those subjects that we may really want, but maybe nobody else does.

[Tom Geiger]

But, if one looks around at shows, there are a lot of 20's adults, and Id bet many of them entered this hobby either late in HS or soon after. In addition, a child or teenager who builds models isn't always the son or daughter of a currently active model builder--kids like that don't have an automatic ride to an NNL or a contest.

Very true. The kids you see at formal model shows tend to be the sons of modelers. And they have Dad's influence, and access to a major collection and workshop for their builds. In fact their builds rival that of many adult builders.

In walks some poor kid who has coaxed his mother to bring him to a show. He has a box stock build, built with as much care and know how he has figured out on his own. It's brush painted from Testors bottles and assembled with Testors glue, with it showing on glass and a few other areas. Just how does that kid feel seeing the other models on the junior table? Enough to give up modeling all together!

I never did get to a model show when I was a kid. I saw them in Model Car Science Magazine and would have killed to attend one, but we lived in Europe at the time. My father did take me to coin and stamp shows and even participated in the hobby with me. I was collecting Lincoln pennies, and Roosevelt dimes, and he was collecting Jefferson nickels.

I finally got to a model car show as an adult. I went to NNL East Three and was instantly hooked on the hobby once again. And by NNL East Four I was on the show committee.

Edited September 2, 2013 by Tom Geiger

[clovis]

This thread is an interesting read.

One thing that I'd like to add is the severe decline in model entries at the county 4-H fairs. The decline is shocking, to say the least.

When I was in 4-H, back in the 80's, there were so many model entries that the fair board had to build even more shelves. I'm not talking about a small shelf. We're talking 60 feet of shelves, with three tiers, plus the floor, and there still wasn't enough room for all the entries.

There are several reasons for the decline, but the biggest hit was taken when Walmart quit selling kits many years ago. When I talk to other 4-H parents, I hear the same complaints time and time again:

1. "There is no place to buy a model around here."

2. "We went to HobbyTownUSA. Have you seen the prices for models? They want $75 for ship model!!!"

And truthfully, they are right. The nearest store is a 20 minute drive, and the prices are high, at least at one store.

I am not a supporter of Walmart, but this hobby took a hard hit when they dropped models from their stores.

You see, I believe that the $8 model purchased at Walmart was the gateway to becoming a model builder for many years afterwards. Not everyone is going to stay with models, but a fair percentage is going to graduate to better and more expensive models over time. Without the mass merchandisers, we are losing generations of model builders, day after day.

For instance, when I first tried to encourage my 8 year old nephew to build for the fair, is first reply was "Build a model? Of what? Why would I do that?", and then he ran off, and returned with a handful of die cast cars he owned. "See, I don't have to build cars. I have some already."

Then, his mother, said "I am not driving to ___________, and I am not going to spend a fortune on a model, just so he can enter it in the 4-H fair."

[Dave Ambrose]

Brett,

I'd suggest that you are far more right than wrong in your assessment. Rather than use the terms "passive" and active--I submit that the terms introverted and extroverted model builders probably best describes both sorts. Over the years, both directly in some aspect or another of the hobby business, I've heard more than my share of model car kit buyers simply stating that their's is a "closet" pastime--due to an at least perceived ridicule from friends or associates about their continuning to "play" with children's toys--something I can remember being teased about by more friends, relatives and acquaintances than I care to remember about. For other "introverted" or "closet" modelers, theirs' is a hobby they prefer to enjoy in complete privacy--truly a bit of an escape from the cares and stresses of everyday life (probably most of us do that too, but some people take it to a more extreme level, it seems).

Art

I think the ridicule factor is higher than we'd like to believe. A few years ago, I caught a ration of ummm, advice from a family member regarding my daughter's model building activities. It was something along the lines of "gender appropriate" activities. After checking the year on my calendar, I decided to ignore it, but clearly, it's out there. BTW, my daughter is in her twenties.

Most of the people who hear of me building models think it's a cool and interesting hobby. Then again, I'm a software engineer. I'd probably get a different reaction in a law office.

I'm surprised that no company has publicly made a case that model building is educational. I was talking to the father with a young child and he latched on to that concept immediately. If you get into the right places, that concept could get a lot of traction.

[sjordan2]

It has seemed to me, over the years, that different types of modeling have different types of evaluations from non-modelers. It's always been something of a stereotype that it's cool for grandpa to be building ships, especially those with lots of rigging, and maybe aircraft. Cars, on the other hand, seem to be regarded as more of a teen interest, especially rods, customs, dragsters, muscle cars, etc. Model trains are a whole different time-honored category for adults, and I have no idea how the many other categories of plastic kit building might be judged by others.

[LoneWolf15]

Yeah, aside from the contest scene, I guess you're right!

This is like saying that the sun is a little warm 5 miles away from it's surface ! Lmao !

[Harry P.]

I'm surprised that no company has publicly made a case that model building is educational.

I'm not picking a fight... but how exactly is model building educational?

I can buy that as far as people who do a lot of research for their project, like military builders. Yeah, they might learn something along the way, even if only by accident! But the general casual model car builder? I doubt they are learning anything by building a model... especially when you see some of the bone-head mistakes made by many builders that could have been avoided by doing a simple image search before building. My guess is that to the vast majority of model builders (not "forum types" like us but "regular" builders) aren't learning a whole lot of anything while slapping together a model kit.

[Tom Geiger]

I think the ridicule factor is higher than we'd like to believe. A few years ago, I caught a ration of ummm, advice from a family member regarding my daughter's model building activities. It was something along the lines of "gender appropriate" activities. After checking the year on my calendar, I decided to ignore it, but clearly, it's out there. BTW, my daughter is in her twenties.

Most of the people who hear of me building models think it's a cool and interesting hobby. Then again, I'm a software engineer. I'd probably get a different reaction in a law office.

My daughters are also in their 20s. Back when they were kids, both of them built a model or two with Dad. I think it was more the craft aspect and spending time with Dad in his workshop and getting to touch all the neat tools and paints. Neither is into cars or car models today, but both still enjoy crafts and like to make personalized gifts. And building a model didn't alter their gender identification at all!

It is interesting to see what adults today think about the fact that we still build models. Off the top of my head I can think of four lawyers who build models. And I'm always amazed at the variety of professions in the hobby. With the public, a bit of education clears up any misperception of us drooling as we hammer on a snap kit. I recently brought my 1965 Chevy pickup to a meeting of a professional networking group I belong to, and passed it around the table. This group is for business leaders at Director to VP levels. Once they saw the quality and attention to detail they instantly got it that this is my art and a great stress reliever.

[niteowl7710]

I'm not picking a fight... but how exactly is model building educational?

I can buy that as far as people who do a lot of research for their project, like military builders. Yeah, they might learn something along the way, even if only by accident! But the general casual model car builder? I doubt they are learning anything by building a model... especially when you see some of the bone-head mistakes made by many builders that could have been avoided by doing a simple image search before building. My guess is that to the vast majority of model builders (not "forum types" like us but "regular" builders) aren't learning a whole lot of anything while slapping together a model kit.

I'm thinking he means it in a more existential big picture learning, like spatial reality, problem solving, ability to read schematics and understanding assembly, and the ability to think in three dimensions.

None of it is going to make your SAT scores higher per se, but there are some life skills in there that are handy to have. Especially considering the fact that the knock-down furniture they sell these days tends to have "instructions" that look like they were scrawled on the back of a cocktail napkin after Happy Hour without a word of English to be found.

[Tom Geiger]

I'm thinking he means it in a more existential big picture learning, like spatial reality, problem solving, ability to read schematics and understanding assembly, and the ability to think in three dimensions.

Add to that project planning, learning automotive terms and how they are assembled, patience, perseverance, eye to hand coordination, familiarity and skill with hand tools, developing artistic abilities, honing reading skills, follow through and the satisfaction of completion! I'm sure there are many more.

Back when I was in high school, I was a big stamp collector. A teacher in a local school asked me to help her start a stamp program for 4th and 5th graders. She found that the reading abilities of the group had grown greatly that year since we motivated them to research and write about the stamp subjects.

[Harry P.]

...learning automotive terms and how they are assembled...

Model cars don't go together like a real car. And on top of that, many model kit instruction sheets incorrectly name the components. The only thing you can "learn" from most model instruction sheets is how to put that particular model together. There's not much correlation with the real car.

[Harry P.]

I'm thinking he means it in a more existential big picture learning, like spatial reality, problem solving, ability to read schematics and understanding assembly, and the ability to think in three dimensions.

If you want to define the "educational" aspect of model building in that way, I can agree with that. But I doubt there's much, if any, subject-specific learning going on for most modelers.

[tktom24]

Harry

It is the bonehead mistakes, that are the education.

[Harry P.]

Harry

It is the bonehead mistakes, that are the education.

Only if you learn from them and don't keep repeating them over and over (as most casual–and many "serious"–builders do).

But think about it... if you're the kind of model builder who doesn't bother doing any research and your model has a "magic floating alternator" or any other bone-head mistake, for example... what's going to change for the next model? What light bulb would go off in your head telling you "Hey... I guess a real alternator can't float in space like that after all!"

[Tom Geiger]

Model cars don't go together like a real car. And on top of that, many model kit instruction sheets incorrectly name the components. The only thing you can "learn" from most model instruction sheets is how to put that particular model together. There's not much correlation with the real car.

As a kid I learned the names for all the components and where they went on the engine, chassis etc from reading those old Revell instruction sheets. Wanting to build better models when I was 12-13 peaked my interest in 1:1 cars and I had my father explain just what a master cylinder was and how it functioned.

[johnbuzzed]

The "educational" part can the ability to realize one has made a boneheaded mistake and take the appropriate action to avoid making such mistakes in the future. This might not be rocket surgery or brain science but many of those lessons that can be learned from building models can be applied to life in general, e..g.: Patience is truly a virtue. Do some research. Sometimes it really does help to follow instructions. Relax. If at first you don't succeed... Practice makes perfect (well, a lot better than when you started). Et al.

[Chris White]

As a kid I learned the names for all the components and where they went on the engine, chassis etc from reading those old Revell instruction sheets. Wanting to build better models when I was 12-13 peaked my interest in 1:1 cars and I had my father explain just what a master cylinder was and how it functioned.

If it wasn't for my love of cars when I was a kid, I don't think I would have learned as much as I did. Today I am a service manager of one of the busiest dealerships in Toronto, don't tell me we can't lean from modeling

[charlie8575]

Was there ever a TV ad for model cars? l have not ever seen one if there was. l do agree with Bill, Revell did get alot of advertising with Stacey David and the model contest.

I remember seeing one from AMT c. 1998.

Charlie Larkin

[kalbert]

Harry I don't know why your'e trying to make this about how much better you are than the "casual" modeler. We get it. You don't think the "casual" modeler is doing anything more than slobbing glue and paint on kit parts and sticking them arbitrarily together without thought, premise, or goal, and is certainly not interested in aspiring to build this model better than their last, nor capable of identifying misprinted information in the instructions. The comment about building models being educational need not be berated, you made your point.

[Harry P.]

Harry I don't know why your'e trying to make this about how much better you are than the "casual" modeler. We get it. You don't think the "casual" modeler is doing anything more than slobbing glue and paint on kit parts and sticking them arbitrarily together without thought, premise, or goal, and is certainly not interested in aspiring to build this model better than their last, nor capable of identifying misprinted information in the instructions. The comment about building models being educational need not be berated, you made your point.

My comments about "casual" modelers who slap kits together with minimal, if any, research, was about just that–Casual modelers who slap together kits without doing any research.

I wasn't "berating" the comment about model building being educational. I was saying that I don't agree.

We're all allowed to have an opinion... right?

[Rob Hall]

As far as modeling being educational, the process of researching a build definitely is...I've put the time and effort in researching the particular car I'm building a kit of, finding photos of 1:1s online or in magazines, determining the correct engine colors, body and interior color choices, and learning about subtle differences between trim levels, body styles, model years, etc.

[martinfan5]

I am going to add to what Rob said, we all learn new things with this hobby, while most of what we learn for the most part only pertain to the hobby, but we are still learning new things, and knowledge is power, and makes us better .

How many of you guys have come here to this forum or any other model forum, or for that matter Google because you were seeking information on how to do something when its comes to building models? and I am sure you learned something, right?, so while building models may not be educational in the true sense of education, we are all learning new things on how to build better models. I am sure there are a lot of us that when we starting building models did not have the first clue on how to do award winning paint jobs if you will, but you learned by seeking out the knowledge on how to do better paint jobs.

I will agree that what we learned to help us build better models will not help us in other forms of our life, but we are still learning new things

Edited September 4, 2013 by martinfan5