bpletcher55 Posted November 11, 2013 Posted November 11, 2013 I,M GOING TO WEIGH IN ON THIS TOPIC , I LOVE THE IDEA OF RAT RODS BUT HATE THE TERM RAT ROD ,AS SOME OF YOU MAY KNOW I,V BUILT A FEW ,I LIKE THE IDEA OF BUILDING SOME THING OUT OF WHAT EVER PARTS YOU CAN GET AND THE IDEA OF NOT PAINTING IT IS PART OF THE THEME OF BEING ON A BUDGET , IF I WAS A LATE TEEN OR EARLY 20,S SOME THING BACK IN THE 40,S /50,S I WOULD HAVE BUILT SOME THING LIKE WHAT WE CALL A RAT ROD ,BECAUSE THATS WHAT I COULD HAVE AFFORDED , I,M SORRY BUT LIKE THEM ,
Harry P. Posted November 11, 2013 Posted November 11, 2013 It's also true that there ARE many rat-rod-looking vehicles out there that DO function very well, and are in the spirit of the originals they draw their inspiration from. Patina or surface rust doesn't define a hot-rod OR a rat-rod, and one car can be both. But a poorly-constructed, ill-functioning conglomeration of old parts is just junk. I think that a lot of rat rods are built more as a vehicle (no pun intended... ) for artistic expression than as functional transportation–the same way those outrageous show cars of the '60s, like many of Roth's creations, were built to look at and visually dazzle you, not necessarily as sane, practical transportation. So I can't say a rat rod that's maybe poorly engineered, or impractical (or dangerous) to drive is "junk," because in many cases, to create a safe, practical, drivable car was never the builder's intent or end goal.
Tom Geiger Posted November 11, 2013 Posted November 11, 2013 (edited) Okay Blair's in so here I go... I GET rat rods and yes they were the reaction to the over monied end of the hobby. Hot rodding got to the point of checkbook building. I was the guy with the primered '56 Chevy that I never did afford to get painted the way I saw it in my head. and in the same way that cruise nights developed as a reaction to those same high end cars at car shows, cruise nights became the 'bring what you have' and have a good time. Nobody said I had to keep my primered car in the garage until it was done. Bring it out, enjoy it and share it with other like minded folks, it was welcomed at the cruise night. Which led us to NNLs. Again the contests got to be high end shoot outs, so a group countered against it with a non competitive model car event. And what has become our most popular venue in this hobby? NNL style shows! People feel comfortable bringing out models they enjoy but might not be up to cutting edge competition. And it's all good. There are things in the automotive field that I do get, those that don't trip my trigger but I understand it and then there are those things I just don't understand. I think Harry summed it up pretty well. What don't I get?? People who are into exotic cars like Ferraris and Lamborghinis. You never had one, you'll never drive or have one, and the kind of people who can afford them and drive them wouldn't give us the time of day. So why?? Edited November 11, 2013 by Tom Geiger
Ace-Garageguy Posted November 11, 2013 Posted November 11, 2013 I think that a lot of rat rods are built more as a vehicle (no pun intended... ) for artistic expression than as functional transportation–the same way those outrageous show cars of the '60s, like many of Roth's creations, were built to look at and visually dazzle you, not necessarily as sane, practical transportation. So I can't say a rat rod that's maybe poorly engineered, or impractical (or dangerous) to drive is "junk," because in many cases, to create a safe, practical, drivable car was never the builder's intent or end goal. I agree entirely with your perspective Harry...in principle...but I guess I just tend to hold my 'artists' to a higher standard. Ed Roth, whose sculptural and styling ability I greatly admired, also drove me crazy because some of his creations functioned very poorly (the Mysterion is reputed to have broken its frame once while being unloaded from a trailer). There wasn't anything so radical about his cars that prevented them from running as good as they looked...and the rats don't HAVE to be unsafe doorstops either. A car is a machine, involving an element of kinetics by definition. To me, a car-based artwork needs to respect the fact that it's "kinetic sculpture", to be entirely valid. But that's just my own perspective...other opinions are equally valid, if they can be defended.
Harry P. Posted November 11, 2013 Posted November 11, 2013 I can understand the concept that a car, no matter what genre it is, is first and foremost a car, and as such should function as a car, at least to some extent. That's one way of applying a baseline to what one finds "acceptable" in the world of custom cars. But to me, when the functionality of the car is the least of the builder's concerns (if it is a concern at all), I can't take points away for "impractability." I can't criticize a car for being unsafe or impractical if it was never intended to be either. I like rat rods as sculpture. I like the textures, the mix of parts, the unexpected use of objects as things they were not meant to be used as, etc. Whether or not any given rat is actually drivable doesn't matter to me, They're not "hot rods" in the way most of us define the term, and to me, at least, they shouldn't be judged by that standard.
Rob Hall Posted November 11, 2013 Posted November 11, 2013 (edited) What don't I get?? People who are into exotic cars like Ferraris and Lamborghinis. You never had one, you'll never drive or have one, and the kind of people who can afford them and drive them wouldn't give us the time of day. So why?? I can understand the appeal of Ferraris and Lamborghinis far more than I can understand Rat Rods... such performance cars are very advanced, represent the pinnacle of performance and technical development, have fascinating, exotic designs..sort of the 'supermodels' of the automotive world. And some vintage Ferraris have a racing heritage that I can appreciate as a racing fan. You don't to own or drive one to appreciate one. Exotics are way more appealing to me than grubby low-tech rust rods.. Edited November 11, 2013 by Rob Hall
Harry P. Posted November 11, 2013 Posted November 11, 2013 I can understand the appeal of Ferraris and Lamborghinis far more than Rat Rods... such performance cars are very advanced, represent the pinnacle of performance and technical development, have fascinating, exotic designs..sort of the 'supermodels' of the automotive world. Way more appealing than grubby low-tech rust rods, IMO. And yet we consider both Norman Rockwell and Jackson Pollock to be artists. Interesting...
Skip Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 I for one am hoping the "True Rat Rod" craze, fad or whatever you want to call it is over soon. I am talking the "cars" that look like they were built out of a dumpster using stuff no early Hot Rodder would have looked at. Seriously, tractor seats, toilet seats, buckets and milk crates (plastic) made to resemble seats, oil cans riveted together to make a floorboard... When I think of Rat Rod the first thing that comes to mind is unsafe, everything from tires with rotten sidewalls, no floorboards to absolutely rotten welds and just plain old poorly engineered stuff. Sure it might be a form of creativity, but at sixty or seventy miles an hour it fails to be creative in my book. Truthfully it concerns me to see some of these things driven. Sure there are some that might be safe, it's just the whole bunch that aren't that have created a bad name for the rest as well as some traditional and safe Hot Rods.
Dr. Cranky Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 This has turned out to be a very interesting (and mature) discussion. Thank you.
FASTBACK340 Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 (edited) When I was younger and couldn't afford a "finished" car it had primer. And the car, in general.... was "ratty". As in rusty spots, dents, and mis-matched painted panels. I had no money. I made it functional and safe. Today to deliberately build an un-safe, rat-trap collection of hacked together junk is questionable. Finding an old car with a nice vintage patina is one thing, but to re-produce patina is odd. Let alone build them like a cross between a Weird-o model and a Leggo contraption. Granted, to each their own, but it is an unusual fade. The last thing I want to own is a car in primer these days. I worked hard to evolve in the hobby. *************** Sorry, just my unsolicited observation on the subject of "Rat Rods", a term real enthusiasts of survivor Rods hate. Don't like `em or hate `em. Just don't understand the attraction. Edited November 12, 2013 by FASTBACK340
Ridgeback Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 I'm a member of a couple of car forums here in the UK and there is a big following for 'Rat Look'. This is generally low end cars, that have bad paint,rust and can be picked up for a couple of hundred quid. lower it and spray or hand paint matt Black and it will generally be included in the Rat look scene. the whole point over here is to do it on the cheap.It would be pointless spending 4 Grand on a paintjob for a £300 car. Like everything though, you get certain people that want to be too 'Scene' and go to the other end of the scale. Not too far from me is a 2003 Audi RS6, with matt paint and and a fake rust painted bonnet. This I do not get.
johnbuzzed Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 And yet we consider both Norman Rockwell and Jackson Pollock to be artists. Interesting... "Artists" in the fact that art is their occupation, perhaps, but that does not mean that "we" all do enjoy or appreciate their works, nor the works of any other "artists", visual or audio. "One man's ceiling is another man's floor". Miley Cyrus, Beethoven, the Beatles, Lady Gaga, Aerosmith, Glenn Miller, Mozart... Art, like beauty, is in the eye (and heart and mind and soul) of the beholder. To me, Ferraris and other exotic cars- but not all of them- are works of art; I have the same opinion of rat rods and other assorted hot rods, street rods, race cars, model cars, etc.
FASTBACK340 Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 I just find it amusing that "back in the day...." , roughly the 70's, if your car was called a Rat, it was a definite slam against it. Funny how it's morphed.
Ridgeback Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 Agreed. The general perception of a Rat, is a creature that is unattractive, dirty, and something to be avoided at all costs... ( I don't mean to offend anyone with a pet rat)
Jantrix Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 (edited) I don't get it either..they just look crude and amateurish to me. Not a fan of rusty hacked up junk. I'll agree, that the hacked up, rusted on purpose, flywheel for a steering wheel, nasty welds everywhere, mailbox for a scoop, open gratings for floorboards, "rat rods" need to be driven off a cliff, preferably with the builder still inside. But if the car is well built and safe I really enjoy the genre. To me it represents the lo-buck hot rod. I just find it amusing that "back in the day...." , roughly the 70's, if your car was called a Rat, it was a definite slam against it. Funny how it's morphed. Unless you are specifically building a "rat rod", it is still a slam. Big time. I've seen more than one car show patron get an earful from a car owner, for calling his flat black hot rod, a rat rod. It was quite entertaining actually. Edited November 12, 2013 by Jantrix
ScaleDale Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 The trend I've seen in 1:1 is that the build-quality of the rats is improving (fewer bubble-gum welds, for instance), and the cars are becoming more functional and safer...gradually approaching what the original hot-rod concept was all about: building a fast, safe car from scrounged bits. I've never been a fan of cars built for shock value (including some of the sillier Kustoms, sky-high donks, insanely-cambered tuners, etc), but any genre that's well thought-out and constructed, with an emphasis on DRIVING (these things are CARS, remember), gets my vote as worthwhile. I'm not a fan of rat rods or rust (NO;DC). but I keep an open mind and pay attention to the build of these cars. A true rat rod is as well thought out as any street rod or drag car, just a different look. They're not junk yard cars, they're designed and engineered to have that look. EDIT: ND;DC = No Offense, Dr. Cranky Dale
Ace-Garageguy Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 ... the hacked up, rusted on purpose, flywheel for a steering wheel, nasty welds everywhere, mailbox for a scoop, open gratings for floorboards, "rat rods" need to be driven off a cliff. But if the car is well built and safe I enjoy the genre. To me it represents the lo-buck hot rod... Yup. ... A true rat rod is as well thought out as any street rod or drag car, just a different look. They're not junk yard cars... I suppose it really gets back to each individual's definition of "rat rod", and we've been down that long and winding (and long winded) road many times before. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The thing is, what would REALLY represent the SPIRIT of the original hot-rods would be something like...say an early MR2 with a Taurus SHO engine and driveline swapped in; a collection of fairly recently-manufactured but thrown-away bits, intelligently combined into a fast, reliable car that would rival the performance of new vehicles costing many many times more to own. The engineering and skills required to build something like that are EASILY within range of anyone with mechanical aptitude who's willing to make the EFFORT to learn.
Dr. Cranky Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 No offense taken, I think my point has always been to encourage all the builders out there to try new things, new styles, new builds to broaden their horizons. It seems to me building the same style of vehicle gets repetitive and boring. Mind you, THIS IS MY PERSONAL OPINION, not a criticism of anyone's favorite style or subject matter. Variety of style and subject matter is good for young builders. It also has a lot to do with personal taste. I don't particularly care for dragsters or Nascar vehicles, but I built a few early on just to try and see what they offered me as a builder starting out. Remember that what you build doesn't necessarily mean you are married to it.
Jantrix Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 it doesn't matter what year the car is or it's condition, it's a "rat rod" project. I've seen that too. Check Craig's List for rat rods. Some weird stuff pops up.
Daddyfink Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 This is what Gray Baskerville called "Rats" Not this
bpletcher55 Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 THAT LAST CAR IS ABOUT THE DUMB,EST THING I,V SEEN ,THE CARS IN THE TOP PICTURE ARE SWEET AND COOL, THAT THING SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN BUILT ,
Harry P. Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 THAT LAST CAR IS ABOUT THE DUMB,EST THING I,V SEEN Have you ever seen a donk?
Rob Hall Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 Would this mess count as a 'rat rod'? Have you ever seen a donk? It's sort of a rat donk...needs higher ride height to be a true donk, though...
bpletcher55 Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 YES I,V SEEN THEM ,DONK IS SHORT FOR DONKY A.K,A, [ A$$] AND THAT IS WHAT THOSE CARS LOOK LIKE ,
Scott Colmer Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 (edited) "It's sort of a rat donk...needs higher ride height to be a true donk, though.." a wRONK? Edited November 12, 2013 by Scott Colmer
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