Can The Lincoln MKC Revive A Once-Proud Luxury Brand?

[Peter Lombardo]

Well, I read through the comments and the sad truth is it can be answered in a single word..................Will Lincoln servive?.....no. The can't and the will not. With 30 years running car dealerships and 12 advertising mainly cars and car dealerships, I have been in and around them all.....Lincoln is in a death sprial right now. They have almost no unique product and they are up against their big brother in FORD product and all of the luxury import brands. As was said before, Lincoln can't get by selling tarted up Fords and it is only a matter of time before Ford throws in the towel all together with the brand.

And remember this........because I hear this from car dealers almost every day.....because they are hearing it from their customers every day.......as the new "Affordable Care Act" (that name is such a joke)...as it rolls out people are realizing that they will have to allocate $200 to $300 more each month for healthcare cost.......that money can't come from the rent, or mortgage payment, can't come from the family food budget, can't come from the gasoline budget, statistics show that it can't com from the money being set aside for savings since most Americans can't save much at all and live "hand to mouth" so where will the extra money come from? It can and most likely will come from the monthly car payment....customers are telling dealers, everyday that they need to find a car for a lower payment, not higher.....so who will get hurt in that case, Ford or Lincoln?

The world is changing, our country has and still is being changed, and the pseudo-luxury car and buyer (not the Mercedes, BMW Audi buyer), but the want-to-be luxury buyer who is the prime target of the Cadillac and Lincoln brands is the guy getting killed right now........so, no, Lincoln is in deep do do.

But I could be all wet, too.

[lordairgtar]

I agree with you Mr Lombardo. The money for ACA has got to come from somewhere, so discretionary spending suffers and luxury purchases will suffer. I pay about $500 per month for my healthcare. I would certainly look into ACA if I didn't fear it getting scrapped. Then where would I be? $200 a month sounds pretty good right now, but with a pre existing condition, I have to be wary. Lincoln could turn itself around if they got away from the dull styling the possess now. They all look like SUVs, or CUVs at the very least. Like I said in my previous post, a hot coupe as the Continental, and a hot sedan as the Town Car. People know and understand those names. Maybe keep an SUV and call it a Premier...another old Lincoln name plate.

[bbowser]

Peter, what a gloomy outlook. Unfortunately I think you're correct. As corporate America figures out that it's cheaper not to provide health insurance (just as they no longer provide retirement benefits) the middle class gets squeezed some more. The day is coming where if you need a "car" your only choice will be an electric econo-box that guides itself via GPS so you can play with your I-pad during the commute.

Charlie, you've got my vote for tenure right now! Good luck, you'll need it.

[Speedfreak]

I agree with you Mr Lombardo. The money for ACA has got to come from somewhere, so discretionary spending suffers and luxury purchases will suffer. I pay about $500 per month for my healthcare. I would certainly look into ACA if I didn't fear it getting scrapped. Then where would I be? $200 a month sounds pretty good right now, but with a pre existing condition, I have to be wary. Lincoln could turn itself around if they got away from the dull styling the possess now. They all look like SUVs, or CUVs at the very least. Like I said in my previous post, a hot coupe as the Continental, and a hot sedan as the Town Car. People know and understand those names. Maybe keep an SUV and call it a Premier...another old Lincoln name plate.

I think this pretty much nails it. And great ideas for models they should be producing if they want to survive. A killer Continental coupe, killer Town Car, and ok, if you insist, a Premier (great name) CSUV. But, those ideas should have been put into place several years ago for it to pay off now. Doesn't really look good for Lincoln.

Edited November 20, 2013 by Speedfreak

[sjordan2]

Wow. This thread has really swerved around from the original subject to very questionable politics and has become very loopy. To even bring up ACA here is totally dumbass and has zero to do with the subject..

[Skydime]

Just looks like a glorified, overpriced Escape with Terrain-like center dash nav/hvac setup to me. Good fodder for discussion though, Carl!

Edited November 20, 2013 by Skydime

[Peter Lombardo]

Wow. This thread has really swerved around from the original subject to very questionable politics and has become very loopy. To even bring up ACA here is totally dumbass and has zero to do with the subject..

Skip, I did not bring up the ACA for political reasons........I made no mention of any politician or political bend, I only made mention of it because it partains to the subject of luxury cars and people having enough disposible income to afford one. Gentleman, if you pay attention to the reports, the average income American is going to be in the bullseye of the source of funding for the law. This is the person who is considered the prime target of the Lincoln Motor Company.....you see the factory looks at it like this..... (you can trust me on this, I was there and I heard it with my own ears, time and time again, from many factory guys).......as the young buyer enters into the market he is targeted to purchase a low end Ford product, as his income amd prestige grows, he is expected to move up to a more expensive vehicle, that is why the companies all work from the bottom up....GM always had the lower end covered with Chevy and Pontiac...as the buyer moved up he looked at Oldsmolibe and Buick, and as the kids moved out, college and weddings were paid for, he moved up to the Caddy. Ford had the same plans, Ford, up to Mercury and then on to Lincoln.......even the Imports plan that way....Infiniti used to tell us all thetime how they would own the customer (in the beginning it was the entry level G20, then on to the M30, later the J30 and I35, then on to the Q45). They planned it this way, it was what all manufacturers did...........so my point is.......with less disposible income in the near future because of the ACA, that train is broken and the once upwardly mobile buyer is not so upwardly mobile now.......that is bad for the economy (driven by our spending) and bad for Lincoln.

And remember, this is what my dealers are telling me for the last month........they are the ones on the frontlines of the battle to get buyers to part with money.....it is getting increasingly difficult......but then again, we can all keep our heads burried in the sand and maybe the storm will pass right over our heads.

But I doubt it. This hurricane will get us all sooner or later.

Of course, if you are the insurance companies, you have nothing to worry about, they were given a 3 year deal by ACA law where our tax dollars will subsidize any loses they incur. Sure warms my heart to know I am helping highly compansated insurance executives maintain their lifestyle.

again, this is not a political rant.....it is just the sad reality of life today.

[Skydime]

Please delete this reply...half asleep rambling reply here

Edited November 21, 2013 by Skydime

[charlie8575]

Charlie, you've got my vote for tenure right now! Good luck, you'll need it.

Thank you, Bruce. Now if I can only convince the business schools that the old-fashioned way is the right way.

Charlie Larkin

[Danno]

It does rather prove my point, doesn't it?

Charlie Larkin

Yes, it does.

And, Charlie, I must say, your analysis (in Post# 44) is dead-nuts dead-on! You've really nailed it in a very thoughtful and thorough manner and you've articulated a complicated concept in a very comprehensible way. Kudos! And, good luck to you. We need more of the type of insight you've exhibited in our universities and colleges! Rather than the psycho-babble drivel that's there now.

[Ron Hamilton]

That car looked dated the minute it hit dealer lots. Very conservative styling:

Lexus has created an entire division company based on Toyota underpinnings, so the formula can work, but it's not as easy as it looks. The Lincoln Blackwood and Navigator didn't seem to help Lincoln's image much, either, though I can understand why Ford chased SUVs sales when that market segment was hot (and supposedly growing again...ugh.).

It's kind of funny, When I was selling Lincolns (2004-5), we sold every LS and Town Car we could get, and the used ones sold really well. As a matter of fact, our dealership sold more Lincolns than Mercurys. In my opinion, Lincoln would be better served if they had a car that was perceived to be more than a Ford. A new, rear drive, large V8 engined Town Car would be the ticket. Not an S-Class Mercedes, nor a Lexus LS, nor a Cadillac XTS sized car, but a big, long roomy luxurious car, in a 3-box style. No short-decked fastbacks. Full framed. The livery business would love it too.

I know that economics will make certain that such a car would have to be shared with the Ford Division. The answer I have to that is a purpose built car for Police and Taxi use, with a shorter wheelbase, and stout components. Call it Galaxie.

[charlie8575]

Yes, it does.

And, Charlie, I must say, your analysis (in Post# 44) is dead-nuts dead-on! You've really nailed it in a very thoughtful and thorough manner and you've articulated a complicated concept in a very comprehensible way. Kudos! And, good luck to you. We need more of the type of insight you've exhibited in our universities and colleges! Rather than the psycho-babble drivel that's there now.

Thanks, Dan. You're not the first one to have said something along those lines to me. I appreciate the kind words and support.

It's kind of funny, When I was selling Lincolns (2004-5), we sold every LS and Town Car we could get, and the used ones sold really well. As a matter of fact, our dealership sold more Lincolns than Mercurys. In my opinion, Lincoln would be better served if they had a car that was perceived to be more than a Ford. A new, rear drive, large V8 engined Town Car would be the ticket. Not an S-Class Mercedes, nor a Lexus LS, nor a Cadillac XTS sized car, but a big, long roomy luxurious car, in a 3-box style. No short-decked fastbacks. Full framed. The livery business would love it too.

I know that economics will make certain that such a car would have to be shared with the Ford Division. The answer I have to that is a purpose built car for Police and Taxi use, with a shorter wheelbase, and stout components. Call it Galaxie.

I think if a new Panther-esque car were to be introduced, I'd want it available for consumer purchase as well in Ford guise; there are some people (like me) that like all that stuff but don't have the money to blow on a Lincoln. Personally, I'd like to see that line include a new Country Sedan/Squire, as well. Roadmasters and Caprices, and the ever-so-seldom-seen Custom Cruiser (at least around here) are getting a little scarce- and VERY expensive for decent ones.

That aside, Ron, I like this idea, and I think it fits well with the concept I assembled on P. 2.

Charlie Larkin

[Ju Ju]

Thank you, Bruce. Now if I can only convince the business schools that the old-fashioned way is the right way.

Charlie Larkin

Maybe once they see how successful you are in real life they might change their way of thinking ?

[howsthat1959]

Why buy this when I can purchase a well equipped Escape for $1000's less? Same same with the MKS (Taurus) and MKZ (Focus).

I lost all hope for Lincoln when the Town Car went away.

G

True...but remember, the Town Car was a gussied up Crown Vic, as was the Merc version (the "L" model did have a longer wheel base which made it unique.)

Don't get me wrong, I loved the Town Car and rented them for years. They did a better job of hiding the roots of the car than they do now.

[Agent G]

John I love my Town Car and realize from whence it came.

Trouble is the new models don't live up to the "luxury car hype" the way a classic design like the Panther platform did.

My 2 cents anyway.

G

[Nxr]

i know this is Lincoln but for full size sedans i absolutely adore the new Chevrolet impala and the upcoming Chevy SS. I think the new impala holds a lot more to its older roots than the new Lincolns, and like i said again useless letter combos are lame. A car should have a name. This does not apply to the SS though because everyone knows Super Sport.

[Agent G]

I am real interested in the new SS. Any car with Holden antecedents is ok by me.

G

[Tom Geiger]

It's kind of funny, When I was selling Lincolns (2004-5), we sold every LS and Town Car we could get, and the used ones sold really well. As a matter of fact, our dealership sold more Lincolns than Mercurys

I love my Brit Lincoln LS!

[Nxr]

The S type is also a beautiful car, it seems like they all of the sudden vanished from the streets, used to see them all the time along the x types back in 06 or so.

[Swifster]

The Town Car is the last thing Lincoln needs to build. The median age of a Town Car buyer was 65-death. No one wants to build cars for dead people.

I liked the Blackwood, but at $55K for a 2WD pick up truck...

The MKZ looks good, but every other car in the class is RWD.

And get rid of the lettering. There are a lot of rich history for Lincolns. MKWhatever means nothing.

Cadillac sells nothing but RWD. Most cars the Lincoln wants to aim for are RWD. Lincoln selling FWD cars is a fail.

[Joe Handley]

I am real interested in the new SS. Any car with Holden antecedents is ok by me.

G

We've got one or two of their Caprices at the local PD, nearly as intimidating as the Chargers once you realize what they are and that they pack Vette engines. Couldn't figure out why they bought those instead of the Taurus since we don't have a GM or Chrysler, only a Ford dealer in town until I saw the completed Rt. 64 by the county airport.........3 wide lanes in each direction with 1 curve, 1 overpass, minimal signals, businesses, and all but no housing..........it would be a great stretch of road to drive way tooooo fast, pretty sure my 200 sould easily his it's 118 mph limiter long before running out of road.

[oldcarfan]

Remember Cadillac was all but dead 15-20 years ago, making crappy front-wheel drive cars that were bought by retirees. Lincoln can survive, but Ford will have to make a commitment the way GM did with Cadillac. Now Cadillac is starting to be seen as a possible alternate to Mercedes or BMW.

No more warmed over Fords, they have to be willing to invest in RWD platforms and make them stand out. Also as has been already mentioned, the letter names were an idea that didn't work. They need to give them real names again.

Edited November 23, 2013 by oldcarfan

[Nxr]

You do not want to mess with a CTS-V wagon, seriously the fastest and meanest wagon i ever got to test drive.

[charlie8575]

You do not want to mess with a CTS-V wagon, seriously the fastest and meanest wagon i ever got to test drive.

Too bad it can't tow like my Roadmaster, or hold eight people.

Oh hell, I might buy one someday simply for the entertainment factor!

Charlie Larkin

[Agent G]

Too bad it can't tow like my Roadmaster, or hold eight people.

Oh hell, I might buy one someday simply for the entertainment factor!

Charlie Larkin

If I had the money, I'd do just that.

G