Can The Lincoln MKC Revive A Once-Proud Luxury Brand?

[kruleworld]

We don't have Lincoln here, but i wouldn't want to pay mercedes prices for something that looked like the explorer parked next to it. You'd think they'd be following Cadillac's lead.

Gotta agree - it's a big no. It's just more of the same FWD econobox SUV junk that Lincoln has been pushing for years. That stuff may work for Ford, but not for a luxury car maker.

So would a RWD v8 sedan take your fancy? Ford is cancelling the falcon because of lack of sales, because even 'car guys' are buying fwd econoboxes (listen to their wives?). They could have taken this platform, upped the spec and replaced the engine with something available in the usa and it wouldn't have shared a panel with any of Ford's other products.

Ford Falcon XR6

[martinfan5]

We don't have Lincoln here, but i wouldn't want to pay mercedes prices for something that looked like the explorer parked next to it. You'd think they'd be following Cadillac's lead.

So would a RWD v8 sedan take your fancy? Ford is cancelling the falcon because of lack of sales, because even 'car guys' are buying fwd econoboxes (listen to their wives?). They could have taken this platform, upped the spec and replaced the engine with something available in the usa and it wouldn't have shared a panel with any of Ford's other products.

Ford Falcon XR6

Would love to see the Falcon on the streets here in the USA, to bad FordMoCo wont follow suite and do what GM is doing with the Chevy SS

[Agent G]

Would love to see the Falcon on the streets here in the USA, to bad FordMoCo wont follow suite and do what GM is doing with the Chevy SS

X2

Love the new SS, especially where it came from...................

G

[martinfan5]

X2

Love the new SS, especially where it came from...................

G

You got that right

[charlie8575]

Would love to see the Falcon on the streets here in the USA, to bad FordMoCo wont follow suite and do what GM is doing with the Chevy SS

I agree completely.

Charlie Larkin

[Zarana-X]

All the new Lincolns look like ugly electric razors with those grille designs.

[Tom Geiger]

I once read that luxury automakers prefer using seemingly random alphanumeric names for their vehicles so that people will remember the brand more than the car. Which, you have to admit, works pretty good. Too many acronyms and numbers to remember and you just start calling all them by the brand.

I think the fact that nearly every recognizable word is already copyrighted has something to do with it. For a while the Japanese were making up pleasing sounding names (at least to their ear) phonetically that gave us Camry - Stanza - Sentra. And I'll bet they even ran out of those syllable jumbles by now!

Does anyone remember the Utopian Turtletop?

[charlie8575]

Does anyone remember the Utopian Turtletop?

So, Ford's gonna try the Edsel again?

Charlie Larkin

[charlie8575]

Well....it took a few months, but the reviews are starting to come in.

Looks like FoMoCo buggered this one, too, and just as badly as we feared, perhaps worse.

https://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoramic/driving-the-2015-lincoln-mkc--the-fashionably-late-small-suv-141033008.html

Charlie Larkin

[Joe Handley]

Uhg, that's just what we need, another freakin' cross over, maybe they should focus on another big sedan to compete with the 300 and the new Caddy that was mentioned in the comments.

[charlie8575]

That was me that mentioned the Caddy.

You might have also noticed I cut-and-pasted my recommendations on P. 2 or 3 into my own comments. The more I see, the more I'm convinced I'm at least on the right track, if not completely correct.

Charlie Larkin

Edited June 17, 2014 by charlie8575

[Joe Handley]

I thought a couple of those comments looked kinda familiar!

[Joe Handley]

I wonder if there is a market for a personal luxury coupe too, even if it was mid sized, I think a 2015 200 or what ever the Fusion based Lincoln is would make decent looking coupes and maybe even convertables as would the Caddy ATS.

Edited June 17, 2014 by Joe Handley

[tim boyd]

Well....it took a few months, but the reviews are starting to come in.

Looks like FoMoCo buggered this one, too, and just as badly as we feared, perhaps worse.

https://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoramic/driving-the-2015-lincoln-mkc--the-fashionably-late-small-suv-141033008.html

Charlie Larkin

This is a much more negative article than just about any other MKC review I've read.

You might want to check elsewhere (you could start with autoblog.com) for a more balanced view...most reviews I've read were generally complimentary, and a number of them predict the MKC will be a major success.

The author's assumption that Lincoln is late to the party is completely wrong. The smaller "C" segment CUV market where MKC will compete is just developing here in the States. Most of the current competitors are "CD", "D:, or larger segment entries.

And complaining about the platform strategy is a bit disingenuous when Audi uses the exact same approach on just about every product they sell. TB

Edited June 17, 2014 by tim boyd

[charlie8575]

Not necessarily, Tim.

What I think a lot of us here aren't happy about is this scenario coming soon to a Lincoln dealer near you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaZqQLpbjFU

Every one of those cars in that ad- the GM cars and the Lincolns, all shared chassis and a lot of the greasy bits. The difference is that Lincoln in the 1980s made an honest effort to fully, completely distinguish itself from less-expensive cars in Ford's stable.

I don't know if you saw my proposed ideas or not a few pages back, but you'll notice that everything I suggested says "use what's in the parts bin." Every multi-division automobile company has done this since the dawn of the industry. Ford and Chrysler shared basic engine designs (sometimes with different displacement,) and suspension parts. GM shared a lot of cowl and roof structures, as well as more than a few chassis components, but had unique sheetmetal and interiors that allowed each car to have its own personality.

Lincoln has largely, sadly, reduced itself to Ford in a tuxedo, much like Mercury become a Ford in a suit. If Lincoln is to have continued viability, they really need to look at Cadillac, where GM finally realized "hey, if we want to be #1 again, we really need to start making some unique products."

Personally, I'm not a big fan of the current Cadillacs- I think most of them are downright ugly. I'd much rather have the '62 Sedan deVille for sale next town over from me than anything they're making now, with the exception of a CTS wagon.

I really want to see Lincoln come back with full force, but that won't happen until Ford becomes fully committed to making Lincoln a fully distinctive range again.

And right now, I'm not seeing it, with a few exceptions and those exceptions, at least stylistically, aren't quite what they should be.

The MKC could've been better- to justify the extra cost, the turbo V-6 standard and perhaps a 3-5 inch stretch in the wheelbase for more rear seat room would've done it with little added cost (relative to the rest of the project.) That would be a luxury cute-ute that could fully justify the extra price tag. As it is now....I don't think it does.

Charlie Larkin

[Harry P.]

I think the world already has way too many "crossovers," etc.

[Rob Hall]

I think the world already has way too many "crossovers," etc.

Yeah, but that seems to be a class of appliance the public loves...supposedly Cadillac will be getting a compact or subcompact CUV soon also.

Edited June 17, 2014 by Rob Hall

[Joe Handley]

I swear the "driving" public is stupid sometimes. They don't want a useful and efficent station wagon or minivan because it is what their parents had, yet they complained about the truck like behavior and mileage of SUV's like my XJ, so what do they do............they go out and buy chubby station wagons with AWD built on car or minivan platforms that have a sort of SUV like profile and only have that AWD system going for it.

[Joe Handley]

This was an interesting read.........

http://editorial.autos.msn.com/blogs/post--lincoln-tops-satisfaction-awards-plans-revival-with-more-models

[unclescott58]

OK, time for my useless opinion on this one. My feeling is Ford killed it's Mercury division by moving Lincoln down into that market, and several Ford products up. Wiping out the need for Mercury. Not a bad thing for the Ford division. But, a terrible idea for Lincoln. So many of Lincoln's model lineup should have been branded as Mercurys rather than Lincolns. Lincoln needs to move up. "Basic cars" like Fords, Chevrolets, Toyotas, and even Hyundais are pretty fancy now days. One needs to make Lincoln, Cadillac, and others something special now days to compete with the luxury features offered in the lower makes. The present Lincoln lineup has nothing that grabs my attentions and says luxury the way certain Cadillacs, Mercedes, or BMWs do. It looks like it would make a great lineup of Mercurys. Other than too high of a price for Mercury's price bracket.

That's my two cents worth.

Scott

[tim boyd]

Not necessarily, Tim.

What I think a lot of us here aren't happy about is this scenario coming soon to a Lincoln dealer near you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaZqQLpbjFU

Every one of those cars in that ad- the GM cars and the Lincolns, all shared chassis and a lot of the greasy bits. The difference is that Lincoln in the 1980s made an honest effort to fully, completely distinguish itself from less-expensive cars in Ford's stable.

I don't know if you saw my proposed ideas or not a few pages back, but you'll notice that everything I suggested says "use what's in the parts bin." Every multi-division automobile company has done this since the dawn of the industry. Ford and Chrysler shared basic engine designs (sometimes with different displacement,) and suspension parts. GM shared a lot of cowl and roof structures, as well as more than a few chassis components, but had unique sheetmetal and interiors that allowed each car to have its own personality.

Lincoln has largely, sadly, reduced itself to Ford in a tuxedo, much like Mercury become a Ford in a suit. If Lincoln is to have continued viability, they really need to look at Cadillac, where GM finally realized "hey, if we want to be #1 again, we really need to start making some unique products."

Personally, I'm not a big fan of the current Cadillacs- I think most of them are downright ugly. I'd much rather have the '62 Sedan deVille for sale next town over from me than anything they're making now, with the exception of a CTS wagon.

I really want to see Lincoln come back with full force, but that won't happen until Ford becomes fully committed to making Lincoln a fully distinctive range again.

And right now, I'm not seeing it, with a few exceptions and those exceptions, at least stylistically, aren't quite what they should be.

The MKC could've been better- to justify the extra cost, the turbo V-6 standard and perhaps a 3-5 inch stretch in the wheelbase for more rear seat room would've done it with little added cost (relative to the rest of the project.) That would be a luxury cute-ute that could fully justify the extra price tag. As it is now....I don't think it does.

Charlie Larkin

Charlie....I remember that ad very well. I also remember that as recent as 1998, Lincoln was the #1 selling luxury brand in the US.

You've obviously put a lot of thought into this subject and I can tell you care about the brand and its future success.

I have no issue with your post (I don't agree with your comments about Lincoln, but every one has a right to voice their view), instead my point was simply that the review that you linked to was by some measure the most negative of all the MKC reviews I've read. I just wanted to make sure that those following this thread were aware that most of the other major auto reviews were more favorable, and in some cases, extremely positive. The author of that article is well respected, but I was surprised at some of his statements in the article that, in my judgment, do not align with the actual facts. (You may not be aware that I spent 35 1/2 years in the auto industry in marketing, product strategy, and design roles).

I'm retired now from Ford but I can tell you that as of the day of my retirement, everything you read about Ford being serious about Lincoln as a luxury brand is very real. Obviously, I can't speak about it in detail, but the path that they are following has been very deeply thought out and ultimately the market will decide the success of that strategy. My own personal judgment is that the MKC will be a substantial hit. Time will tell all....

BTW, the next Lincoln product (after the MKC) according to press coverage, will be a production version of the Lincoln MKX Concept shown at the 2014 Beijing Motor Show. http://www.lincoln.com/2016-mkx-concept/ It sounds more like the car you were expecting per the last sentence of your reply. The MKC is a smaller product than that, and right now, unless I am missing something, only BMW (X1) and Acura (RDX) have something comparable to the MKC on sale at dealerships (the MKC is also at dealerships now). Audi, Mercedes, and Lexus will eventually have competing entries but to the best of my knowledge, they are not on sale at dealerships in the US yet as of this date.

Again, thanks for your comments and thoughts...I don' t expect that I changed your mind, but at least we've had a good dialogue...

TB

PS - I just read on AutoBlog today that Lincoln was just ranked the #1 Luxury brand in customer satisfaction in the AutoPacific 2014 owner surveys.... http://www.autoblog.com/2014/06/17/lincoln-gmc-win-autopacific-vehicle-satisfaction-awards/ ...one more small step in the right direction.

Edited June 17, 2014 by tim boyd

[tim boyd]

I think the world already has way too many "crossovers," etc.

Harry....there are more than a few people out there who would probably agree with you.

But the sales growth of CUV's in the US, and indeed worldwide, suggest that there is considerable additional opportunity for new products of that type.

As long as everyone has the ability to find a product that works for them individually, I'm OK. If it happens to be a CUV, whatever works for them. (I confess that I have a CUV in the driveway right now, and it is a very convenient/useful product. But I am still looking foward to when my '15 GT Convertible replaces it next year!!!) TB

[peter31a]

I have a CUV right now. It's a Honda CRV. Why do I have it? Cuz no one builds wagons anymore! (Caveat: Yes, I know Volkswagen does but that's a very limited choice… I can't afford a Cadillac if they still build theirs.) I drove a Focus wagon for years. Come time to replace it no choice but CUV's. I'm just too accustomed to the advantages of that big back area. I can't even begin to imagine living with the likes of a Mustang on a day to day basis. A two door like that would drive me right round the bend. A nice toy for summer maybe but not day to day transport….. But I'm weird that way…..

[Joe Handley]

I have a CUV right now. It's a Honda CRV. Why do I have it? Cuz no one builds wagons anymore! (Caveat: Yes, I know Volkswagen does but that's a very limited choice I can't afford a Cadillac if they still build theirs.) I drove a Focus wagon for years. Come time to replace it no choice but CUV's. I'm just too accustomed to the advantages of that big back area. I can't even begin to imagine living with the likes of a Mustang on a day to day basis. A two door like that would drive me right round the bend. A nice toy for summer maybe but not day to day transport.. But I'm weird that way..

In some ways, I prefer my FWD/V-6 Chrysler 200 sedan over a V-6 or V-8/RWD "muscle" car like the Challenger R/T and Charger SE my Sister has purchased. just from the Daily Driver point of view. Enough power to walk all over the V-6 Charger and shouldn't be too much slower than the Challenger, yet is nice and comfortable to drive home after a long, busy day.......and since it doesn't look like much more than something I rented from the Enterprise that keeps blocking my store with it's vans, I don't get a second look from anybody who might care what I'm up too.

[Harry P.]

What Lincoln needs to do is drop the alphabet soup names. I know they're "trendy" and very "European," but heck, this is the good old US of A, fer pete's sake!

Come out with a flagship car (maybe using the current Taurus platform to keep costs down, maybe go crazy and go all new). Give it unique, even striking styling that stands out from the crowd (like Lincolns used to do). Call it a "Continental," price it realistically, and sit back and count the money.