Chrysler isn't Chrysler anymore

[Rob Hall]

Then what is it associated with? Chrysler cheese? Chrysler shoes? Chrysler mascara?

you are being too literal. Chrysler had offices there a long time ago, some official connection?

Edit: the company never had a connection to it, it was WPC himself..family sold it over 60 years ago...

Edited January 2, 2015 by Rob Hall

[Ace-Garageguy]

Then what is it associated with? Chrysler cheese? Chrysler shoes? Chrysler mascara?

Ah yes, the world-famous Chrysler cheese...

or perhaps Chrysler Pasta...

Edited January 2, 2015 by Ace-Garageguy

[Harry P.]

Chrysler Building hasn't been associated with the car brand for decades,I think...

Here in Chicago we have a building called the Sears Tower. Sort of a landmark... used to be the tallest building in the world at one point. Then Sears moved corporate to Hoffman Estates (a Chicago suburb right next to me)... and the building was officially renamed the "Willis Tower" for the new owner.

But nobody in the Chicago area calls it that. It will always be the "Sears Tower" to us locals.

[martinfan5]

Without Fiat, there could of come a time in the future when there could of been no Chrysler(now in brand only), so I see Fiat taking over as good thing, its keeps Chrysler products around, and keeps putting food on many American workers tables, sometimes in life, you have to take the good with the bad, and I know for many, Fiat being an eveil furrin car company owning Chrysler is bad, but wouldnt the complete loss of all Chrysler products be worse?

Edited January 2, 2015 by martinfan5

[Ace-Garageguy]

Without Fiat, there could of come a time in the future when there could of been no Chrysler(now in brand only), so I see Fiat taking over as good thing, its keeps Chrysler products around, and keeps putting food on many American workers tables, sometimes in life, you have to take the good with the bad, and I know for many, Fiat being an eveil furrin car company owning Chrysler is bad, but wouldnt the complete loss of all Chrysler products be worse?

Agreed 100%...and I happen to like Fiat anyway

What is tragic is that no American capitalization stepped up to keep the US identity, return US ownership, and retain the profits in the US.

[martinfan5]

I like modern Chrysler products. Thinking of getting a new Grand Cherokee to replace my old one...like the 300, Charger and Challenger quite a bit also....

Fun fact, the new Cherokee shares the same platform as the Durango WK2 platform, and is a derivative based on the Mercedes Benz W166 Series and shares body/chassis with the Mercedes M-Class,R-Class,GL-Class, according to the internet.

[Rob Hall]

Fun fact, the new Cherokee shares the same platform as the Durango WK2 platform, and is a derivative based on the Mercedes Benz W166 Series and shares body/chassis with the Mercedes M-Class,R-Class,GL-Class, according to the internet.

Yes, it was developed during the DaimlerChrysler era.

[martinfan5]

What is tragic is that no American capitalization stepped up to keep the US identity, return US ownership, and retain the profits in the US.

I agree 100%, no one thought it was a financially smart idea to invest in the company, I am just guessing as to why.

[Tom Geiger]

Without Fiat, there could of come a time in the future when there could of been no Chrysler(now in brand only), so I see Fiat taking over as good thing, its keeps Chrysler products around, and keeps putting food on many American workers tables, sometimes in life, you have to take the good with the bad, and I know for many, Fiat being an eveil furrin car company owning Chrysler is bad, but wouldnt the complete loss of all Chrysler products be worse?

Wow! We're all in agreement. Gotta mark this event! Fiat has had the wisdom to invest money and move the product forward. Daimler Benz just bought Chrysler to steal their huge cash reserves, and Jeep technology. Under Cerberus there was no R&D, just rowing the boat hoping to find a buyer. Fiat is the first owner who wants to be in the US car business and is making big investment. The part you don't see is that Fiat was exporting US cars to Europe under their own brands. The Chrysler 300 was sold there as the Lancia Thema and they sold Chrysler convertibles as Lancias as well. Fiat would like nothing more than to sell all their brands everywhere. When I was in England, the only American cars I saw were Chryslers and Jeeps.

We have a Fiat 500 convertible in our family. My daughter bought hers new and 2.5 years and about 35,000 miles later, it's never been back to the dealer. It's a great little car with personality! I'm waiting to see the new Fiat designed mini Jeep. That should be interesting.

Edited January 2, 2015 by Tom Geiger

[martinfan5]

Wow! We're all in agreement. Gotta mark this event!

I am so going to mark it down on the calender :lol:

[unclescott58]

Everybody's taking this literally-which is technically true. But my earlier post means the corporate excellence in engineering died in '69 - not whose name went on the door.

Nothing but pure junk and relentless pick up trucks since the Hemi years up to '69.

And yes there's a 'new' Hemi now which only an Eaton blower made serious. But it goes into overweight blobs, sedans and P / U's.

Why 1969? With your thinking, why not '71? The last year for the second generation Hemi. And last year before the new line of Dodge pickup trucks. I'm not getting why you picked 1969. I see no big changes in product or management at Chrysler that year.

To the rest of us, welcome to the new world. I don't like it. But, there is absolutely nothing I can do about it.

Scott

[martinfan5]

Yes, it was developed during the DaimlerChrysler era.

I actually did not know tell I looked it up , I was curious as to what platform the current models where being built on

[Rob Hall]

I actually did not know tell I looked it up , I was curious as to what platform the current models where being built on

I remember reading the development was pretty far along when the split happened and Cerebus cAme in. I didn't care for the WK that came after my WJ, but the WK2 seems very nice....

[martinfan5]

I remember reading the development was pretty far along when the split happened and Cerebus cAme in. I didn't care for the WK that came after my WJ, but the WK2 seems very nice....

That makes sense to just keep moving forward than starting over.

[Ace-Garageguy]

I remember reading the development was pretty far along when the split happened and Cerebus came in...

Too bad it wasn't Cerberus instead of Cerebus. Coulda made a cooler logo than the ol' goat...

Edited January 2, 2015 by Ace-Garageguy

[keyser]

It was Cerberus http://www.cerberuscapital.com/investment_strategies/control_and_non-control_private_equity_investments/companies

Daimler Benz gave Chrysler the E platform, which the 300/Challenger/Charger series was originally based on. Saved the lousy products they had flailed along with.

Daimler Benz built better Jeeps than Jeep did. G-wagen is from '84, and is still an amazing vehicle, as are Unimogs.

Fiat using Alfa and Lancia chassis under new Dart and 200. The old 200 and the convertibles had chassis flex so badly they were nearly impossible to fix on a frame machine. Absolute messes.

The largest capitalized US companies are energy, and tech. Apple is #1 most valuable company in the world. Ideas. Not manufacturing. They make their stuff all over the globe, much in China.

Hard line phones are dead. Typewriters dead. Mail dying. CD's dead. DVD's sliding. Film? What's that? Cameras? tiny market share.

Sorry Toto, it ain't Kansas anymore. Evolve or perish. Unions, insurance costs, and liability issues (what killed general aviation, or at least close).

GM, Chrysler poorly managed for years, accountants shaved pennies and caused garbage to be built. Ford has done well, still a basically US company, with huge international basis. GM sells Volt for 40k, they don't sell. Hey, lets sell same car rebadged as Cadillac for $75k!!!. Cannot. Give. Away. Who are these people making decisions like that?

I agree about jobs issue with Americans. But there's no correlation with education, school debt, and earning power. Entitlement, 50% college grads moving in with parents, PACS, and legislative branch that doesn't understand government is based on compromise, not petulant bickering.

[The Creative Explorer]

Who would've thought that Chrysler would be Dutch Too bad they only hire a PO adress and put the HQ in the UK,

[slusher]

From Fortune magazine:

In giving a title to the newly merged global automaker, the names Fiat and Chrysler were scrapped earlier this year in favor of the alphabetic FCA N.V., incorporated in the Netherlands. And now Chrysler is being dropped from the title of FCA’s U.S. operations as well, replaced by FCA U.S. LLC. Consistency between corporate parent and subsidiary was the reason given.

So... no more "Chrysler Corporation." Chrysler cars will still be sold as "Chryslers," but the company itself is now just an acronym.

The U.S. did not approve the sale of Chrysler the first time Fiat tried to buy it. When it was approve their reason for the purchase was to get their cars back in the U.S. market tied in with a classic brand. I guess they knew all along what they was going to do...

[Cato]

Why 1969? With your thinking, why not '71? The last year for the second generation Hemi. And last year before the new line of Dodge pickup trucks. I'm not getting why you picked 1969. I see no big changes in product or management at Chrysler that year.

To the rest of us, welcome to the new world. I don't like it. But, there is absolutely nothing I can do about it.

Scott

Because the government was doing the project management. By '71, emissions gave us 9.5:1 compressions, air pumps and serious performance losses. Also, the (comparatively) light chassis (think original 'taxicab' Road Runner) of the '60's were replaced by barges like the Charger as performance leaders.

[Danno]

Fiat saw value in the Chrysler "platform" for a few reasons, Fiat was eyeing the success of Cooper and Scion in America and thinking that the time was right to get back into the US market. It would have been very expensive to come here and develop an infrastructure for parts warehousing and distribution. The take over of Chrysler gave them that for pennies on the dollar, secondly, they saw value in a number of the Chrysler products ( mainly Jeep ) in Europe and South America, so they could establish a "give and take" situation for the product coming and going to and from Europe and America. And lastly, and most importantly, the US government gave Chrysler away at fire sale prices. It was a smart move for all parties as Cerbus had no real interest in running Chrysler as a "for profit" company prior to the bankruptcy.

The US will see more and more of this type of transaction. Our workers have and will continue to price our production out of the reach of any business looking to make a profit. The ideas and technology, for the most part still come from America.......we develop the process and third world countries produce the products for less............take golf clubs.......the name brand designs are created in the US......heads are forged in China, the better shafts, for the most part, are made in Japan, the grips are made in China and the club is usually assembled in Mexico. We get a state of the art product designed in America for hundreds less than if it were completely done in the US.

Textiles are all made in the far east ( okay, almost all ), but designed here. The chips that power our computers are products of US companies, but the rest is not. We have a government in power ( both Democrat and Republican, so I blame them all ) that sells us out for votes. We are reaching a 20 Trillion dollar debt, and still, we send dollars to many countries that hate us, and there is no end for that. Our government would rather pay people to sit around and not work, vote for them, rather than go get a job......a job that is currently beneath what they want, but it is job that is a starting point to where they need to go in the future. I stated working when I was 14 years old in a job that was never going to be my final job, or skill, but it helped me earn money so I could buy my own first car, and I have been providing for myself and family ever since. America was founded as a country where we could achieve greatness if we work hard and make the effort. That self reliance attitude is going away

More and more business has been effected by the internet and jobs are being shed by corporations because computers and robots do the work better for less. Banks are shifting to teller less, storefront less operations. Insurance and finance is shifting to internet based websites rather than agents. Travel agents are rapidly becoming artifacts of the past. Amazon wants to deliver products to us with drones. Google wants to give us driver less autos. The list goes on and on........progress is making the American worker a museum piece.......think about it, before long you will not have to wait for AMT, Tamiya or Revell to make the exact car model you want.......you will find the data base on line, have it rapid printed in 3D on the spot and that is it......how many jobs will be lost to that..............and then we will have nothing to complain about because you will be able to get that model of the stripped down Dodge Aspine 4 dr sedan to model the car your dad drove back in the 70's.

This so-called "progress" is making the American worker - and American work ethic (which is what made America exceptional) extinct.

[charlie8575]

I re-read a few of these posts again.

Yes, like all of us, it does upset me a bit to see Chrysler as a company (or even subsidiary) name go away. I grew up around a lot of MoPar in my family.

But, I think the bigger point Bill was alluding to is important to consider.

For the record, I have no real issue with mergers and acquisitions, as long as they're done fairly and openly- meaning no skull-duggery, open business dealings, and transparency, especially if it's a publicly-traded company.

But Bill's point is a very important one. For all the wonders of global business and free trade, the present tax and other incentive structure of the United States promotes selling off many of our largest, most important companies, and these businesses are important both economically and symbolically, and those incentives to be reckless and sell out large portions of our economic infrastructure and the dissuasion of re-investing in industries that might be sexy or politically correct, and even, to a great extent, those that are, are being hampered, and the new expansion made possible through high-tech, by laws that encourage massive sell-off, and now are discouraging even foreign investment.

I think that in its own way, the merger is emblematic of the failed policies that have created everything we're now seeing in our nation's economic down-spiral.

Charlie Larkin

[Tom Geiger]

To Charlie's point, the closest to home for me is AT&T since my wife and a lot of our friends worked there. AT&Ts research center in Holmdel, NJ employed over 6000 people in technical jobs at one point. My wife and her friends started in the mail room and worked their way up into technical positions that paid well.

Enter the government who decided that AT&T was a monopoly and broke it up into smaller companies. The big research center became Lucent Technologies and it went okay for awhile. Then Lucent got bought by a french company Alcatel, who took all the patents and business, and simply closed the place. Thousands of people were out of work. One friend had to relocate to Texas to find a similar job. Others have been under employed for years. I know of one who now works as a receptionist at a doctors office for peanuts. Very few found jobs at the level and income they had previously. And that hurts the American economy since people have less buying power. Those are new cars that weren't bought and vacations not taken. It's kids graduating college with huge loans since their parents had to spend their savings on living expenses while unemployed.

And that huge architecturally significant building has been sitting vacant for a dozen years.

Edited January 2, 2015 by Tom Geiger

[Danno]

To Charlie's point, the closest to home for me is AT&T since my wife and a lot of our friends worked there. AT&Ts research center in Holmdel, NJ employed over 6000 people in technical jobs at one point. My wife and her friends started in the mail room and worked their way up into technical positions that paid well.

Enter the government who decided that AT&T was a monopoly and broke it up into smaller companies. The big research center became Lucent Technologies and it went okay for awhile. Then Lucent got bought by a french company Alcatel, who took all the patents and business, and simply closed the place. Thousands of people were out of work. One friend had to relocate to Texas to find a similar job. Others have been under employed for years. I know of one who now works as a receptionist at a doctors office for peanuts. Very few found jobs at the level and income they had previously. And that hurts the American economy since people have less buying power. Those are new cars that weren't bought and vacations not taken. It's kids graduating college with huge loans since their parents had to spend their savings on living expenses while unemployed.

And that huge architecturally significant building has been sitting vacant for a dozen years.

I know the scenario well. We also had an AT&T/Lucent/Alcatel/vacant facility in Colorado Springs.

Tom brings to mind another point. Underemployment.

All the recent crowing that the economy is improving because 'unemployment' rates are dropping is a charade. Like the AT&T/Lucent/Acatel story, most of the jobs lost after 2008 were much higher-paying jobs with much better benefits than the replacement jobs that have been 'created' in the past couple of years.

A huge number of people gave up even seeking jobs after years of hunting, and after their 2-years of unemployment benefits ended, have been living like bottom-feeders scrounging here and there. Permanent unemployment.

Even more lost those good pre-2008 jobs and have been displaced to lower-paying/lesser-benefit jobs and/or part-time only jobs with no benefits. Terminal underemployment.

And, more graduating college students are having a harder time securing good jobs that utilize their expensive, specialized educations. Intellectual underemployment.

Even the well-employed have to deal with a shift in employer-ethic. Fewer and fewer companies value good, loyal, long-term employees than ever before. The days of working for one employer for an entire career are virtually gone. Many employers are more invested in churning employees than in earning and rewarding long-term loyalty. Seems few jobs last more than 5-10 years these days.

With all this upside-down economy, the traditional path to the 'American Dream' of personal fiscal and financial security is out the window for more people than not, and the hard-work ethic is no longer justifiable in the minds of vast numbers of our population. Easier ~ and in some cases unavoidable ~ to go on the public dole than to work hard and succeed at a desirable career.

Sooner than later, there will be more people riding the cart than people pulling the cart.

[Ace-Garageguy]

All the recent crowing that the economy is improving because 'unemployment' rates are dropping is a charade. Like the AT&T/Lucent/Acatel story, most of the jobs lost after 2008 were much higher-paying jobs with much better benefits than the replacement jobs that have been 'created' in the past couple of years.

A huge number of people gave up even seeking jobs after years of hunting, and after their 2-years of unemployment benefits ended, have been living like bottom-feeders scrounging here and there. Permanent unemployment.

Even more lost those good pre-2008 jobs and have been displaced to lower-paying/lesser-benefit jobs and/or part-time only jobs with no benefits. Terminal underemployment.

And, more graduating college students are having a harder time securing good jobs that utilize their expensive, specialized educations. Intellectual underemployment.

Even the well-employed have to deal with a shift in employer-ethic. Fewer and fewer companies value good, loyal, long-term employees than ever before. The days of working for one employer for an entire career are virtually gone. Many employers are more invested in churning employees than in earning and rewarding long-term loyalty. Seems few jobs last more than 5-10 years these days.

With all this upside-down economy, the traditional path to the 'American Dream' of personal fiscal and financial security is out the window for more people than not, and the hard-work ethic is no longer justifiable in the minds of vast numbers of our population. Easier ~ and in some cases unavoidable ~ to go on the public dole than to work hard and succeed at a desirable career.

Sooner than later, there will be more people riding the cart than people pulling the cart.

Absolutely positively 100% correct.

[Aaronw]

There is a flaw in the logic that American workers have priced themselves out of manufacturing.

Most "import" cars for the US market have plants here in the US, Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Hyundai, VW, BMW, Mercedes all build cars in the US with American workers. In fact Chrysler hasn't been one of the big 3 for quite some time, being overtaken by Honda and Toyota for cars built in the US years ago. Toyota is now the 3rd largest "domestic" car maker in the US with Chrysler and Honda neck in neck for 4th place (they keep flip flopping position between 4 and 5).

You can put a lot of the blame for US carmakers problems squarely on management and investors making poor decisions.