Message to FCA: Don't Mess With My Challenger!

[dshue76]

On 1/24/2019 at 5:42 PM, Atmobil said:

But what is most annoying is that the electric car people are acting like some religous fanatics trying to convert anyone they see and treating anyone that like "fossile cars" as a heathen.

2

Trading smog for smug.

[iBorg]

I think the era of fossil fuels will end with my generation. It has effected my thought about future projects. Part of me would really love to build a street rod as a retirement project but realistically in 6-10 years I think fossil fuels will be hard to buy as will the cars I'd like to build. I, for one, can't get my head around a Model A that's hybrid power although I've seen a Porsche Speedster kit car that is electric that's really interesting.

I do think the technology is getting there. Electric vehicles can be performance vehicles although I think that unless new battery technologies come along we may have issues getting batteries due to rare minerals being scarce.

[PeeBee]

...and thanks to our current anti-cop mayor here in fun city crime is starting to rise in the subways for the first time in years, not to mention the wonderful stench of urine and vomit creeping back into the stations and trains.  I prefer to walk, even if it is 30 or 40 blocks (or more).

Anyway, I'd say that most people today don't care what their cars are powered by, just as long as it's an SUV and there's a pedal to go, and a pedal to stop.  Most can't drive a standard transmission so it's doubtful that many people care about real high performance anymore, either.  Most cars, electric or otherwise, deliver plenty of performance nowadays, anyway.  Funny that this is partly due to the stricter CAFE standards that we were all crying about back in the 70s when "they" were emasculating our Corvettes.  And from Japanese competition, of course;  remember the Honda CVCC?

As far as I am concerned, most people these days may as well be driving electrics and hybrids rather than burning a hole through the atmosphere. 

That being said, I will continue to preserve and relish my 6,000-mile 2006 Mustang GT w/5-speed as I work my way toward the "exit door."

PB.

[peter31a]

1 hour ago, iBorg said:

I think the era of fossil fuels will end with my generation. It has effected my thought about future projects. Part of me would really love to build a street rod as a retirement project but realistically in 6-10 years I think fossil fuels will be hard to buy as will the cars I'd like to build. I, for one, can't get my head around a Model A that's hybrid power although I've seen a Porsche Speedster kit car that is electric that's really interesting.

I do think the technology is getting there. Electric vehicles can be performance vehicles although I think that unless new battery technologies come along we may have issues getting batteries due to rare minerals being scarce.

I think it will take much longer than 6 to 10 years, Mike. Think of how many millions of fossil fuel driven cars are on the road right now. They are not all going to be replaced in 6-10 years. There is no doubt that is the way we are going as well as non-self driven cars. Governments are (for some reason) pushing as hard for autonomous cars as they are for electric or alternate fuel source cars. But we are nowhere close to either and again it will take years to get all the fossil fuel, self driven cars off the roads. Maybe in small countries with excellent public transportation for the whole country but that certainly doesn't describe the USA or Canada.

[iamsuperdan]

I've driven electric cars, and they have some definite advantages. However, I don't think North American society is ready for them en masse yet.

1. our infrastructure can't handle it. If you want quick charge functionality, you have to install the 240V quick charge stations. imagine the power grid is 20% of all households installed these 240V charging stations. Could not keep up at all.

2. Range. North America is spread out. Until range can equal a gas powered equivalent, it just won't fly.

3. Trucks. We like our trucks and SUVs. We tow, we carry people and dogs, and stuff. Find me an electric that can tow a 30ft camper, and carry four people, a dog, and gear...all at the same time. Oh, and I want the same range as my diesel one ton.

4. weather. Google how the Teslas handle a Polar Vortex. Pay close attention to charging times, performance, and range.

 

Sorry, until the above issues are resolved, we just won't see a switch. Europe and Asia might be a different story though.

 

 

[Richard Bartrop]

1 hour ago, iamsuperdan said:

I've driven electric cars, and they have some definite advantages. However, I don't think North American society is ready for them en masse yet.

1. our infrastructure can't handle it. If you want quick charge functionality, you have to install the 240V quick charge stations. imagine the power grid is 20% of all households installed these 240V charging stations. Could not keep up at all.

2. Range. North America is spread out. Until range can equal a gas powered equivalent, it just won't fly.

3. Trucks. We like our trucks and SUVs. We tow, we carry people and dogs, and stuff. Find me an electric that can tow a 30ft camper, and carry four people, a dog, and gear...all at the same time. Oh, and I want the same range as my diesel one ton.

4. weather. Google how the Teslas handle a Polar Vortex. Pay close attention to charging times, performance, and range.

 

Sorry, until the above issues are resolved, we just won't see a switch. Europe and Asia might be a different story though.

 

 

1.  I did some rough calculations with some number pulled off Wikipedia, and basically, if everyone went to electric vehicles,  we'd have to double the elecrticity supply.  On the other hand,  our recent experience with rewiring everything for the internet suggest that large scale upgrades to the infrastructure are doable,  just so long as we give them some time.  If we gradually introduce electrics, and don't insist we swap everything over by next Tuesday, we should be able to handle it.

2.  I'm just south of you in Calgary, and I've had the argument with people how bicycles and public transit just aren't going to cut it for everyone.  Of course, the population isn't evenly distributed, and there are clumps of population where electrics might suit people's needs just fine, just as long as people don't fall into the trap of thinking what works for them, works for everyone.   Maybe plug in hybrids are the short term solution.  Use the electric drive for around town, and switch to gas for long trips.

3.  On paper at least electric power's ability to deliver full power even at low speeds would be ideal for trucks, and seeing how those monster haulers in the oil sands use electric drive, you would think it would be possible to make an electric motor with enough grunt to satisfy even the most demanding trucker.     Like with 2,  range is a big issue, though I can see the cost of electricity vs. diesel making electrics attractive for short range commercial vehicles, depending, of course on how much it costs to switch.   It'll be interesting to see how Tesla's pickup and big rig fare in the real world.

4. That's a good question right there.  Batteries do not like the cold.  

 

[tbill]

They have good and bad points, the thing that bothers me about them is the people in the aftermarket that may get fried working on them due to ignorance of the safety practices while working on high voltage systems. I’ve had plenty of training from GM, took a ton of it when the Volt first came out, and was still a bit nervous working with/around that kind of voltage. Granted, you can get hurt fooling with fossil fuel vehicles,  but your chances of getting cooked from It are a lot less ......

[Motor City]

In the U.S. anyway, we aren't even maintaining the infrastructure we have.  Now add charging stations, autonomous sensors and mix in some ice, salt, slush, and heavy snow.  It may happen in some communities with mild climates within several years, but will probably take another generation or two to be widespread because of the tremendous costs involved.

[Richard Bartrop]

Though like the internet example, you have increased revenue to fund that new infrastructure.

[jaxenro]

On 1/24/2019 at 5:42 PM, Atmobil said:

And you guys in the US pay about 3$ pr gallon right?

With the Kroger discount I filled my Silverado’s tank yesterday for $40 USD or $1.60 a gallon. The discount was $0.40

[jaxenro]

Kind of like self driving cars electric cars are a solution looking for a problem. I don’t want to drive a golf cart down the highway. 

[Nick F40]

I'll go electric or hybrid when these guys go electric or hybrid ?

Edited February 9, 2019 by Nick F40

[Joe Handley]

I'm sure that it can be done Nick

 

 

[Richard Bartrop]

Though to put it in perspective, if you told someone at the beginning of the 20th Century how much gasoline you were going to have to refine and distribute, and how many roads you were going to have to build, they might have gone, "Right, let's stick with horses"

[Spex84]

A couple days ago AAA released a study of electric car range in the heat and cold.  They found that range diminished 12% in 20F weather, but 41% when interior heaters were used. I've now seen a lot of comments to the effect of "well, of course that happens if you leave it out in the cold! You have to pre-condition the battery if you want to keep your range, warm the car up while it's plugged in!"  Good point...but what it misses is that 20F isn't even very cold!!! I mean, -6C is practically T-shirt weather

So to recap--keep your electric car in a heated garage, keep it plugged in, pre-heat it before you go anywhere, and never street-park the car or otherwise leave it unplugged in the cold.

Every time in snows in my area, the highways are terrible...accidents or avalanche control routinely closes the highway for up to 7 hours at a time. Inevitably, travelers find themselves parked on the highway for many hours. In summer this is merely annoying, but in winter it can be downright deadly. ICE vehicles can potentially run out of gas idling to keep warm, but electric vehicles will run out of heat way earlier. ICE vehicles can be topped up from jerry cans, siphoning gas and transferring it, etc...but once an electric vehicle is kaput, it will need to be towed (unless there's a magical battery-booster technology I'm unaware of).

If there were affordable, universal, and portable range-extending batteries available AND widespread charging infrastructure then electric car travel in this kind of environment would seem more realistic. How about mobile infrastructure, like booster-trucks that cars could charge from?? I'm imagining a bunch of Teslas clustered around a specialized big rig like suckling pigs

 

 

 

[Richard Bartrop]

Sounds like we'll still need block heaters, only this time to keep the battery warm.

[Spex84]

I wonder if there's a way to make chemical catalytic heaters for batteries, something like the hand-warmers that fit in gloves. Something to that would allow travelers without access to a plug-in or charging station to warm their batteries without drawing down power. It would be a crutch, a backup solution, but I feel like creative/awkward crutches will help electric vehicles get "over the hump" and become useful in all climates and conditions.

[Richard Bartrop]

I imagine a chemical heater big enough to do the job could get expensive.   The motors and electonics are going to shed heat while in operation..  Will it be enough to be worth trying to retain it to keep the batteries at the proper temperature?