MACH WONS!

[RODOMOTIVE]

I'd appreciate it if someone could shed some light on my two AMT Mach Won kits (see pics). Scalemates shows the kit with the red Mustang being from 1971 and the white and blue one from 1975 but in Tim Boyd's book Collecting Drag Racing Model Kits he shows only the kit with the white and blue Mustang and indicates it was introduced in1970. Can someone out there in modelland clarify the years these two kits were introduced and is there another authority on model kits other than Scalemates? Thanks.

[vamach1]

I’m no expert on these but I am pretty sure the bottom kit has more of a “stock” body compared to the other kit that a more traditional funny car body based solely on the box art.  If someone has the instruction sheets that should tell you what the differences are.  I think the main complaint of replica stock modelers is once AMT or MPC changed the annual kit molds from a street car into a drag car the kits could no longer be reissued as stock.  I guess the thinking back then was who would want to build a two or three year old car so the model companies  focused on the next years body style for the annual kits and got some more mileage out of last years molds that were converted and paired with a generic funny car chassis.

[Can-Con]

First, don't put too much faith in Scalemates.  I've found mistakes in at least 3/4 of the pages I've looked at there.  It's like getting your news from the National Enquirer. 😉

Anyway, here's the body assembly section from the first one,,

 

And here's the same section from the second one,,

 

Both are the same, based on the stock body and they look to be exactly the same kit except the black stripes on the decals of the first are blue on the second.

Here's links to both,,

https://public.fotki.com/drasticplasticsmcc/mkiba-build-under-c/amt-instructions/straightline-competition/amt-70-mustang-funn/

https://public.fotki.com/drasticplasticsmcc/mkiba-build-under-c/amt-instructions/straightline-competition/amt-mach-won-mustan/

[Casey]

Open both boxes and you'll find a print date on the backside of each decal sheet. That date is usually very close to the production date for each kit:

[Mark]

They're the same kit.  The grille filler and other parts to smooth off the body were in the 1970 annual kit, which is where the body and related parts came from.  Both are numbered T-341.  The red one came first, it is in the 1970 catalog. 

The box art changed in 1971, the white/blue stripe scheme on the box tied the car in with the stripe decals in the Ford Louisville LNT-8000 race car hauler.  Not sure if the decals in the kit needed a change to match the new box art.  The Mach Won (with the white/blue color scheme box art) stayed in the catalog through 1973.

Some of these kits had bodies molded in yellow (chassis and related parts molded in white).  I've got two of these, one all white and the other with a yellow body.

[mk11]

As Mark said, the same stock '70 body is unchanged through all three kits, with only a windshield change for the latter two. The front valance from the '69 is used for the funny cars;  you can see the instructions say to file off the marker lights. The drag specific chrome tree from the .'69 long nose car is recycled in the mach won kits as well, complete with the '69 grill.

They sure don't sell for $2.25 any more... 

[Rodent]

1 hour ago, mk11 said:

They sure don't sell for $2.25 any more..

No, they don't. But $2.25 isn't my weekly model budget anymore either.

MPC's (and AMT's) price increases from $2 to $2.25 to $2.50 and the Testors paint bottles and spray bombs going up in price taught me to respectfully increase my lawn care prices as a 10-15 year old. No customers fired me over the price increase.  Mr. Timmermans, Mrs. Emmerson: I am sorry that I increased your weekly charges, but I was using The MPC Index to set the price of my service. LOL. You both have passed a long time ago, but if you are reading this, thank you very much for expanding my model collection. I think that many of us here share similar stories.

Edited March 10, 2021 by Rodent

[vamach1]

Here is the Instruction for one kit.  It’s not the drag chassis but the drag and custom options front and back parts are interesting.  It does make me wonder what happened to the molds for the stock body since the funny car parts were add ons. 

Edited March 10, 2021 by vamach1

[Mark]

Much of the chassis and engine from the annual kit were recycled into the '71-'73 annual kits.  The '73 ended up as the Warren Tope Trans-Am racing version, which was reissued a few years ago.

[vamach1]

36 minutes ago, Mark said:

Much of the chassis and engine from the annual kit were recycled into the '71-'73 annual kits.  The '73 ended up as the Warren Tope Trans-Am racing version, which was reissued a few years ago.

Sadly yes which is how to this day there’s not been a correct exhaust with the dual oval mufflers in the 71-73 kits.  Of course with the T/A version it does not matter since the pipes were routed out the side of the race car sans mufflers.  Sorry this is not the best view but it shows the mufflers in front of the rear end.

[RODOMOTIVE]

I appreciate all the info guys. Looking at the back of the decals for a date is a great idea and I will remember that but both the kits are still factory sealed so that isn't an option but sounds like the years for the models are 1970 and 1971.

Is there an alternative to Scalemates that is more accurate with info?

[iBorg]

A comment and a question....

I'd love to see both the funny car and the 1970 Mustang reissued. Most of the reissues have been kits I'd passed over as a kid....I remember building the 1970 with yellow paint and Mustang Madness decals....those were the days.

CASEY or others who know, what numbers indicate date and year?

[vamach1]

20 hours ago, RODOMOTIVE said:

I appreciate all the info guys. Looking at the back of the decals for a date is a great idea and I will remember that but both the kits are still factory sealed so that isn't an option but sounds like the years for the models are 1970 and 1971.

Is there an alternative to Scalemates that is more accurate with info?

The instruction sheets are the best bet if you can find them or search someone on Ebay that sold a kit that was opened and too pictures of all the parts, etc.  Honestly there are more accurate kits (Polar Lights e.e.)  representing a light weight body funny car from that era for a lot less cost.  If you are looking for a stock Mach1 the AMT kits are very expensive and personally not worth collector prices.  Knowing what you want to replicate would help in figuring what makes the most sense.  The only vintage kits I’ve ever bought were $50 or less but I have found a lot of built ups that were very reasonable compared to a sealed 50 year old kit for $150 that was $2 back in the day.

I forgot about the Bounty Hunter kit which is a funny car chassis and body.  Prostock bodies were at least based on an actual production vehicle whereas by the 70’s the funny cars were lightweight bodies that looked like a stretched muscle car.  Mixing a stock Mach1 body onto a funny car chassis just isn’t realistic if you ask me.  The model companies did not car - it was a way to sell more kits as who would want to buy just a plain street legal Mach1 so why not mix them together to make something that did not exist like the Mach Won.

 

Edited March 11, 2021 by vamach1
Glidden

[stevez]

On 3/10/2021 at 8:35 PM, vamach1 said:

The instruction sheets are the best bet if you can find them or search someone on Ebay that sold a kit that was opened and too pictures of all the parts, etc.  Honestly there are more accurate kits (Polar Lights e.e.)  representing a light weight body funny car from that era for a lot less cost.  If you are looking for a stock Mach1 the AMT kits are very expensive and personally not worth collector prices.  Knowing what you want to replicate would help in figuring what makes the most sense.  The only vintage kits I’ve ever bought were $50 or less but I have found a lot of built ups that were very reasonable compared to a sealed 50 year old kit for $150 that was $2 back in the day.

I forgot about the Bounty Hunter kit which is a funny car chassis and body.  Prostock bodies were at least based on an actual production vehicle whereas by the 70’s the funny cars were lightweight bodies that looked like a stretched muscle car.  Mixing a stock Mach1 body onto a funny car chassis just isn’t realistic if you ask me.  The model companies did not car - it was a way to sell more kits as who would want to buy just a plain street legal Mach1 so why not mix them together to make something that did not exist like the Mach Won.

 

Hope round 2 reissues these kits!!

[Oldcarfan27]

So where does the "longnose Mustang" fit into this series? Did it come out before or after? Was the 70 body modified into that? Could we even hope to see the stock 70 Mustang body again?

[vamach1]

Per Scalemates (if you trust that source) there were three versions.  Looking at my al bought at different times two glue bombs, one Blue Cresent instruction sheet and one decal sheet (Mach Won) it appears the Blue Cresent kit had a stock Mustang chassis with some add on parts for a Prostock drag version.  The later two Mach Won versions have a funny car chassis.  Everyone assumes the molds are long gone so the chances of seeing any of the three versions ever again is probably slim to none.  Here’s two on my glue bombs which both derive from I believe the Blue Cresent kit.  The more I learn about this kit the more bizarre it gets.  It has a Boss 429 engine but has the Mach1 molder in the rocker panel.  

The Twister decals are Fred Candy and I built this AMT based kit long before the Revell Boss 302/70 Mach1 or Torino kits came out.

I assume the Longnose version would be a separate new kit due to the length of the chassis and body.  Whether it borrowed parts from other funny car kits or was used in latter version I do not know.  The pictures of the open kit are on Ebay.  24 bids as of 10pm EST 3/19/21 with 20 hours left and it’s at $168.  😮

 

Anyone else feel free to chime in if I made any incorrect assumptions.

Edited March 20, 2021 by vamach1
Longnose

[Mark]

The Longnose body is a '69, probably modified from AMT's '69 annual kit.  Not the "AMT" '69 that has appeared in the last twenty years, that is an ex-MPC kit.

[vamach1]

20 minutes ago, Mark said:

The Longnose body is a '69, probably modified from AMT's '69 annual kit.  Not the "AMT" '69 that has appeared in the last twenty years, that is an ex-MPC kit.

Perhaps.  What amazes me is the prices of the original undersized MPC 69 Mach1/GT kit.  Other than the front end (better shock towers) I do not see much difference between that kit and the many reissues under the MPC brand including the Street Hawk version for MUCH less money.  As you noted the same kit (most of it) is now under the AMT “brand.”  I guess people want to pay a $100 or more premium for an original box and a few different parts.  It’s almost comical every version I have seen of this kit has a GT gas cap.  Does anyone know if the original kit actually has 69 Mach1 stripes?  Eventually the reissued versions had them.

[mk11]

Virtually identical interior mold lines on the amt '69 and '70 bodies would suggest possible direct lineage through the longnose '69 kit...

and then there's the longnose chrome tree supplied in the Mach Won kits, complete with the '69 grill. Would love to hear the back story on the molding process.                                                                                                                                     

Somebody out there has a longnose body they can share some pics of

[tim boyd]

The book goes into the history of this topic to a fair degree, including quite  bit on the 1969 Longnose (even two pictures of the AMT 1/10th scale wood master that John Mueller gave me for the book - including one photo with the body flipped up - that hand holding the body up was believed to be famed customizer Gene Winfield, btw).   

My decal sheet for the 1969 Longnose is dated 4-69.  The Mach Won funny car is essentially a complete copy of the Long Nose kit, but with the frame shortened to fit the body, which came straight from the AMT 1970 Mustang Mach 1 annual kit.  My decal sheet for the Mach Won kit shown in the book is dated 7-70.  I was not specifically aware of the second Mach Won f/c issue with revised box art;  thx for the heads-up on that one, I'll add a reference to that should the book go into a second reprint. 

One other comment, as least as the page clips pictured above show,  and the completely erroneous info on ScaleMates that prompted Jeff to ask his question at the very beginning of this thread, the ScaleMates history on this topic is wrong on several levels.   Don't trust it!  

Hope this helps a bit...TIM....  

Edited March 20, 2021 by tim boyd

[oldscool]

I always wanted that Mach Won kit until I saw the pic of the built up model. Thanks for saving me the disappointment.

[vamach1]

1 hour ago, oldscool said:

I always wanted that Mach Won kit until I saw the pic of the built up model. Thanks for saving me the disappointment.

I would agree based upon the asking prices.  Would it sell if it was reissued and retailed for about $30 probably so, but paying $150 to $200 for any of these inaccurate older kits is crazy.

[Oldcarfan27]

So the longnose is based on the original 69 annual, but the Mach Won comes from a 70 annual. Both may still exist. So are there TWO separate kits?

[Mark]

AMT's '69 and '70 Mustang annual kits were totally different, not a single part shared between them.  I don't think even the tires or metal axles were the same from one to another.

[mk11]

That being the case, some of the details are awfully close ...                                                                                                                                                                                        . 

 

... definitely one rarely seen in it's entirety, so it's always seemed a mystery for contents.

Edited March 24, 2021 by mk11