Return of the 1/25 MPC '68 Coronet/Super Bee RT Convertible...

[stavanzer]

Okay, Sir. But, truthfully, I am not mollified.

You ought to be happy Round2 has given you product with a built in customer base., regardless of what you think of their product.

Good thing I am not Round2. Your store would never see another case of my product. Tit-for-tat, you see.

 

['70 Grande]

All this discussion about the chassis and we haven't even seen it yet... phew, I'm worn-out!

[Justin Porter]

2 minutes ago, stavanzer said:

Okay, Sir. But, truthfully, I am not mollified.

You ought to be happy Round2 has given you product with a built in customer base., regardless of what you think of their product.

Good thing I am not Round2. Your store would never see another case of my product. Tit-for-tat, you see.

 

I'd be happier if Round 2 gave me a product with the built-in customer base of Bandai or Tamiya, both of whom have significantly higher volume and gross of sales in my shop than Round 2. I have been ratcheting down my Round 2 ordering to just "hot" releases for two years now because their practices simply aren't adding value for my customers or my business. 

Bluntly, just speaking to SKU's, there isn't a single Round 2 product so far this year that's outsold the Modelsvit 1/48th scale F-82G Twin Mustang. When one of the mightiest of American model companies can't put product one on the shelf that will outsell a premium short run kit of an obscure Korean War fighter by a tiny Ukrainian company with a tenth of the distribution network of Round 2, that's a sign that MAYBE they don't have the right answer for local hobby shops. 

But hey, they sell GREAT at Walmart and Hobby Lobby... 

[keyser]

Take it to PMs or another thread please. People like what they like. Not what you or anyone may like. It’s not dogma, you’ll not convince us nor R2 unless you buy part of the company. 
Condescension a bad look. Long term like Alan said, it won’t serve you. But, ok. 

Edited May 25, 2022 by keyser

[StevenGuthmiller]

58 minutes ago, Justin Porter said:

You seriously misjudge my attitude. I don't have a poor opinion of customer who WANT this kit, or any other kit for that matter. I happily seek out Atlantis box-scale reissues and Lindberg oddballs and Airfix Classics and Fujimi kits that still have battery boxes and all other manner of old tooling for customers because they happily want it, warts and all, and I want them to enjoy the hobby as they see fit. 

I DO have a poor opinion of Round 2's design approach and I won't shy away from that. I foresee another MSRP well higher than most other 1/25th scale Chrysler muscle cars on my shelf and very little other than that "It's a '68 Coronet convertible and we haven't had that kit available since the 60's" to justify its price tag. I'd love to be wrong. I would LOVE for Round 2 to at least come in somewhere around the old Monogram 1/24th Super Bee in terms of chassis detail. Not perfect but a nice intermediate between the category leaders and the most basic out there. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask Round 2 to cater to more than just the nostalgia customer with new tooling.

Unfortunately, auto kit comparisons are rarely as cut and dry as when a customer asks me "So, what's the best 1/48th scale Spitfire MkI?" and I can plainly offer that they have their strengths and weaknesses from Eduard's fine detailing to Tamiya's ease of construction to Airfix's comfortable price point. Since there aren't frequently cut and dry comparisons (Lamborghini Countachs, '57 Chevy Bel Airs, and Nissan GTR's are some of the few consistent examples where there are multiple comparable options on the shelf) it becomes a matter of finding what the customer is looking for and guiding them to the product that best suits their interests and needs. 

 

 

Well Justin, it is beginning to appear as if you are an island unto yourself.

My prediction is that this kit is going to do EXTREMELY well if the initial enthusiasm that I am seeing all over the web is any indication.

As Mick Jagger said, "You can't always get what you want".

But he also said, "But if you try sometime, you just might find, you get what you need".

 

Jagger may not be a philosopher, but I think in this case, he got it exactly right!

 

Tim Boyd's response in this thread is correct, and irrefutable.

This is just how it works, whether or not we want to believe it, or think that we could do it better, it is what it is, and in this case, "it is" a very desirable and long sought after relic of history that "THANKS" to Round-2 will be available to all of us again.

We can take it or leave it, and I'm pretty confident that the vast majority of modelers who had any interest in this type of subject matter in the first place are going to take it with a great deal of enthusiasm.

 

I for one, a guy who hasn't bought a "new" model in probably five years, will most likely be buying at least a couple of these.

 

Good on Round-2!!

I think they're doing EXACTLY what most of us were hoping that they would do.

I'm waiting with bated breath for their next reincarnation, as I'm certain are a huge number of other modelers.

If those others are anything like myself, Round-2 has created more excitement around the future of their product line than all of the other kit manufacturers combined with some of their latest offerings.

I'll take a '64 Cutlass, a '63 Nova wagon, and a '68 Coronet R/T all day long, no matter how antiquated they may appear to some, over another Revell Mustang, Camaro or '32 Ford.

 

The AMT haters are just going to have to miss out........or suck it up!

 

 

 

 

Steve 

[StevenGuthmiller]

47 minutes ago, Justin Porter said:

But hey, they sell GREAT at Walmart and Hobby Lobby...

And in Round-2's eyes, that's what counts.

 

 

 

Steve

[Bucky]

I'm chomping at the bits for this '68 'vert to come out, even though I have two rebuilders going. Looking forward to the future hardtop, if they do indeed offer one. Bringing these old ones back is right up my alley! Makes me hopeful that they find the '66 Polara convertible kit, and bring it back, too!

[paul alflen]

Justin Porter,  I recall when the 1963 Chevy II wagon kit was out, OH how you raved how they were flying out of your shop at the time! And you reordered and sold another case! What changed your attitude? When I worked  in retail , when our competition was blowing out a certain product for a certain price ( lower than us) we were supposed to price match it!( no profit in that, and the competition usually didn't have it in stock anyway!) (bait and switch? I don't know") So if Walmart has the Sand Shark for 25.00 retail, just don't put it on the shelves , or order it! For your customers walking in your shop, they have to take home "Something" for you to keep surviving.($$$$$$) Now Back to the regular scheduled programing " the fabulous 1/25th MPC 1968 Dodge Coronet convertible" with trailer that has never been reissued since 1968. Thank you Round 2 for this  kit offering! Now I don't have to buy the SMS resin body at 45.00 I can get a complete kit with Chrome, Glass, trailer, and kit enhancements for that price! Justin, you better order for your for your customers right now ! It is going to sell out its 5,000 kit run fast!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited May 26, 2022 by paul alflen
Gramar mistake

[Daddyfink]

[drodg]

Well there is a non built 68 R/T on Ebay right now for $740 so pretty excited about this kit.       

[StevenGuthmiller]

2 hours ago, Bucky said:

I'm chomping at the bits for this '68 'vert to come out, even though I have two rebuilders going. Looking forward to the future hardtop, if they do indeed offer one. Bringing these old ones back is right up my alley! Makes me hopeful that they find the '66 Polara convertible kit, and bring it back, too!

I have a sneaking suspicion that it's almost inevitable that there will be a '66 Buick Skylark GS on the horizon.

A '70/'71 Cyclone has to be on that docket as well.

 

I've got my wallet in hand!

 

 

 

Steve

[Chuck Kourouklis]

Roger Dodger on the Skylark!

16 minutes ago, drodg said:

Well there is a non built 68 R/T on Ebay right now for $740 so pretty excited about this kit.       

oof

[StevenGuthmiller]

18 minutes ago, drodg said:

Well there is a non built 68 R/T on Ebay right now for $740 so pretty excited about this kit.       

I wonder how this will affect the prices of the vintage kits?

Maybe not much if you're a "collector", but it's going to be murder on the guys that have been hoarding the old re-builders!

Especially if the new one is an improvement over the old.

 

 

 

Steve

Edited May 25, 2022 by StevenGuthmiller

[Can-Con]

4 hours ago, SteveG said:

Thank you Tim, you are exactly right.  I couldn't have explained it any better.  I can confirm that we would not be getting an all new modern Dodge Charger if it wasn't for the factory CAD data files, It's just that simple.   To bring a all new vintage subject to market without CAD data these days is tremendous undertaking.  Even with the data every singe part has to be converted to a injectable shape that can be assembled without any fasteners.  it's an art in it's self. 

If somehow we had found the old original Coronet RT tooling, restored it and ran it warts and all we'd be heroes.  Yet reverse engineering and the improving the exact same item is inexcusable in some eyes because we didn't go far enough.  I guess time and sales the numbers will tell us if we made the right call and help us decide if we ever do it again.

-Steve     

Steve, rest assured that most of us here do appreciate what's being done to bring these kits to market and we will be showing our appreciation with out wallet.

[drodg]

Just now, StevenGuthmiller said:

I wonder how this will affect the prices of the vintage kits?

Maybe not much if you're a "collector", but it's going to be murder on the guys that have been hoarding the old re-builders!

Especially if the new one is an improvement over the old.

 

 

 

Steve

As I saw the kit on Ebay and as I typed this earlier I thought the same thing.  I know it is different but did the new 70 Hemi Cuda when it came out from Revell (1/25) have much effect on the MPC kits from 1970?

[Justin Porter]

1 hour ago, paul alflen said:

Justin Porter,  I recall when the 1963 Chevy II wagon kit was out, OH how you raved how they were flying out of your shop at the time! And you reordered and sold another case! What changed your attitude? When I worked  in retail , when our competition was blowing out a certain product for a certain price ( lower than us) we were supposed to price match it!( no profit in that, and the competition usually didn't have it in stock anyway!) (bait and switch? I don't know") So if Walmart has the Sand Shark for 25.00 retail, just don't put it on the shelves , or order it! For your customers walking in your shop, they have to take home "Something" for you to keep surviving.($$$$$$) Now Back to the regular scheduled programing " the fabulous 1/25th MPC 1968 Dodge Coronet convertible" with trailer that has never been reissued since 1968. Thank you Round 2 for this  kit offering! Now I don't have to buy the SMS resin body at 45.00 I can get a complete kit with Chrome, Glass, trailer, and kit enhancements for that price! Justin, you better order for your for you customers right now ! It is going to sell out its 5,000 kit run fast!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What changed in my attitude, quite frankly, is that Round 2 product isn't sustainable outside of the original production runs. As volume items, consistent production runs at a volume sales MSRP (and concurrent wholesale cost) are necessary. Whenever there is a hot volume selling kit it's a nice thing. This year thus far the crown for the top volume seller in the Auto genre goes to the Moebius '64 Nova SS followed by the Revell '30 Ford Model A Coupe (love real time sales data reporting) with my top Round 2 release being the Wedge Hauler which is currently sitting behind the Salvinos JR Chase Elliot Camaro and the Tamiya Toyota GR86 in the figures. I was glad to be proven wrong by the Nova wagon because I was deeply skeptical of it upon its first showing. Then the Olds Cutlasses bombed. Then the Bruce Larson Vegas bombed. Then Round 2 started shipping those same kits to Ollies and Walmart at a retail price that was below my cost. 

Yes. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth. And here's the rub. I WANT AMT TO DO WELL. They're one of the oldest names in the industry. They have released kits over the years that I've absolutely adored ranging from the '62 Pontiac 421SD to the Watson Roadster to both of their classic Studebaker kits. If it's what my customers want I'll sell two cases of Raiders Coaches. They fit in perfectly with all the Unreal Rollers and Groovy Graders that found homes off of my shelves and all of the Son of Troublemakers that are already in bound. 

Do I doubt that the initial run will sell well to builders who have wanted a Coronet for years? No. Not at all. Clearly there's a market. Do I doubt that after they're sated it'll stay a perennially moving piece of my inventory the way the Revell '66 Impala or the Tamiya Volkswagen Beetle do? Absolutely. Do I fear that it's going to be another dust collector that's going to get undercut by a big box blowout in four months? Absolutely. 

[Michael Bentt]

 I may have a slightly different take than many here, but I see lots of things that make me wonder about the USA kit market. Going back through threads about the "new" AMT Nova wagon, I was struck by how many people said "I'll wait for the full detail kit to come out." I don't know how many did just that, but it illustrated to me that many USA builders expect a full engine. I also read several threads angry about engine inserts that could not display separately outside of the car. With this in mind, I have questions about many of the AMT/MPC kit choices so perhaps someone here could shed some light. 

In light of the information above, I wonder based on the previous poster what the long-term prospects for the also coming 2021 Ford Bronco are. It is apparently a no-engine mould, and of an SUV type vehicle. Once the vehicle gets updated/replaced in the "for real world size" will people still want those kits? I must do much of my research on places like Scalemates, but it seems that earlier Ford Bronco kits get reissued seldom. The 1979 version will be out for the first time since it was a new car kit, other than a spot run with a drag racer car included. Yet it is the Coronet making all the passion here. I think that speaks to the emotion of this subject. Talk about the 2021 Bronco has been less than any of the new moulded kits announced here. 

Also for people who have bickered about "new or old chassis" the 1990s version Roadrunners are available even here in Europe. For anyone that concerned, it would be easy to find those kits if they are better in some way on the chassis, I think. Would it not be better for the builder to have the choice to have that Coronet style instead of no choice? It seems simple to me. 

[Oldcarfan27]

4 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

...in this case, "it is" a very desirable and long sought after relic of history that "THANKS" to Round-2 will be available to all of us again.

We can take it or leave it...

If those others are anything like myself, Round-2 has created more excitement around the future of their product line than all of the other kit manufacturers combined with some of their latest offerings.

I'll take a '64 Cutlass, a '63 Nova wagon, and a '68 Coronet R/T all day long, no matter how antiquated they may appear to some, over another Revell Mustang, Camaro or '32 Ford.

I agree whole heartedly with what you said and I'm in for these kits just like I got multiples of the Olds conv and 442 and the Nova wagon

1 hour ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

I have a sneaking suspicion that it's almost inevitable that there will be a '66 Buick Skylark GS on the horizon.

A '70/'71 Cyclone has to be on that docket as well.

Can't wait!

 

33 minutes ago, Michael Bentt said:

Would it not be better for the builder to have the choice to have that Coronet style instead of no choice? It seems simple to me. 

My sentiments EXACTLY!

I also was building back when Racing Champions owned AMT/ERTL and the lack of care or passion for their kit market left me cold. They invested nothing in improving old tooling and didn't know what to do with new tooling, so their inventory was mostly dull - same reissues over and over. But now we have a company that not only likes it's job, but cares about it's history and it's market, it's a win-win as far as I'm concerned. 

[Plowboy]

1 hour ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

I wonder how this will affect the prices of the vintage kits?

Maybe not much if you're a "collector", but it's going to be murder on the guys that have been hoarding the old re-builders!

Especially if the new one is an improvement over the old.

 

 

 

Steve

Time will tell. But, I kinda doubt it. The only hope I had for the Moebius '65 and '66 F-100s was that they would make the prices of the AMT '61-'63 F-100s go down. If anything, the prices of the AMT F-100s went even higher. 

[BobbyG]

2 hours ago, drodg said:

Well there is a non built 68 R/T on Ebay right now for $740 so pretty excited about this kit.       

Once this kit is out, who ever is crazy enough to buy a kit at that price, will be very sorry he or she spent their money wastefully. 

When Steve G built his beautiful 68 R/T having an accurate grille and interior made for him, I started to hunt for an original kit only to find junk for a couple hundred bucks. But with this news, I am in my glory. And if the new kit is sub par by any means, well then Steve is my inspiration to make an accurate R/T. Just like I do with my older kits, bashing newer kits for more accuracy makes tge hobby fun. After all, we are model builders who are easily inspired by the great builders in this hobby and the actual vehicles. 

I have been critical of Round2 but they are righting their ship. Hopefully more to come in the future

 

[StevenGuthmiller]

1 hour ago, Can-Con said:

Steve, rest assured that most of us here do appreciate what's being done to bring these kits to market and we will be showing our appreciation with out wallet.

I suspect as much.

 

 

Steve

[StevenGuthmiller]

1 hour ago, drodg said:

As I saw the kit on Ebay and as I typed this earlier I thought the same thing.  I know it is different but did the new 70 Hemi Cuda when it came out from Revell (1/25) have much effect on the MPC kits from 1970?

Not quite the same thing as the Revell Cuda is an all new tool.

The vintage kit still has some allure to builders as well as collectors.

 

It would kind of be like if the introduction of the new AMT '69 GTX would have some affect on the value of the original Johan GTX.

Not likely.

But in the same vein, if the original Johan GTX were to be reintroduced, I would expect that it would undoubtedly have an affect on the vintage GTX's value.

At least for a sizeable fraction of the modeling population.

 

 

 

Steve

[StevenGuthmiller]

16 minutes ago, Plowboy said:

Time will tell. But, I kinda doubt it. The only hope I had for the Moebius '65 and '66 F-100s was that they would make the prices of the AMT '61-'63 F-100s go down. If anything, the prices of the AMT F-100s went even higher. 

But that's a little like apples to oranges.

Same basic body styles, but different years might be part of the equation.

Plus the fact that the AMT '61-'63 kits were "unibody" trucks could hold part of the appeal.

 

If you read my post to David, you'll understand my theory.......as demented as it may be.

The sustained value on those AMT Fords could be in jeopardy if Round-2 re-introduced the originals.

 

Let me put it this way.

I'm not even mildly entertaining the possibility of buying an original AMT 1964 Olds Cutlass convertible on ebay for $350.00 when I can pick one up any day of the week at my LHS for less than 10% of that. 

 

 

 

Steve

[StevenGuthmiller]

22 minutes ago, BobbyG said:

Once this kit is out, who ever is crazy enough to buy a kit at that price, will be very sorry he or she spent their money wastefully. 

When Steve G built his beautiful 68 R/T having an accurate grille and interior made for him, I started to hunt for an original kit only to find junk for a couple hundred bucks. But with this news, I am in my glory. And if the new kit is sub par by any means, well then Steve is my inspiration to make an accurate R/T. Just like I do with my older kits, bashing newer kits for more accuracy makes tge hobby fun. After all, we are model builders who are easily inspired by the great builders in this hobby and the actual vehicles. 

I have been critical of Round2 but they are righting their ship. Hopefully more to come in the future

 

I appreciate that Bob.

 

I agree 100%.

The real fun in this hobby began for me when I lost the fear of modifying a vintage kit extensively.

The fun for me is not in assembling a kit out of the box with maybe a few wheel and tire, engine intake, or other accessory additions, it's in completely revisiting all aspects of an old kit to bring it up to equal to, or better than, modern kit standards.

 

The world is my oyster!

 

 

 

Steve

[stavanzer]

Is the '66 Buick Skylark the kit that was turned into the Mod Stock Buick?

Even if it wasn't I'll be all over that kit. I like AMT Buicks of that vintage.