What AMT/MPC Molds Might Still Exist at Round 2?

[disabled modeler]

The 66 Thunderbird HT promo tool existed up to the 90's when the tooling was in Iowa. It was sampled in white ABS and I have a copy (un-plated chrome and all). Since the 66 Thunderbird convertible / glue on Landau is very common this is not that exciting, but hopefully a little interesting.

That sounds cool...!

[MrObsessive]

Moebius could consider to continue the Letter Series they already started with new tooling. They gave us the "A" and B, the C we have from AMT.D and E can wait for later (or some resin casters could be doing them using the AMT as a base kit), so the next big hit would be the F and G.
This would also yield a proper full size unibody chassis for the first time in kit history. I'd need at least a casepack for kitbashing with old Jo-Hans.

I would be all over a proper 1960-61 Chrysler letter series car! Especially the '61 which brings huge bucks in the 1:1 world-----they're the last of the big finned cars from Mopar.

[gtx6970]

I would be all over a proper 1960-61 Chrysler letter series car! Especially the '61 which brings huge bucks in the 1:1 world-----they're the last of the big finned cars from Mopar.

same here.

i would be all over a new tool 1961 300

[ChrisBcritter]

Actually the early Corvairs are very accurate - the 1961 2dr kit is the only bad one.

Not too bad; it was molded with a separate roof and chrome B-pillars. The windshield frame had sun visors. I wonder if they were jumping the gun to make a convertible but it turned out there wouldn't be a 1/1 until '62 - did Chevy plan a '61 vert but had to delay it?

I went ahead and built mine as a phantom convertible using the top boot from the IMC '48 Ford:

[ChrisBcritter]

The 66 Thunderbird HT promo tool existed up to the 90's when the tooling was in Iowa. It was sampled in white ABS and I have a copy (un-plated chrome and all). Since the 66 Thunderbird convertible / glue on Landau is very common this is not that exciting, but hopefully a little interesting.

Did they have the tooling for the glass as well? I'd like to see a photo of this test shot if you could post one.

You can't really build an accurate coupe from the convertible kit as-is; the interior isn't correct - the promo tool has the right one with the package shelf and ventilation louvers.

[disabled modeler]

Did they have the tooling for the glass as well? I'd like to see a photo of this test shot if you could post one.

You can't really build an accurate coupe from the convertible kit as-is; the interior isn't correct - the promo tool has the right one with the package shelf and ventilation louvers.

I agree with you Chris...the promo is much better looking but I love the promos and promo like stuff anyway.  I guess the kit is like it is due to the option of being able to build it as a convertible too.

[Snake45]

Couple years ago I picked up a "distressed" '66 T-Bird HT promo at a flea market for a song. Gotta dig that out and finish restoring it.

Meanwhile, I wish the tonneau cover from the original annual '66 T-Bird ragtop would be included in the reissues. Modelhaus doesn't offer it, though they do offer the one for the '64-'65. I bought one of these and it doesn't seem to fit or match up nearly as well as the one included in my old annual kit.

[disabled modeler]

Snake... I have the old 64 buildup needs work and a 66 promo in blue with a hole in the trunk otherwise its pretty nice.  I have a few old promos and buildups I need to get restored too.  Finding the needed parts is a challenge.

[Junkman]

If the promo tool, or any other, while we are at it, still exists in reasonable shape, it should be reissued.

Why can't they do a special program of unassembled promos targeted at the discerning collectors/builders, with simplified packaging,
yet slightly higher prices, to offset the lower quantities to be expected?

Those X-ELs of yore weren't cheap either, yet they sold.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Junkman

[unclescott58]

If the promo tool, or any other, while we are at it, still exists in reasonable shape, it should be reissued.

Why can't they do a special program of unassembled promos targeted at the discerning collectors/builders, with simplified packaging,
yet slightly higher prices, to offset the lower quantities to be expected?

Those X-ELs of yore weren't cheap either, yet they sold.

I agree with Christian 100% on this. I'd buy them.

[disabled modeler]

I agree with Christian 100% on this. I'd buy them.

Id buy them too Scott.

[Carmak]

The tool was labeled as a 63 Thunderbird. I will try to find it. I moved a couple years ago and I have not unpacked my kits. I can't remember if there was glass or not.

[disabled modeler]

The tool was labeled as a 63 Thunderbird. I will try to find it. I moved a couple years ago and I have not unpacked my kits. I can't remember if there was glass or not.

Love to see it Craig.

[charlie8575]

If the promo tool, or any other, while we are at it, still exists in reasonable shape, it should be reissued.

Why can't they do a special program of unassembled promos targeted at the discerning collectors/builders, with simplified packaging,
yet slightly higher prices, to offset the lower quantities to be expected?

Those X-ELs of yore weren't cheap either, yet they sold.

I wouldn't write it off, either, especially if it meant saving a mint on eBay et al.

Charlie Larkin

[High octane]

I would be all over a proper 1960-61 Chrysler letter series car! Especially the '61 which brings huge bucks in the 1:1 world-----they're the last of the big finned cars from Mopar.

What brings "huge buck$" in the 1:1 world is a long wayoff from 1/25th scale, and a LOT of kits would have to be sold just to "break even."

[Junkman]

Are you saying that 60-61 Letter Series Mopars wouldn't sell in 1/25 scale?

[StevenGuthmiller]

Are you saying that 60-61 Letter Series Mopars wouldn't sell in 1/25 scale?

I'm betting that they would sell at least as well as the AMT '57 & the Mobius '55 & '56.

I'm guessing that they all did quite well.

I think what Nick is saying though Christian, is the reason a '60 or '61 300 goes for big money now has nothing to do with popularity, & everything to do with rarity.

Only 1,200 in '60 & 1,600 in '61.

I wonder how many of them actually still exist.

 

Steve

[unclescott58]

I would be all over a proper 1960-61 Chrysler letter series car! Especially the '61 which brings huge bucks in the 1:1 world-----they're the last of the big finned cars from Mopar.

My vote would be for the '60. IMO the best looking car Chrysler ever designed.

[Tom Geiger]

Tom Geiger would know, but I believe the '66 Valiant promo was a rare one.  They didn't make many because Plymouth changed the roof and AMT didn't catch that change. Or something like that.   I believe the '64-65 Valiant kits were only available as curbsides, while the Barracuda annuals had engines.  The Barracuda tooling became the Firebowl 500, but the body became the Hurst Hemi Under Glass which reappeared a few years ago...

Thanks Rob... you are correct. The '66 Valiant Signet promo was done by AMT from the '65 Valiant tooling. That tool started out as a 1963 Valiant promo, which became the Craftsman kit, as they did with the 1964 and 1965 cars. As you said, there was a change to the '66 roofline that didn't make it onto the promo.  There is also an incorrect line at the back of the trunk lid.  I've queried every promo expert I could find and presented my theory.  Nobody could confirm any story, but all said they couldn't dispute mine.  So here goes...

I believe that the batch of '66 Valiant promos got produced and then the errors were noticed.  As promos were manufactured to sell new cars, they were useless to Chrysler and I believe they were ordered to be destroyed and the tooling destroyed.  So obviously there was no Craftsman car issued, nor was there ever another Valiant promo or kit past 1966.

I believe the cars that exist today were in the batch sent to Chrysler corporate as several of the cars I've tracked came from a Chrysler employee's collection.  I don't believe they were test shots because the promo exists in several colors and I've seen them in final promo boxes.  Thus my theory that the bulk of the production was destroyed.  I see about one of these get offered for sale a year on eBay.  I have a search agent for this, so I believe I see them all. I usually note the car, any imperfections to identify it later, and save the pictures.  I do own one that I bought from Joe Wheat many years ago.  Price range has been $350-600 depending on condition. The last few I saw had issues like missing tail lights, broken steering wheel, and worn chrome.  I've never seen one with play wear which reinforces that the saved ones were saved by Chrysler employees.

There have been two different resin copies over the years.  R&R did one and Missing Link possibly still offers it. Last I asked, they were in the process of fixing one copy to reflect an accurate '66 Valiant roof line. 

So what happened to that tooling?  Back when Dave Burket was dealing with the then owners of AMT and had them crawling through the tooling, we confirmed that the '66 Valiant tooling didn't exist.  Here's my theory...

As Rob suggested, there was a mingling of the Barracuda and Valiant tools. The Barracuda tooling started out in 1964. The first year kit had "Valiant" script on the back panel below the trunk lid, as did the 1:1 car.  Both Chrysler and AMT omitted this in 1965 so it's pretty much the same kit. On the 1:1 cars, the heater controls also changed between '64 and '65. I can confirm that they were correct on the '65 but I've never seen a '64 kit close enough to verify that.  I do have a resin copy of a 1964 body.

The '65 Barracuda tool became the 1966 car's promo and then kit.  And we've all assumed that the '66 Barracuda tool became the Hemi Under Glass kit that exists today. Now the plot thickens... remember back a dozen years when AMT announced the Fireball 500 kit?  We all assumed that the Hemi Under Glass didn't exist if the Fireball body existed.  Then we got both!  Now we have two Barracuda bodies.  I did a bit of comparing and found similar molding marks inside my '66 Valiant promo body and the Fireball 500 body.  So I believe that the errant '66 Valiant tooling was turned into the Fireball 500.  It makes sense since it's the same body shape, and the roof that was ordered destroyed was indeed lopped off!

What we have today--  Hemi Under Glass -   uses body, glass and chrome shots from last '66 Barracuda.  Fireball 500 -  Body modified from '66 Valiant tool.  Chassis is the '66 Barracuda unit with added front and rear overhangs added to match the Fireball body shape. The interior is the front half of the Barracuda tub. Dash is same with top cut off to add the Fireball padding.  Bucket seats, steering wheel and rest of the interior parts are from '66 Barracuda (Note that this is the same in the 1:1 Fireball 500. Barris never modified parts you wouldn't see in a movie). The engine is the custom Hemi from the Barracuda series.   

So that's the history the best I can deduce.  If anyone knows anything better, I'm all ears!  I really would rather know than be right.

1966 Valiant Signet in red (Tom Carter photo)

'66 Valiant promo in burgundy 

Valiant in yellow with original box.  Note that this one has a '66 Barracuda grille center installed in error.  This one was marketed specifically as coming from a Chrysler employee's collection.

Light silver blue. Joe Wheat photo.  This is the one I own.  See the detail on the C pillar?  That would be squared instead of arched on the 1966.

The entire rear window shape is very wrong.  There is also a flat spot at the center of the trunk lid that isn't on the 1:1 car. 

Photo of a real car and you can immediately see the issues.

So that's the history the best I can deduce.  If anyone knows anything better, I'm all ears!  I really would rather know than be right.

 

 

[Rob Hall]

Fascinating stuff..it's too bad AMT didn't do promos or kits of the '67+ Valiants...always liked the clean, crisp design of those.. 

[Tom Geiger]

Fascinating stuff..it's too bad AMT didn't do promos or kits of the '67+ Valiants...always liked the clean, crisp design of those.. 

There was no Valiant hardtop in 1967,  Chrysler decided it would compete with the new Barracuda coupe so it was eliminated from the line up. Oddly enough there was a Valiant hardtop in Mexico. It looks pretty nice and I have the brochure for it in my collection.

[Luc Janssens]

What about this one, IIRC it was a "the end of the line" model kit, so in theory the tool should be there, unles.....

 

[Rob Hall]

There was no Valiant hardtop in 1967,  Chrysler decided it would compete with the new Barracuda coupe so it was eliminated from the line up. Oddly enough there was a Valiant hardtop in Mexico. It looks pretty nice and I have the brochure for it in my collection.

Didn't say there was a hardtop, AMT could have done the 2dr sedan had the promo contract continued.

Interesting about the Mexico Valiant hardtop...I found this ad (link below), and it doesn't look like they used the Dart roofline...maybe a 2dr ht based on the 2dr sedan roof stamping?  I wonder when they quit making it...  in the US, of course, the Valiant hardtop did return as the Dart-bodied Scamp in '71. 

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/89/e8/a3/89e8a35b03ccbcd754fef899ab802f0b.jpg

 

Edited December 30, 2015 by Rob Hall

[Rob Hall]

What about this one, IIRC it was a "the end of the line" model kit, so in theory the tool should be there, unless.....

 

 

Yeah, wonder what happened to it...was never reissued.  It was the last stock Lincoln kit...46+ years ago.

[Snake45]

Thanks for bringing up the Lincoln. I've often wondered why the '65 has been reissued so many times and what happened to the '66-'69, which IMHO was just a little cleaner looking.