How did Lindberg end up with AMT's '34 Ford pick up molds ?

[Greg Myers]

Totally different kit. 

[stavanzer]

Jason, the Lindberg 34 Roadster P/U shares NOTHING with the Formerly AMT 34 Pickup. Two completely separate tools. The 'Berg 34 RPU is not a great kit, and never was. Original tooling is even older than the AMT tool.

[Mark]

Art, can you confirm or deny the story about the AMT '59 Buick tooling having been picked up in England by another company, and if so was it the same type of deal?

A company in England did issue AMT '59 Buick kits over there.  Not sure which one(s) (hardtop, convertible, or both) were offered, or if any other AMT kits were sold by the same company.  I believe there was an article about the Buick in Model Car Journal.  If the kits were produced there, the tool would have been shipped back afterwards because AMT issued the '59 Buick hardtop as a Junior Craftsman series kit in 1962, and reissued that in 1969.

[pack rat]

A company in England did issue AMT '59 Buick kits over there.  Not sure which one(s) (hardtop, convertible, or both) were offered, or if any other AMT kits were sold by the same company.  I believe there was an article about the Buick in Model Car Journal.  If the kits were produced there, the tool would have been shipped back afterwards because AMT issued the '59 Buick hardtop as a Junior Craftsman series kit in 1962, and reissued that in 1969.

Yes....Playcraft.  They also did the '59 Lincoln, another tool that was later reissued by AMT.  

Another "lost tool" rumor....anyone remember hearing about an AMT Chev Pickup promo tool that reappeared in the '90's in someone else's possession?  IIRC it was a '66, and there were rumors of a reissue from someone (not AMT).   

[Mark]

Another "lost tool" rumor....anyone remember hearing about an AMT Chev Pickup promo tool that reappeared in the '90's in someone else's possession?  IIRC it was a '66, and there were rumors of a reissue from someone (not AMT).   

The AMT Chevy pickup promo (a '66) is supposedly still out there in someone's possession.  Joe Wheat had a number of them run (250 or 500 from what I heard) and sold them as assembled promo models.  These are molded in turquoise, and have vacuform glass (apparently the window tooling wasn't part of the deal).  They have blackwall tires; I believe adhesive whitewall stickers were included.  I've got one of these.  American SATCO had promoted an issue of the pickup as a curbside kit (no engine, apparently none is in the tool).  The scuttlebutt at the time was that SATCO couldn't get (or afford) licensing from GM to produce it.  The Wheat issue might be an "under the radar" sort of thing.

[Art Anderson]

Out of curiosity, Where does the Lindberg 34 Roadster Pickup fall into this. Is it the same chassis tooling with a roadster cab?

I have several of the closed cab versions, but have never had a roadster version. If it is all different tooling, is it a decent kit?

NO, it's not even related to the AMT '34 Ford pickup tooling.  That's a model that Lindberg themselves tooled up.

Art

[Greg Myers]

Boy, this is turning into a train wreck. 

[SfanGoch]

NO, it's not even related to the AMT '34 Ford pickup tooling.  That's a model that Lindberg themselves tooled up.

Art

I was perusing the instructions for the AMT and Lindberg '34 Ford pickups at Drastic Plastic's Fotki page. Aside from a few differences in the bed options, they looked like the same kit. I didn't notice any difference in the parts. A situation of convergent evolution?

[Art Anderson]

I was perusing the instructions for the AMT and Lindberg '34 Ford pickups at Drastic Plastic's Fotki page. Aside from a few differences in the bed options, they looked like the same kit. I didn't notice any difference in the parts. A situation of convergent evolution?

The question I was replying to regarded LIndberg's 1934 ROADSTER pickup, not the closed cab (which is the AMT tooling).  Lindberg tooled up that roadster pickup, on their own, back in the 1960's, and is a totally different animal than the AMT kit.

 

[SfanGoch]

Ah, Okay. Got it.

 

[Daddyfink]

Boy, this is turning into a train wreck. 

Nope, not on the train 

[Shafter44]

Does anyone know the real story behind the 40 Ford kits origins? If the Lindberg kit is simply a "clone" its a very good one because I'm currently working on coupe that was put together using two partial kits I had in my stash a Lindberg 40 coupe and an AMT sedan delivery. The parts from these kits have so far been completely interchangeable with the AMT version having a much higher parts count and the Lindberg version just seeming to be a bit softer in the details and engraving, like it was made from a well used mold.

[1930fordpickup]

Very close to the same time that These trucks started to have the Lindburg name Michigan passed a law so that a shop could put a lien on tooling for unpaid bills . So I alway thought ti was sitting in a Michigan shop not one in Canada. Learned something new today. 

[Luc Janssens]

The AMT Chevy pickup promo (a '66) is supposedly still out there in someone's possession.  Joe Wheat had a number of them run (250 or 500 from what I heard) and sold them as assembled promo models.  These are molded in turquoise, and have vacuform glass (apparently the window tooling wasn't part of the deal).  They have blackwall tires; I believe adhesive whitewall stickers were included.  I've got one of these.  American SATCO had promoted an issue of the pickup as a curbside kit (no engine, apparently none is in the tool).  The scuttlebutt at the time was that SATCO couldn't get (or afford) licensing from GM to produce it.  The Wheat issue might be an "under the radar" sort of thing.

Not the only thing that didn't happen at Satco, if memory serves me right they also announced a '66 Chevy Impala hardtop somewhere in the late 90s.

Wonder what happened to the company and it's (non Aoshima) tire tooling.

[Art Anderson]

Does anyone know the real story behind the 40 Ford kits origins? If the Lindberg kit is simply a "clone" its a very good one because I'm currently working on coupe that was put together using two partial kits I had in my stash a Lindberg 40 coupe and an AMT sedan delivery. The parts from these kits have so far been completely interchangeable with the AMT version having a much higher parts count and the Lindberg version just seeming to be a bit softer in the details and engraving, like it was made from a well used mold.

IIRC, that "almost clone"'40 Ford Coupe" originated as a Palmer kit.

Art

Does anyone know the real story behind the 40 Ford kits origins? If the Lindberg kit is simply a "clone" its a very good one because I'm currently working on coupe that was put together using two partial kits I had in my stash a Lindberg 40 coupe and an AMT sedan delivery. The parts from these kits have so far been completely interchangeable with the AMT version having a much higher parts count and the Lindberg version just seeming to be a bit softer in the details and engraving, like it was made from a well used mold.

For years, the "epicenter" of model kit tooling for major model kit manufacturers in the Midwest was a group of small toolmaking shops in Windsor, Ontario.  AMT, MPC and even Monogram used them.  When I was doing box-art and trade show display builtups for AMT and Lesney AMT (1975-December 1980) that was the case, and lead to a very interesting situation there at the very end:

I was sent, by Lesney-AMT, a set of test shots, of a 1981 Camaro kit, which kit also had components to do a Firebird.  Lesney wanted the parts built up into a Turbo Trans-Am, complete with those "Turbine" style wheels having large center hubcaus for that smooth look.  I as able to replicate those for the company, built up the car, and prepared to deliver it to the American Airlines Express Freight Office at O'Hare International Airport as part of my then-monthly trip to Western Springs IL for the November 1980 meeting of Lake Michigan Model Car Club (of which I was a member for several years (commuting there from Lafayette IN monthly).  As the model was for the '81 HIAA Trade Show, I was to send it to Lesney's New Jersey headquarters.

At the meeting, I quietly, and privately showed my builtup to the late Jack Willer (then a wood-pattern maker for Monogram).  Jack's surprise was ineresting--he told me quietly that what I had was a MONOGRAM test shot--and that somehow, Lesney-AMT's people from Warren MI must have gotten it  from the same tool shop where Monogram was then having tooling cut.  He swore secrecy on the model, as I did at the time (even though it was to be unveiled in January at HIAA in Houston TX.

Buried in some carton in my Lock n Store, I still have the unused Camaro parts from that kit.

There were a handful of injection-molding tool shops in Windsor back then, owned ostensibly by a group of siblings/cousins from the same family, doing toolmaking for not only model companies, but also for the auto industry. (Keeping it "all in the family"?)

Art

Edited February 24, 2016 by Art Anderson

[ChrisBcritter]

IIRC, that "almost clone"'40 Ford Coupe" originated as a Palmer kit.

Art

Did Palmer ever release that 1/25 '40 Ford? I've never seen an image of a Palmer-boxed version. I've only seen the 1/32 '40 Ford sedan that they sort-of-cloned from the AMT All Stars kit.

Edited February 25, 2016 by ChrisBcritter

[Mark]

Palmer (under the PSM brand: Palmer Scale Models) cribbed three 1970 annual kits.  They issued a Challenger and a Corvette (copies of MPC kits) and a "Boss 302" Mustang that is copied from parts of AMT '69 and '70 Mustangs.  The "Boss 302" kit included a 428 engine (but not a 302).  They did some totally original parts like the Mustang's hubcap/trim ring wheels, and some Firestone radial (!) tires.  The Challenger was issued as a '71, and a custom '72.  The Mustang was hacked up to look like a '71.  The Corvette was reissued as a custom-only version later.  Lindberg reissued all three of these, with different wheels and tires.  The Challenger is probably the best of the three, a little rough around the edges but the body is passable.  The '70 Mustang isn't totally irredeemable.  I've never had the 'Vette so I can't say if it is any good or not.

PSM never released the '40 Ford coupe.  I heard a rumor that they started on a crib of the AMT '36 Ford coupe but never finished that one. 

[Art Anderson]

Palmer (under the PSM brand: Palmer Scale Models) cribbed three 1970 annual kits.  They issued a Challenger and a Corvette (copies of MPC kits) and a "Boss 302" Mustang that is copied from parts of AMT '69 and '70 Mustangs.  The "Boss 302" kit included a 428 engine (but not a 302).  They did some totally original parts like the Mustang's hubcap/trim ring wheels, and some Firestone radial (!) tires.  The Challenger was issued as a '71, and a custom '72.  The Mustang was hacked up to look like a '71.  The Corvette was reissued as a custom-only version later.  Lindberg reissued all three of these, with different wheels and tires.  The Challenger is probably the best of the three, a little rough around the edges but the body is passable.  The '70 Mustang isn't totally irredeemable.  I've never had the 'Vette so I can't say if it is any good or not.

PSM never released the '40 Ford coupe.  I heard a rumor that they started on a crib of the AMT '36 Ford coupe but never finished that one. 

Come to think about it, I seem to recall now that it was MPC that did the '40 Coupe, and rather poorly as well.

[Fabrux]

The MPC '40 Ford coupe is the recently reissued snap kit, is it not?

[Junkman]

That '34 PU has been around the block a few times, hasn't it?

Still at AMT, there were at least four issues before the one with Art's box art model.

The oldest one I have is the "Street Rods" issue.
The green one at the lower right is quite reminiscent of the Alexander Brothers' Grasshopper, which really was a '31 though.

 

 

[Junkman]

I didn't know about the '81 bankruptcy, but now I understand why AMT kits were so hard to obtain in early 80s Europe.
Lesney never got it into full swing and the range was rather limited under their reign. I also remember, that the plastic they used often was of inferior quality, so the kits were sometimes unbuildable.
A few of the tools ended up with ESCI at the time, I remember the 289 Cobra, and the '57 and '58 Chevies, as well as some of the 1/16 kits.
The quality of those Italian issues was vastly superior to what Lesney deemed acceptable.

I remember the following European companies having issued kits made from AMT tooling:

Playcraft ('59 Buick and Lincoln)
Heller ('68 Shelby Mustang, various 1/43 scale trucks)
Frog ('68 Mustang and Galaxie)
ESCI (289 Cobra, '57 and '58 Chevies, various 1/16 scale kits)

There may have been more.

 

[Dave Van]

Does anyone know the real story behind the 40 Ford kits origins? If the Lindberg kit is simply a "clone" its a very good one because I'm currently working on coupe that was put together using two partial kits I had in my stash a Lindberg 40 coupe and an AMT sedan delivery. The parts from these kits have so far been completely interchangeable with the AMT version having a much higher parts count and the Lindberg version just seeming to be a bit softer in the details and engraving, like it was made from a well used mold.

MPC did a snap 40 Ford but I always understood the Lindberg ws a Palmer kit.

[Greg Myers]

So what's the time span between AMT "losing" the molds and Lindberg "Finding" them ?

[unclescott58]

So what's the time span between AMT "losing" the molds and Lindberg "Finding" them ?

And when the be offered again in a retro style AMT box?

[1930fordpickup]

So what's the time span between AMT "losing" the molds and Lindberg "Finding" them ?

1977 is the last issue by AMT. 

1992 first issue by Lindberg. 

This info is from the Directory.

That is a long time for a mold sitting in a shop with an unpaid tab on it. Makes you wonder why it was not scrapped out before that and how many more that might have been scrapped. 

Edited February 25, 2016 by 1930fordpickup