AMT and MPC Please Put Out Significant Kits

[Ace-Garageguy]

24 minutes ago, Richard Bartrop said:

So the future is here.  Sounds good if you want to make something simple, but I'm wondering if they're tried making the multi part moulds that something like a car body needs?

If they  can, great,. If not, worst case scenario is that we go back to multi piece bodies for our limited run car kits.

It is entirely possible to make multi-part molds with sliding sections that work just as high-production steel tools do now. This "soft" tooling can be made very quickly, and so should lend itself nicely to short runs of subjects that won't generate the sales numbers required to amortize traditional steel tooling that involves multiple layers of management and markup, overseas shipping, costly mistakes made due to language difficulties, poor interpretation of data by offshore tool makers, etc.

[Richard Bartrop]

That sounds very encouraging

[bobthehobbyguy]

Great info.  Some interesting opportunities are presented. Thanks for the info Ace.

[aurfalien]

Hi,

In terms of 3D prints, I'm not too thrilled on em.  At east the ones I bought on Shapeways having opted for the smoothest finish at a premium.

The current problem is in the print lines or striations in the 3d printed part.

I'll snap some pics but this seems to be the nature of printing in 3D as it prints in layers.

A mold is still the cleanest and smoothest, to me anyways.

I had to sand, primer, sand, primer and so on... to get the part pretty smooth.  On top of that it was very very brittle so caution had to be taken.

Monsignor Engwers post about a cheaper and faster way to make molds seems the way to go.

Edited November 8, 2018 by aurfalien

[Ace-Garageguy]

There's a lot of fiddling still to be done, but the people I've talked to who seem most likely to get something happening are of the opinion (and rightly so from my own perspective) that, to have a shot at making sales numbers that can turn a decent ROI, the kits will need to be injection molded styrene, and similar to what the majority of modelers are familiar and comfortable working with.

A casual modeler isn't likely to buy a resin or multi-media kit that takes significant skill to build, even if the subject is something he really wants...BUT...the same modeler is much more likely to buy a kit that goes together the same way as Revell's and R2 kits do.

The market, for instance, for the 1/24 resin Cheetah at well over $100 is severely limited due to both difficulty of assembling AND cost.

The same kit in styrene for around $50 would probably generate the sales numbers to justify a short run IF all the costs were strictly controlled by using "soft tool" technology..and if it sells out, keep doing short runs until nobody buys any.

[Ace-Garageguy]

5 minutes ago, aurfalien said:

...In terms of 3D prints, I'm not too thrilled on em.  At east the ones I bought on Shapeways having opted for the smoothest finish at a premium.

The current problem is in the print lines or striations in the 3d printed part.

I'll snap some pics but this seems to be the nature of printing in 3D as it prints in layers.

A mold is still the cleanest and smoothest, to me anyways.

I had to sand, primer, sand, primer and so on... to get the part pretty smooth.  On top of that it was very very brittle so caution had to be taken.

 

It's getting better, fast. Last weekend, I saw pre-production parts that are as clean and "line" free as injection molded counterparts, and that have the additional advantage of lacking mold-lines from the tool-halves (where flash forms). I also saw parts that would be virtually impossible to make by injection molding...so finely detailed in 1/24 scale that they really defy belief.

It's coming, guys.

[aurfalien]

8 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

It's getting better, fast. Last weekend, I saw pre-production parts that are as clean and "line" free as injection molded counterparts, and that have the additional advantage of lacking mold-lines from the tool-halves (where flash forms). I also saw parts that would be virtually impossible to make by injection molding...so finely detailed in 1/24 scale that they really defy belief.

It's coming, guys.

Hi,

Very very nice info.  Shapeways has a new smoothest finish option and I wonder what those look like.

Not all parts are offered with it, or even the finish that I opted for.

Perhaps casters should start learning 3D modeling warez.

I've been so very disappointed in placing orders for very very cool kits to then be contacted later saying "Sorry the mold is worn and I can't make another..."

In fact, I have a 1/24 Fisher Ferrari 365 White Elephant that will never be available again.  I was very very very lucky to have bought it when I did.

Edited November 8, 2018 by aurfalien

[1972coronet]

I wish that MPC would release that proposed 1987 Yugo GV that was announced for Sept. 1987 release . 

I wonder if Round2 has the tooling ?

Then there's the 1986 Hyundai Excel that was announced in June 1986 as a Sept 1986 "New Tool" .

Nothing there , either .

Oh , and classic rock salad dressing ... panasonic hitler exhaust ... 

I'm eating grapes now .

[Richard Bartrop]

There's nothing magic about 3D modeling.  It's just another skill to learn, just like every other skill you've learned to make models.   In fact, if you've done any scratchbuilduilding, you've already learned most of what you need to know.

[peteski]

1 hour ago, Richard Bartrop said:

There's nothing magic about 3D modeling.  It's just another skill to learn, just like every other skill you've learned to make models.   In fact, if you've done any scratchbuilduilding, you've already learned most of what you need to know.

While I agree that it is not magic, I strongly disagree that just knowing how to scratchbuild items from physical raw materials gives you most of the skills needed for 3D  modeling.

Being proficient at designing in a virtual 3-dimansional space on a computer is a whole different skill set which must be learned from scratch. Some of it might be intuitive (especially when you are familiar with 2D drafting), but taking it to a 3rd dimension is a large leap. Designing simple objects is fairly easy, but it takes lots of know-how do design more complex objects, especially with complex surfaces.  The degree of the learning curve also depends on the CAD software being used.

[aurfalien]

Hi,

I'd have to concur with Petski as any 3D modeling software will take time to use.

Fortunately Maya is available for a modest monthly rental and there are several courses like those offered on lynda.com that can help. 

Although my client has been using Modo and Blender more and more for modeling tasks.  Maya has become a bit Swiss Army Knife-ish.

[Rigor]

14 hours ago, Richard Bartrop said:

The technology exists to 3D print metal, and it's being used to make parts for jet and rocket engines.  You have to wonder how long before it's practical to print out your injection moulds directly.

Why would they 3D printing is on the move. Makes more sence to buy a file of the model you want then print it yourself. 2or 3 years lots of people will have home printers. That's gonna kill injection molding 

[aurfalien]

31 minutes ago, Rigor said:

Why would they 3D printing is on the move. Makes more sence to buy a file of the model you want then print it yourself. 2or 3 years lots of people will have home printers. That's gonna kill injection molding 

Hi,

Well the interesting thing about this view point is that ppl still can't seem to print a photograph correctly as it's not as simple as it seems.  Not to mention a seemingly benign task.

Try and print something in 3D.  I've tried, it's hard and time consuming.

And lastly, in terms of predicting the future, do you remember the late 70's early 80's IBM commercial with Charlie Chaplin selling an 8088?

"Welcome to the paperless office"

Three years passes quickly and not a whole lot changes during that amount of time.

[Rob Hall]

57 minutes ago, Rigor said:

Why would they 3D printing is on the move. Makes more sense to buy a file of the model you want then print it yourself. 2or 3 years lots of people will have home printers. That's gonna kill injection molding 

I've been hearing '2-3 years' for the last 5 years or more.  I'm skeptical... I think it's going to be quite a while before 3D printing at home is mainstream and as easy as buying a normal or resin kit or parts.   I did a bit of 3D printing w/ a printer in my company office 4+ years ago, it was slow and tedious and more often than not, ended up w/ items that were broken or broke easily.  I'm sure it's better now, but..

I have bought a few parts from a vendor on Shapeways, some neat stuff in a clear frosted material ('68-69 Plymouth parts). 

Edited November 8, 2018 by Rob Hall

[Richard Bartrop]

1 hour ago, Rigor said:

Why would they 3D printing is on the move. Makes more sence to buy a file of the model you want then print it yourself. 2or 3 years lots of people will have home printers. That's gonna kill injection molding 

Basically, injection moulding is fast and cheap, but it's traditionally been the setup costs that kill you.  Now it might get to that point where 3D printing is just as fast and cheap, but we still have a while to wait on that.  In the near term, I can certainly see it replacing resin, especially for small stuff.

[Rigor]

Well it's still moving. There not even printing with plastic spools anymore there using powders so there's no runners or waste 

[Ace-Garageguy]

 DLP light-cured LIQUID-RESIN systems are available now. Watch the video for some pretty fine quality for a "desktop" machine.

 

 

Edited November 8, 2018 by Ace-Garageguy

[aurfalien]

Wow, now THIS is totally cool!

I can see resin casters totally getting into this in supporting there business.

Me personally, I can barely build a model kit and it takes me for ever to do it.  So designing and printing a part is not realistic for me.

Thanks for the video Monsignor! 

Edited November 8, 2018 by aurfalien

[Faust]

I know I'm a day late and a dollar short, but...

I love what Round 2 does. Not all of it, of course. I don't buy every kit from ANY maker. However, they release stuff I love and can't find elsewhere. I love my loser cars, and they've had me covered now for years. Pinto, Pacers, Gremlins, Volares... not to mention some Street Vans. They have a good stable of super old, medium old and newish kits, with a wide range of subject matter. 

I personally feel itchy when I see a company "waste" resources on more '32 Fords, Tri-Chevvies or Chevelles. But that's me. I show my support where I want, and let others do the same. I've thrown a lot of $$$ at Round 2 because they're  like factory-fresh ebay finds. If  that's now YOUR thing, that's cool. Just don't ruin it for others. 

As for 3D printing; I just build what I'm given and do my darndest to scrabble the rest out of spares and sheet styrene. Still, darn impressive what the tech can do!

[martinfan5]

Round2 is doing whats working for them, and I dont see them changing it anytime soon.   It would be nice to see them do some new tooled kits , but its interesting to see what old long OOP kits they bring back.

[Rob Hall]

They have been repeating themselves in recent years with multiple reissues of certain kits in different box art and a few extras.    But what they have in existing tooling that hasn't been reissued in the last 30-40 years is yielding some interesting reissues like the Toyota pickup, vans, Pacer, Gremlin, etc....wondering what they have left like that, thinking through the annuals that still exist and weren't modified for other years..

[Richard Bartrop]

I like the oddballs too, but I don't think it's a waste when they make kits of popular subjects.  Certain cars are iconic, and there's usually a good reason for it.

[Force]

Of course Round 2 have to do reissues, everyone does and the tooling has to be paid for somehow...but reissues only...over and over and over and over again...nah...it has been 10 years since Round 2 took over after RC2 and I had thought they would have come out with a couple of new tooling kits each year by now.
As they own AMT, MPC, Lindberg, Hawk and Polar Lights...and now with Revell and Moebius under new ownership...who knows how many new kits we will have in the future, old modelbuilders can't live on reissues alone as you can only have so many of each...we need new kits too.

[StevenGuthmiller]

It's all in the name folks.

"Round 2" says everything that you need to know.

Some very enterprising gentleman bought up a whole bunch of existing molds and went into the business of re-popping old kits.

They can focus on profits without the huge expense of development a production of new tooling.

You can't blame them for that.

But I doubt that you will see a whole lot for new kits from Round 2.

 

Steve

Edited November 9, 2018 by StevenGuthmiller

[Force]

If it only was round 2, it's round 3 and 4 for some kits.