Serious 3D printing inquiry...

[Rusty92]

I would like them, they are interesting and very lifelike. The texture has ruined some of the pieces I’ve purchased and I will use them, but it will be hard to clean them up extensively. Injection molding is just so smooth to the eye. 

[Codi]

Great topic and query Dann.  I personally love the pale blue 908 and the dark blue Countach he made.  They're outstanding and I'd love to see multiple close up pics of those (and others too of course).   The technology has come so far so fast. I liken to computer capabilities.  The next 5 years will be truly amazing to watch as to what it evolves.  No doubt we'll look back and be amazed at the "early years" versus what they'll be able to do in the near future.  I personally can't wait to see small parts printed in metal that are refined.  Might take a while for our hobby but it should trickle down, hope I get to see it come to fruition.   Of the cars you shared with him my hands down top pick would be Hennessy Venom.   That would a one of a kind freak of a car.   Hope he develops THAT one!!!  You have great taste in cars sir.  cheers

[Bainford]

Interesting topic. Of the choices mentioned I would be most interested in the Exige, but only in 1/24 scale. Price would have to be somewhat reasonable as well.

[Dann Tier]

On ‎4‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 1:43 PM, Codi said:

Great topic and query Dann.  I personally love the pale blue 908 and the dark blue Countach he made.  They're outstanding and I'd love to see multiple close up pics of those (and others too of course).   The technology has come so far so fast. I liken to computer capabilities.  The next 5 years will be truly amazing to watch as to what it evolves.  No doubt we'll look back and be amazed at the "early years" versus what they'll be able to do in the near future.  I personally can't wait to see small parts printed in metal that are refined.  Might take a while for our hobby but it should trickle down, hope I get to see it come to fruition.   Of the cars you shared with him my hands down top pick would be Hennessy Venom.   That would a one of a kind freak of a car.   Hope he develops THAT one!!!  You have great taste in cars sir.  cheers

Thanks, bud!!, I totally agree!...I will wait until it passes my own personal standards.

[Dann Tier]

On ‎4‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 2:11 PM, Bainford said:

Interesting topic. Of the choices mentioned I would be most interested in the Exige, but only in 1/24 scale. Price would have to be somewhat reasonable as well.

That is so true, bud!, if its a special car that I really NEED, I will pay. How many of us have won kits on ebay that cost us $425, for an example, or purchased any kits from MFH, which can cost even more! 

[Dann Tier]

On ‎4‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 11:38 PM, peteski said:

Yes, those *LARGE* scale 3D printed models are beautiful.  But I'm sure they didn't come out of the printer looking like that - I'm sure some prep was involved to produce those stunning models. Also, I would be really interested what brand/model printed is being used to print those parts.  I'm pretty sure it is not a $700 hobby printer. It is likely an industrial machine, way out of reach of reach of an average modeler. It probably costs more than your yearly salary.  And the cost of resin also needs to be considered.

But (as seen here), I have to say that the technology is already here for making 3D printed model cars.

Hey, bud!, here is his reply to his printer;   "Its a huge SLA , that does 140cm x 70cm x 55cm

[Dann Tier]

On ‎4‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 10:01 PM, iamsuperdan said:

My two cents...

3D parts are expensive. And I think that while the tech is here right now to get ultra-high quality, the cost of the hardware to get that quality makes things prohibitive for the majority of builders. If you just spent $5k plus on a high quality 3D printer, how would you price parts for scale models? Either sell a few at a higher cost, or sell a bazillion pieces at a lower cost? I've seen the quality pieces, and I've seen the "pretty good" pieces, and in most cases, they match or exceed kit quality. Especially when discussing AMT re-pops, which is all they seem to do now. However, for the costs involved, the quality had darn well better be high. I bought a 1/24 turbo for $15. I still think I'm dumb. $15 for two pieces that combined are smaller than an M&M. But they need no work, other than paint.

Conversely, I've bought 3D parts that are accurate, but require a lot of sanding and smoothing and finishing before I can paint. And because I deal mainly in 1/24 and 1/25, sanding these smaller parts can be tedious work. 

So is the tech there? Of course it is. Is it worth it yet? Not for me it isn't. And I'm nowhere near the builder Dann or many others here are.

 

Anyway, the quality of those kits looks stunning. I'd be curious about what the parts look like when they're fresh from the printer though. 

As for interest? Of the ones you mentioned Dann, not really. The Esprit would be most interesting to me, but my interest will fade or grow significantly depending on what kind of costs we'd be looking at. I'm guessing cost would depend on volume?

 

Hey, bud!, here are some parts right out of the printer...

[iamsuperdan]

Well...I would say I have zero concerns about the quality coming out of that printer! looks fantastic!

I can't imagine this is the $700 printer one finds on Amazon. I'm thinking high end professional grade?

 

What is he looking at charging for his product?

 

 

 

[Dann Tier]

1 hour ago, iamsuperdan said:

Well...I would say I have zero concerns about the quality coming out of that printer! looks fantastic!

I can't imagine this is the $700 printer one finds on Amazon. I'm thinking high end professional grade?

 

What is he looking at charging for his product?

 

 

 

Yes it is a professional grade, bud...….he has the money for sure.....one of his actual cars is the very first Lamborghini gillardo to role-off the production line, and he prints 1/4 scale cars for automotive companies quite often. I will get some prices from him.

[Xingu]

Until this industry stabilizes, prices and quality will be all over the place. I think a lot of the things that most of us (on this board) would like to see, would not appeal to the "mainstream" model buyer. We, overall, are the lunatic/hardcore fringe. Prices will remain high for a person to put the time and effort into designing/building the file needed to print a part that will sell less than 100 units. Add to that, the need to purchase a new printer every couple of years to try and keep up with the technology. Once the industry levels out a bit, I feel large companies will then make the investment for high quality equipment and software. Then we will see the better quality stuff readily available at more reasonable prices. Right now it seems the biggest complaint is the quality (texture) of the printed piece. As with most things in life, different folks have different tolerance levels for what they consider acceptable or good enough for their needs. Some folks will purchase the absolute best quality pieces no matter what the costs. Some folks will purchase the bargain basement quality pieces at entry level prices. Other folks will scream "foul" because they can't get the absolute best quality pieces at entry level prices.

Of all the photos posted, the only thing to catch my eye were the headlight lenses. For some reason, I think a highly detailed lens can really make a model jump off the table.

[Dann Tier]

53 minutes ago, Xingu said:

Until this industry stabilizes, prices and quality will be all over the place. I think a lot of the things that most of us (on this board) would like to see, would not appeal to the "mainstream" model buyer. We, overall, are the lunatic/hardcore fringe. Prices will remain high for a person to put the time and effort into designing/building the file needed to print a part that will sell less than 100 units. Add to that, the need to purchase a new printer every couple of years to try and keep up with the technology. Once the industry levels out a bit, I feel large companies will then make the investment for high quality equipment and software. Then we will see the better quality stuff readily available at more reasonable prices. Right now it seems the biggest complaint is the quality (texture) of the printed piece. As with most things in life, different folks have different tolerance levels for what they consider acceptable or good enough for their needs. Some folks will purchase the absolute best quality pieces no matter what the costs. Some folks will purchase the bargain basement quality pieces at entry level prices. Other folks will scream "foul" because they can't get the absolute best quality pieces at entry level prices.

Of all the photos posted, the only thing to catch my eye were the headlight lenses. For some reason, I think a highly detailed lens can really make a model jump off the table.

I was amazed by those too!!!

[mademan]

On 4/2/2019 at 1:50 PM, Ace-Garageguy said:

Not to be snarky, but you're well behind the curve if you really believe that.

I have seen (in person) and now have in my possession some other 3D-printed parts that exceed the quality that's EVER been obtained via injection-molded styrene.

The technology is "there" today. It's just a matter of time before it becomes widely available.

And I'm NOT one to give praise where it's undeserved...as anyone familiar with my posts will know.

There are four 1/25 parts on my bench that should satisfy the MOST DEMANDING MODELER for as long as building models is a hobby. 

kit engine with alum valve covers in the brown.... fully 3d printed engine in the Bronze.... 3d printed ignition box, engine, intake, carb etc...... I think we are "there" when it comes to 3d printing and the hobby.

[Dann Tier]

10 hours ago, mademan said:

kit engine with alum valve covers in the brown.... fully 3d printed engine in the Bronze.... 3d printed ignition box, engine, intake, carb etc...... I think we are "there" when it comes to 3d printing and the hobby.

I can clearly see the lines/ layers all over the 3D parts....especially those valve covers. It might be "there" for you, but not even close for me!....photos usually hide many things, imagine if I saw that in person!!

[Dann Tier]

NEXT...….

 

[mikemodeler]

Thanks for sharing Dann, those are some beautiful pieces and I am sure worth every penny. I look forward to the day when more 3D printed stuff is like that and at a reasonable cost for more builders.

And don't apologize for being particular about what you are looking for, it's your right as a consumer. Some people are happy with price, others with subject regardless of quality and a few seek perfection. 

[Tommy124]

On 2.4.2019 at 9:20 PM, Dann Tier said:

My question is; how many of you would be interested in an Esprit GT3 V8?

Dann, to be honest, I am not quite sure about your inquiry. Do you mean how many others here might be interested in having such a kit ourselves or do you mean how many would be interested in seeing YOU build one?

Edited April 8, 2019 by Tommy124

[Tom Geiger]

Note- Model Builders Warehouse will be at NNL East in a few weeks!

[Dann Tier]

On ‎4‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 10:00 AM, Tommy124 said:

Dann, to be honest, I am not quite sure about your inquiry. Do you mean how many others here might be interested in having such a kit ourselves or do you mean how many would be interested in seeing YOU build one?

It was originally about seeing how many would be interested in buying a kit. My friend asked me what i'd like to see as a kit, so I sent him the posted four suggestions, and told him that I bet people would really like a V8 Esprit, instead of the VERY fiddly Monogram kit being our only option. I told him i'd inquire to see if it was worth his time to do a very short production run of them.

[Dann Tier]

On ‎4‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 12:00 PM, Tom Geiger said:

Note- Model Builders Warehouse will be at NNL East in a few weeks!

no thanks.

[Dann Tier]

On ‎4‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 8:57 PM, mikemodeler said:

Thanks for sharing Dann, those are some beautiful pieces and I am sure worth every penny. I look forward to the day when more 3D printed stuff is like that and at a reasonable cost for more builders.

And don't apologize for being particular about what you are looking for, it's your right as a consumer. Some people are happy with price, others with subject regardless of quality and a few seek perfection. 

Thanks, bud!, i'm definitely NOT apologizing, that's for sure....lol

 

[aurfalien]

Hi,

My 2 Dinars here (Currency used in Serbia).

The stuff from Shapeways is a little grainy, even there premium finish which was then called Smoothest Fine Detail.

They now have another which is supposed to be even finer and smoother.

Attached are some pictures of a mid engined 70's era race car tranny that I just had to have.  I had several of them but they all burned up so I don't have the ability to take pictures of the raw product from Shapeways but like I said, they were a tad grainy.

I applied several light coats of Alclad filler/primer diluted using Gunze Leveler.  With a bit of very light sanding in between coats.

While its expensive, some stuff I can only find there, like the fore mentioned tranny.

PS One can make anything work and Randys/MBWH upcoming spoked wheels look awesome, plus he's become a good friend so I'll for sure buy those from him and just abut anything else for that mater.

PSS  I do agree with Dan though, 3D printing can be grainy and pricy but that's ok with me.  I wished everything was of the same amazing quality as HRM fromage which is good old fashioned resin casting.

 

 

   

Edited April 9, 2019 by aurfalien

[Dann Tier]

1 hour ago, aurfalien said:

Hi,

My 2 Dinars here (Currency used in Serbia).

The stuff from Shapeways is a little grainy, even there premium finish which was then called Smoothest Fine Detail.

They now have another which is supposed to be even finer and smoother.

Attached are some pictures of a mid engined 70's era race car tranny that I just had to have.  I had several of them but they all burned up so I don't have the ability to take pictures of the raw product from Shapeways but like I said, they were a tad grainy.

I applied several light coats of Alclad filler/primer diluted using Gunze Leveler.  With a bit of very light sanding in between coats.

While its expensive, some stuff I can only find there, like the fore mentioned tranny.

PS One can make anything work and Randys/MBWH upcoming spoked wheels look awesome, plus he's become a good friend so I'll for sure buy those from him and just abut anything else for that mater.

PSS  I do agree with Dan though, 3D printing can be grainy and pricy but that's ok with me.  I wished everything was of the same amazing quality as HRM fromage which is good old fashioned resin casting.

 

 

   

You made that look pretty decent, bud, but I can still see the "layers", which would drive me mental.....I will stic with those great resin parts until they fix the issues, lol

[aurfalien]

9 minutes ago, Dann Tier said:

You made that look pretty decent, bud, but I can still see the "layers", which would drive me mental.....I will stic with those great resin parts until they fix the issues, lol

Thank you for the kind words.

[Dann Tier]

As promised before, here are some plastic spokes that came from a OLD Protar Ferrari kit......if you know where to look, there are OUTSTANDING PLASTIC spokes out there.....3D cant touch these.....PE cant touch these!!….hand-laced is its only better. Italeri has some just like these, Aoshima has some, as does Fujimi, which are made in different sizes, and finishes.

 

[iBorg]

A few thoughts.

In some ways I compare this to the ALPS printers. When they first came out they did not sell. This was due to several reasons. First off, they needed more computer horsepower than the average computer. In fact, they needed a top of the line computer. If you could connect it, I think an iPhone 8 would power it. In addition, the software to create the required files was very uncommon when the ALPS was in production. Many high schools now teach that software.

A misconception is that with larger volumes printed, the cost will go down. There are two costs associated with printing these files. Designing the files and the actual printing. The cost to design will be less per piece the larger the volume printed but the cost per item printed will remain the same. Analog printing technology allows many of one while digital is one of many. There is no cost reduction in the actual printing cost of digital printed images if the volume increases.

As for quality, currently other forms of mass producing kits are less expensive and produce better quality in the hands of a skilled craftsman. If given the same quality pattern, injection molding is currently better quality at less cost per piece. If the volume doesn't support injection molding, resin casting produces better quality than the average 3D printed item but if the product is large enough and the volume small enough, 3D will be less expensive and if printed on the right printer will be equal or better quality than resin.

In many ways both injection molding and resin casting are mature technologies. There will be few if any major technology upgrades in these technologies. 3D printing is very immature. The best quality printer of five years ago, is equal to today's hobbyist printer. The technology will continue to evolve. Soon hobbyist printers will equal better resin parts. This is another facet of the hobby that some of us will explore and others will choose not to