What is your favorite Third Generation Camaro & Firebird kit ?

[Phildaupho]

My current project started off with the aim to build a car representative of a car that would have raced in the Canadian Players GM Challenge Series that ran from 1986 to 1992 for Camaros and Firebirds. I am most interested in Camaros which made up 75% of the cars that competed. I bought all the appropriate kits I could find at swap meets and have done some research online for others kits that were issued over the years. These are the ones I bought 

1-    AMT 1/25 Kelly Challenge IMSA Camaro with racing parts and separate back seat. Has disc brakes and differential torque arm. Interior has separate arm rests

2-   AMT 1/25 ’83 Camaro Z-28 with all the same parts as the IMSA Camaro although no reference is made to the racing parts in the directions

3-   Revell 1/25 ASA Camaro is a pure tube frame race car

4-   AMT 1/25 ’87 Camaro IROC-Z T-top is a 2 in 1 including a roll cage and tuned port injection engine as well as two other engine configurations – Webers or twin turbo. It appears that the ’87 kit was a completely new tool and not related to the ’83 kit in any way. It does not have torque arm and has simple wheel backs with no brake detail. Once I got into building this kit I think the ’83 was the better third generation Camaro kit.

5-   Monogram 1/24 ’85 Camaro Z-28 may be based on a snap kit but is still a pretty nice rendition of a third generation Camaro

6-   Revell 1/24 ’91 Firebird which I bought to possibly supply a tuned port injection engine and slightly better chassis for the 1/24 ’85 Camaro

I am really curious to read your opinions. You do not see many third generation GM Pony Cars posted on the forum.

 

[Casey]

I am still partial to the 1/24 Monogram '85 Pontiac Trans Am kit. I believe this kit exists now as the '91 Firebird Formula kit, but with the convex snowflake wheels, hidden headlights, and those then-new beefy Goodyear VR50 tires, what's not to like? The black and gold color scheme is rather easy on the eyes, too.

Convex snowflake wheels, hidden headlights, and those then-new beefy Goodyear VR50 tires...what's not to like? The black and gold color scheme is rather easy on the eyes, too.

[hgbben]

Is this only pertain to 1/24 and 1/25 scale kits? The 1/16 Revell IROC Z28 is a quite substantial example

[Can-Con]

Just so you know, MPC and then AMT after they merged made annual kits of every year 3rd gen. 

But if you're building a Player's Challenge car you need a hardtop, not a T-top. Only the first issue of the MPC T/As was a hardtop, all following years were T-tops. These were all 1/25

 

BUT, Casey's '85 suggestion is on the right track but I'd suggest the Monogram '97 GTA. It's the closest to the "as raced" Firebirds. 

 

BTW, I like my '85's in blue and silver myself.

 

[Phildaupho]

29 minutes ago, Can-Con said:

Just so you know, MPC and then AMT after they merged made annual kits of every year 3rd gen. But if you're building a Player's Challenge car you need a hardtop, not a T-top. Only the first issue of the MPC T/As was a hardtop, all following years were T-tops. These were all 1/25 BUT, Casey's '85 suggestion is on the right track but I'd suggest the Monogram '97 GTA. It's the closest to the "as raced" Firebirds. BTW, I like my '85's in blue and silver myself.

 

 

Very nice 85 you have. Because I decided to build an 87 Camaro I grafted the roof from from the AMT 83 onto the AMT 87. I am also using other preferred parts from the ‘83. 

I had a friend looking for a ‘90 Firebird but could not find a reference. Recommended he try an 89 which looked pretty close to me.  

Edited December 9, 2020 by Phildaupho

[Richard Bartrop]

I've built the Monogram kit, and I'm pretty partial to it as well.

[the other Mike S.]

I'd have to go with MPC for 1/25th and Monogram for 1/24th scale.  Several problems with the MPC kit though. They had a very crude engine compartment and a non flushfront window glass.  The chassis was fairly good, but it had no torque arm or panhard bar for the rear axle.  The dashboard sat at an odd angle when assembled inside the interior.  So, it takes a bit of effort to fix it up to look more realistic.  The wheels are good and the 60 series style BFG's looked similar to the Eagle GT's the real cars had in the early years.  By '89, AMT/Ertl finally tooled up a set of 50 series Goodyear "gatorback" tires which looked much better than the now incorrect "skinny" BFG's. The tread detailing on the wide Goodyears was excellent, but the sidewall detailing left a lot to be desired.  Still, they look a lot better than the BFG's on the later Iroc-Z and GTA model kits.    

My biggest pet peeve with the MPC based kits was the way the interior glass fit inside the body cavity.  When you assemble the glass inside the body, it creates a 1-2" scale gap between the surface of the glass and the surface of the front windshield header surround on the body.  The Monogram 1/24th kit looks much better in this area because the glass is mounted to be more flush compared to the MPC kit.  However, the side window profile curve looked a little too flat near the roof line compared to the real car.  The MPC kit wasn't much better, but the T-top roof style on the '83-'92 kits hid a lot of the problems they had in this area.  Back in the day, I was hoping AMT/Ertl would finally retool the interior glass to fit more flush like the Monogram kit.  Instead, they retooled the promo hardtop glass with a single large runner inside so it wouldn't sag down like the dual runner glass did on the promo models.  I believe the interior glass in the kits still used the old dual runner setup since the runners were usually separated for the T-tops when assembled.

 

[iamsuperdan]

Personally, I'm partial to the Turbo Firebird GTA kit.

Not sure why, I've just always loved the later 3rd gen cars.

[Phildaupho]

15 hours ago, Casey said:

I am still partial to the 1/24 Monogram '85 Pontiac Trans Am kit.

 

15 hours ago, hgbben said:

Is this only pertain to 1/24 and 1/25 scale kits? The 1/16 Revell IROC Z28 is a quite substantial example

 

15 hours ago, Can-Con said:

Just so you know, MPC and then AMT after they merged made annual kits of every year 3rd gen. 

 

13 hours ago, Richard Bartrop said:

I've built the Monogram kit, and I'm pretty partial to it as well.

 

10 hours ago, the other Mike S. said:

I'd have to go with MPC for 1/25th and Monogram for 1/24th scale. 

 

2 hours ago, iamsuperdan said:

Personally, I'm partial to the Turbo Firebird GTA kit.

Thanks guys, I appreciate your feedback. I thought this was going to a quick and simple project but the more I learn about the Players Challenge cars the more involved it is getting. I assume that because it was an essentially showroom stock series and at the end of the year the cars were converted back for pure street use and sold to the general public; that the cars would have been equipped with torque tubes although I have read that aluminum drive shafts were installed. The '87 Camaro kit I am using does not have a torque tube but the '83 does.

[Can-Con]

4 hours ago, Phildaupho said:

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks guys, I appreciate your feedback. I thought this was going to a quick and simple project but the more I learn about the Players Challenge cars the more involved it is getting. I assume that because it was an essentially showroom stock series and at the end of the year the cars were converted back for pure street use and sold to the general public; that the cars would have been equipped with torque tubes although I have read that aluminum drive shafts were installed. The '87 Camaro kit I am using does not have a torque tube but the '83 does.

Sounds like you have everything you need then Phil? 

Your friend must have been looking for a regular '90 Firebird or a Formula ? Yea, no one made that nose.

Monogram did do a '91Formula and AMT did the T/As but they use the "Banshee" style nose. Closest I'd suggest is get one of those and swap the nose with one from a '82-'84. fill in the grille openings and add the rub strips.

[the other Mike S.]

9 hours ago, iamsuperdan said:

Personally, I'm partial to the Turbo Firebird GTA kit.

Not sure why, I've just always loved the later 3rd gen cars.

Yes, I like that kit.  They also made a "notchback" version that year too.  The body cavity was filled in under the rear hatch area and the sail panels were molded to the C-pillar on the body.  On the real car, the notchback was incorporated into the rear hatch lid where the rear window glass would normally be. 

It's interestng that AMT/ERTL would spend the money to modify the MPC body tooling for a one year only model kit.  Perhaps they were hoping  GM would continue the notchback option for several more years.  As it was, it was a one year only option in '89.

Edited December 10, 2020 by the other Mike S.

[Oldcarfan27]

If scale is no issue - the Monogram 1/8 scale 82 and 85 Z28s are hands down the best out there. 

Next would be their 1/24 scale 82 and 85 snap kits.  Bodies are almost perfect and you can replace the chassis parts from the T/A for better detail. 

I can't understand why Monogram didn't do a glue kit of the Camaro. IMO theirs would have been the best.

[the other Mike S.]

6 hours ago, Oldcarfan27 said:

If scale is no issue - the Monogram 1/8 scale 82 and 85 Z28s are hands down the best out there. 

Next would be their 1/24 scale 82 and 85 snap kits.  Bodies are almost perfect and you can replace the chassis parts from the T/A for better detail. 

I can't understand why Monogram didn't do a glue kit of the Camaro. IMO theirs would have been the best.

Those 1/8 scale kits were pretty good.  Would love to see Revell do a limited run of the '85 Iroc-z again someday. Ebay prices are getting expensive.

The only thing I didn't like about them was the area in the middle of the front bumper between the headlights where the emblem is located .  The middle part didn't have as much of a pronounced V-shape as the real car did.  

You could somewhat fix it by pressing the area behind the bumper outward with your fingers, but the shape would flatten back out again as soon as you released pressure.  The only way to permanently fix it is to use the boiling water trick to get it to stay in shape while pressing it outward with your fingers from behind.    

Edited December 10, 2020 by the other Mike S.

[MPi-KM]

22 hours ago, the other Mike S. said:

Yes, I like that kit.  They also made a "notchback" version that year too.  The body cavity was filled in under the rear hatch area and the sail panels were molded to the C-pillar on the body.  On the real car, the notchback was incorporated into the rear hatch lid where the rear window glass would normally be. 

It's interestng that AMT/ERTL would spend the money to modify the MPC body tooling for a one year only model kit.  Perhaps they were hoping  GM would continue the notchback option for several more years.  As it was, it was a one year only option in '89.

I remember seeing just one of the real thing years ago. I wonder why they weren't more popular?

 

My favorite is Monogram's '89 Turbo Trans Am.

[Joe Handley]

Isn't that AMT Firebird GTA kit the same as the Knight Rider KITT..........um.......kit?!

 

Edited December 11, 2020 by Joe Handley

[Can-Con]

40 minutes ago, Joe Handley said:

Isn't that AMT Firebird GTA kit the same as the Knight Rider KITT..........um.......kit?!

 

No.

The GTA is a stock '89.

KITT is a very not stock '82

But, they were based on the same kit originally so a lot of the chassis and engine parts are the same. 

[Joe Handley]

3 minutes ago, Can-Con said:

No.

The GTA is a stock '89.

KITT is a very not stock '82

But, they were based on the same kit originally so a lot of the chassis and engine parts are the same. 

That’s what I was thinking, the R2 issue of KITT has a bunch if the GTA parts in the box too

Edited December 11, 2020 by Joe Handley

[Jordan White]

My favorite is the Revell 1/16 Trans Am GTA kit. Other than the incorrect 4-speed manual transmission, it is a well detailed and fairly accurate kit.

[Phildaupho]

Thanks everyone for your comments - I am really blown away by how many of those comments related to Firebird kits. I am not sure what the sales ratio for  Firebirds versus Camaros was over the years but in the Players GM Challenge Series the ratio was 75% Camaros vs 25% Firebirds. Now that I am well into my 87 Camaro project, I am planning to do a On The Workbench post in the near future.

Edited December 12, 2020 by Phildaupho

[Jordan White]

I think for me, the Firebird feels sleeker and more refined compared to the Camaro. Plus, BBS style wheels!

[Luc Janssens]

Absolutely a fan of the Monogram Firebird kits, I never had their snap-tite Camaro so can't comment on that.

[the other Mike S.]

On 12/10/2020 at 5:15 PM, Joe Handley said:

Isn't that AMT Firebird GTA kit the same as the Knight Rider KITT..........um.......kit?!

 

Well..the Knight Rider Kitt reissue is basically the AMT Firebird GTA.  In '88 or so, the body was modified with body side moldings added to the sides. GTA emblems were added to the C-pillar and the front fenders.  The Trans Am style lower fender vents were eliminated.  Other than those things, the body was basically the same from '82 to '92, except of course for the T-tops that were added in '83, and the one year only "notchback" hardtop GTA kit for '89. 

Also, in '87 or so, a small triangle piece was added to the lower A-pillar between the pillar and the door.

That's the nice thing about these kits.  They're very modular.  You can change the front rear bumpers, hood, GFX, rear wing and wheel/tires and you can make several different model years out of the same kit.  You can't do that with the MPC Camaro Z28/Iroc-Z kit because the ground effects and the front bumper was molded to the body.

For the interior, the center console, door panels and the rear seat pattern were updated to the GTA style in '88.  Since the early style front seats and dash/steering wheel are separate items, I guess the tooling for those items were saved because we saw them come back in the Knight Rider Kitt reissue along with the early style '82-'84 rear bumper.

 

Edited December 12, 2020 by the other Mike S.

[Oldcarfan27]

19 hours ago, Phildaupho said:

I am not sure what the sales ratio for  Firebirds virus Camaros was over the years....

Don't bring up viruses right now, I'm tired of wearing a mask. ?

[Can-Con]

8 hours ago, the other Mike S. said:

 

For the interior, the center console, door panels and the rear seat pattern were updated to the GTA style in '88.  Since the early style front seats and dash/steering wheel are separate items, I guess the tooling for those items were saved because we saw them come back in the Knight Rider Kitt reissue along with the early style '82-'84 rear bumper.

 

The interiors were updated when the 1/1 cars were updated too.

The '82 has the correct '82 seats, dash, console and steering wheel as the 1/1 I had, like wise the '85 has those things updated updated in the kit so it all matches my 1/1, including the very slight change in the steering wheel. 

I have the last issue of the KR kit, it does not have the early style dash or steering wheel in it, I just checked. The back bumper is different then any other issue as it has the "KNIGHT" license plate molded to it. It does have the early PMD seats but with the '91 interior bucket and KITT dash, steering yolk [not wheel] with the computer terminal add-ons same the original KITT kit. 

Basically, it's a hodgepodge of old KITT parts and '92 parts  , , and oddly the cross-fire injection and duel turbos from the original kit along with the whole original chrome shot.

Kind of an odd kit really but a great chassis/engine parts donor plus 2 glass shots, one clear and one dark grey tinted for restoring  3rd gen cars.

Edited December 12, 2020 by Can-Con

[the other Mike S.]

On 12/12/2020 at 1:22 PM, Can-Con said:

The interiors were updated when the 1/1 cars were updated too.

The '82 has the correct '82 seats, dash, console and steering wheel as the 1/1 I had, like wise the '85 has those things updated updated in the kit so it all matches my 1/1, including the very slight change in the steering wheel. 

I have the last issue of the KR kit, it does not have the early style dash or steering wheel in it, I just checked. The back bumper is different then any other issue as it has the "KNIGHT" license plate molded to it. It does have the early PMD seats but with the '91 interior bucket and KITT dash, steering yolk [not wheel] with the computer terminal add-ons same the original KITT kit. 

Basically, it's a hodgepodge of old KITT parts and '92 parts  , , and oddly the cross-fire injection and duel turbos from the original kit along with the whole original chrome shot.

Kind of an odd kit really but a great chassis/engine parts donor plus 2 glass shots, one clear and one dark grey tinted for restoring  3rd gen cars.

Yeah, it's a hodge podge because of the parts they were able to put back in and others that were forever changed when they updated the annual tooling.  The rear bumper is the '82-'83 annual updated in '84 with the "Knight" script molded to the license plate area.   

The original PMD seats and the '82-'83 style dashboard/steering wheel were saved fortunately.  The original flat hood in the early annuals and the original issue Knight Rider kit was converted to the Trans Am style hood in '85.

The two glass shots, both tinted and clear, in the lastest reissue is great though. The featureless blank red tail light panel in original Knight Rider kit must have been converted over to the convex style tail light panel in the '85 annual because that's all we get in the Knight Rider reissues that followed.      

Edited December 13, 2020 by the other Mike S.