Brushing prices, my stuff looks bad

[Milo]

The attached photo should show my problem. I brushed the piece matte black, but there’s so much texture, how do I make it smooth? Or how do I do better in be future?

[CabDriver]

What kind of paint are you using?  

Thinning it down some will help eliminate those brush strokes - but for painting a larger piece a rattle can or airbrush will almost always get nicer results than a brush

[KWT]

You'll have better results loading your brush up and making one stroke. Resist the urge to go back over your work.

But... you would be better served spraying it. Only my opinion

[Plowboy]

Looks like you're trying to brush on lacquer. You need acrylics to brush paint with. As Jim and Jeremy mentioned, it's always best to spray paint.

[jaymcminn]

Acrylic paint, such as Tamiya, Revell or Vallejo, is the best for brush painting. Acrylics tend to level themselves out and minimize brush strokes. Make sure the paint is thoroughly mixed and thinned with the appropriate thinner to a consistency where it covers but doesn't leave brush marks. You'll need to test this out on a scrap piece until you get a feel for the consistency you need. Load your brush and apply one coat of paint in one pass. Going back over the surface is what leads to brush marks as the brush pulls up the paint while it's beginning to dry. If you need a second coat for coverage wait until the first coat is completely dry.

I prefer to spray everything with either rattle cans or airbrush, just using the brush for small details. There are builders who get fantastic results with brush painting, but it takes practice just like anything else.

[NOBLNG]

Coincidentally I was going to start a thread asking members for tips and pics of their best brush painted pieces. It is -27C here (-41C with windchill) and it’s likely too cold in the garage to spray anything. So if anyone has any more tips please add them. Does anyone add paint retarder? I have some made by Tamiya. Thanks.

[Fat Brian]

Yep, you need better paint and better brushes. The best black paint, and some of the best paint in general, is Mr Color. You want the lacquer, it dries super fast and you can handle it without it turning gummy like Testors.

Some money spent on good quality brushes is important too. Different shapes do different things so a selection of flats and rounds with square tips and pointed tips and other things give you options when hand painting. 

[Milo]

4 hours ago, jaymcminn said:

Acrylic paint, such as Tamiya, Revell or Vallejo, is the best for brush painting. Acrylics tend to level themselves out and minimize brush strokes. Make sure the paint is thoroughly mixed and thinned with the appropriate thinner to a consistency where it covers but doesn't leave brush marks. You'll need to test this out on a scrap piece until you get a feel for the consistency you need. Load your brush and apply one coat of paint in one pass. Going back over the surface is what leads to brush marks as the brush pulls up the paint while it's beginning to dry. If you need a second coat for coverage wait until the first coat is completely dry.

I prefer to spray everything with either rattle cans or airbrush, just using the brush for small details. There are builders who get fantastic results with brush painting, but it takes practice just like anything else.

I'm using the small 2 oz testor bottles of paint. Should I thin it in the bottle or pour it in some mixer or something to thin it?

[Dpate]

1 hour ago, Milo said:

I'm using the small 2 oz testor bottles of paint. Should I thin it in the bottle or pour it in some mixer or something to thin it?

Honestly if you're going to brush paint a large area like that you would be better off with model color or even model air like there black brushes good thinned little with water.  I wouldn't even use tamiya's enamels to brush painting large area's like that and there perfect for brush painting, but more so detail work and small parts.  Depending on your acceptability brush painting large parts like that with any paint or brush highly doubt will  not going to give great results.  You're better off using spray bombs which will give a better finish than a brush will.  But you should prime before you brush paint especially acrylics. 

[Deathgoblin]

I do a lot of brush painting, typically everything but the body on my cars gets brushed over spray primer.  I agree with the others above: keep your paint thin.  I use acrylics, mostly Revell, Testors (when I can find them) and Citadel/Games Workshop. Craft paints can work well too.  I'll typically brush on a thin smooth coat and let it dry thoroughly, then once dry go over it with another coat.  

[Milo]

And is there anything I can do anymore to revert the roughness? Is there a way to wetsand it?

[Fat Brian]

2 hours ago, Milo said:

And is there anything I can do anymore to revert the roughness? Is there a way to wetsand it?

You should be able to put some thinner on a q-tip and wipe the old paint off or get a jug of Castrol Super Clean from the parts house and put a bit in a small bowl with a seal-able lid.

[Dave G.]

On 12/24/2022 at 12:45 PM, Milo said:

I'm using the small 2 oz testor bottles of paint. Should I thin it in the bottle or pour it in some mixer or something to thin it?

Testors enamels will brush fine thinned about 35% or so with mineral spirits or even hardware store paint thinner or a combo of each. For a hood like that or other broad areas get yourself a soft artists flat brush or a soft filbert brush that are rated for oil and acrylic paints. Only slightly over lap your strokes.

If you get Tamiya acrylic paint thin it with their retarder and butt the strokes together, don't over lap. The paint will flow together.

Small parts need smaller brushes.

[Milo]

On 12/25/2022 at 12:27 PM, Dave G. said:

Testors enamels will brush fine thinned about 35% or so with mineral spirits or even hardware store paint thinner or a combo of each. For a hood like that or other broad areas get yourself a soft artists flat brush or a soft filbert brush that are rated for oil and acrylic paints. Only slightly over lap your strokes.

If you get Tamiya acrylic paint thin it with their retarder and butt the strokes together, don't over lap. The paint will flow together.

Small parts need smaller brushes.

So how do I thin? should I put it in a small bottle along with some thinner from a pipet? 

[Dave G.]

15 hours ago, Milo said:

So how do I thin? should I put it in a small bottle along with some thinner from a pipet? 

I just use an open palette or you can get one of those inexpensive painters palettes with the little pockets around the edge and a center area for mixing. I do the same for initial mixing of my own colors as well. But pipettes are your friend, yes whatever way you choose to go. Some folks like to wet the brush with thinner and then just grab a little paint, it mixes as you go that way. If it's too thin pick up more paint on the brush or on the next pass just wipe a little thinner off the brush before picking up the paint. You have a lot of control this way, lot's of ability to vary the mix. The 35% I mentioned is just a number, if it goes 30 or 40 it's not the end of the world.

I use mixing bottles in advance of airbrushing colors, all cut to ratio etc. That's the case be it enamels or craft paints/acrylics. This could be the day of the shoot or a month in advance.

 

Edited December 28, 2022 by Dave G.

[LL3 Model Worx]

I use glass eyedropper bought a pack of 10 for like $2 on Amazon and I still have 9 left after about 6yrs.

Testors enamels or some of the best brush paints there is in my opinion. I have painted hundreds of miniatures with some of the most high end miniature acrylic paints available and while they are great they have one fatal flaw.

They cannot be altered once dry and drying happens fast!

Enamels dry very slow and can be altered with a little solvent as long as it's not completely cured.

Thin with mineral spirits and keep the brush wet! The brush doesn't have to be some high end Windsor series 7 or nothing... regular ol synthetic brush will work fine, just keep it wet ans make 1 stroke. And if you have to make another pass thin it even more and lay it on even wetter that way it levels and blends to the existing coat.

[Dave G.]

Decent brushes make it easier but I agree 100% they don't have to be high end.  Yesterday ( for art work) I bought a #10 Royal and Langnickel level 1 or student grade if you will, flat brush for working out cloud formations. But that brush would be awesome for larger surfaces on a model. With the 40% discount at Micheals I got the brush for basically $2. That's not a high end Windsor that would probably be more like $10 or even $20. But you can get nice brushes in the sets too, Micheals or Hobby Lobby ( Artists Loft or Masters Touch).  It's more about how you use them anyway ! You just want brushes that are formed decent and don't have bristles shooting off in different directions or stiff as Brillo pads is all. Get just decent brushes, treat them well, they will treat you well.

[Milo]

3 hours ago, Dave G. said:

I just use an open palette or you can get one of those inexpensive painters palettes with the little pockets around the edge and a center area for mixing. I do the same for initial mixing of my own colors as well. But pipettes are your friend, yes whatever way you choose to go. Some folks like to wet the brush with thinner and then just grab a little paint, it mixes as you go that way. If it's too thin pick up more paint on the brush or on the next pass just wipe a little thinner off the brush before picking up the paint. You have a lot of control this way, lot's of ability to vary the mix. The 35% I mentioned is just a number, if it goes 30 or 40 it's not the end of the world.

I use mixing bottles in advance of airbrushing colors, all cut to ratio etc. That's the case be it enamels or craft paints/acrylics. This could be the day of the shoot or a month in advance.

 

I don't really understand the method using the brush, can you explain better?

And, how do I know when my paint is well enough thinned for air brushing? Someone told me that the regular testors paint bottles are good and ready for air brushing.

[Milo]

1 hour ago, LL3 Model Worx said:

I use glass eyedropper bought a pack of 10 for like $2 on Amazon and I still have 9 left after about 6yrs.

Testors enamels or some of the best brush paints there is in my opinion. I have painted hundreds of miniatures with some of the most high end miniature acrylic paints available and while they are great they have one fatal flaw.

They cannot be altered once dry and drying happens fast!

Enamels dry very slow and can be altered with a little solvent as long as it's not completely cured.

Thin with mineral spirits and keep the brush wet! The brush doesn't have to be some high end Windsor series 7 or nothing... regular ol synthetic brush will work fine, just keep it wet ans make 1 stroke. And if you have to make another pass thin it even more and lay it on even wetter that way it levels and blends to the existing coat.

"keeping the brush wet" is this meaning wet with paint, thinner or water?

[Dave G.]

28 minutes ago, Milo said:

I don't really understand the method using the brush, can you explain better?

And, how do I know when my paint is well enough thinned for air brushing? Someone told me that the regular testors paint bottles are good and ready for air brushing.

Ok try this, test it out on some scrap plastic. Get a few drops of your testors paint on some surface, maybe a plastic plate for instance ( we will call that your palette). Now dip your brush in some thinner, you don't need to dip further than the tip. Now pick up some paint with the brush and brush it on to your scrap plastic.  Se how it flows out, if it's too loose and runny then when you dip your brush in the thinner wipe some of the thinner off the brush just on the side of the  cup or what ever you used to put some thinner into.

The other thing you can do is dip the brush in thinner then mix that thinner with some of the paint on your plate/ palette. you an see right there if it's too thin or still thick and add more paint if too thin or thinner if too thick.

Testors enamels spray really well. I thin them with nearly a 1 to 1 ratio of lacquer thinner to paint ( almost equal parts). I get better flow and gloss with lacquer thinner than with mineral spirits. I mean you can see yourself in the finish. So that's 1 part paint to nearly an equal part lacquer thinner. The enamels are not ready to airbrush out of the bottle, someone has that mistaken unless they heat the paint then spray at high pressure, like 50-60 psi. To do that you need both the airbrush and compressor that would keep up with that kind of flow ( by the way this has been done with enamels in real world automobile painting, sometimes adding an oz or so of castor oil, long since past I might add !). Most of us thin the paint someplace between 60/40 paint to thinner or 50/50 paint to thinner. I thin mine just short of 50/50 ( slightly more paint than thinner). I shoot Testors enamels at around 30-35 psi using a .5 or .7 tip. That's for car bodies.  You may notice that I said the same thing twice using what sounds like different ratios, they mean the same thing. 1-1, 1/1 or 50/50 are all the same, equal parts paint to thinner.

[LL3 Model Worx]

57 minutes ago, Milo said:

"keeping the brush wet" is this meaning wet with paint, thinner or water?

Keep it wet with paint. Make sure the belly of the brush can hold enough paint to go from one end of your surface to the other without running out of paint.

[Milo]

38 minutes ago, Dave G. said:

Ok try this, test it out on some scrap plastic. Get a few drops of your testors paint on some surface, maybe a plastic plate for instance ( we will call that your palette). Now dip your brush in some thinner, you don't need to dip further than the tip. Now pick up some paint with the brush and brush it on to your scrap plastic.  Se how it flows out, if it's too loose and runny then when you dip your brush in the thinner wipe some of the thinner off the brush just on the side of the  cup or what ever you used to put some thinner into.

The other thing you can do is dip the brush in thinner then mix that thinner with some of the paint on your plate/ palette. you an see right there if it's too thin or still thick and add more paint if too thin or thinner if too thick.

Testors enamels spray really well. I thin them with nearly a 1 to 1 ratio of lacquer thinner to paint ( almost equal parts). I get better flow and gloss with lacquer thinner than with mineral spirits. I mean you can see yourself in the finish. So that's 1 part paint to nearly an equal part lacquer thinner. The enamels are not ready to airbrush out of the bottle, someone has that mistaken unless they heat the paint then spray at high pressure, like 50-60 psi. To do that you need both the airbrush and compressor that would keep up with that kind of flow ( by the way this has been done with enamels in real world automobile painting, sometimes adding an oz or so of castor oil, long since past I might add !). Most of us thin the paint someplace between 60/40 paint to thinner or 50/50 paint to thinner. I thin mine just short of 50/50 ( slightly more paint than thinner). I shoot Testors enamels at around 30-35 psi using a .5 or .7 tip. That's for car bodies.  You may notice that I said the same thing twice using what sounds like different ratios, they mean the same thing. 1-1, 1/1 or 50/50 are all the same, equal parts paint to thinner.

So when you dip the paintbrush with thinner on it into the paint bottle, how is that not ruining all the paint inside the bottle? I've already done that with my flat black, so I'll need to get a new one.

[LL3 Model Worx]

38 minutes ago, Milo said:

So when you dip the paintbrush with thinner on it into the paint bottle, how is that not ruining all the paint inside the bottle? I've already done that with my flat black, so I'll need to get a new one.

You don't... you put the paint on a pallet of some sort... preferably metal so solvents don't react with plastic.

Put a small amount on a pallet, and then thin and mix, and your all set.

 

[Dave G.]

3 hours ago, Milo said:

So when you dip the paintbrush with thinner on it into the paint bottle, how is that not ruining all the paint inside the bottle? I've already done that with my flat black, so I'll need to get a new one.

Well if you re read my post I believe I said you put some paint on a palette. But that's ok someone else has addressed this. You will catch on soon enough. This is going to make a big difference in your brush painting so hang in there !

Edited December 28, 2022 by Dave G.

[Milo]

Are the bumps a result of bad airbrush or not thinned enough?

It could also be the way I was brushing, I had to hold the airbrush relatively close because it shoots with such low power.

The airbrush was shooting globs of paint, not even spray like it should.

Also, can I wet sand it to improve looks? or should I just give up and have a bumpy car?

Edited December 28, 2022 by Milo