iamsuperdan Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 10 hours ago, Richard Bartrop said: And NASCAR teams have a long tradition of "creative rules interpretation" I think one of the requirements of any racing is to creatively interpret the rules! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Handley Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 15 hours ago, iamsuperdan said: I think one of the requirements of any racing is to creatively interpret the rules! This is very true, I do have to wonder what an innovative crew chief would come up with to make their EV faster and/or run longer, maybe hide extra batteries or some capacitors somewhere in the car that can me activated by a hidden switch, wire resistors into things that may trick the ECU into not seeing as much voltage and sending more battery power to the motor, maybe specially wound motors or more potent magnets that would be hard to tech….. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamsuperdan Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Nah, that would be too obvious, like when the old school guys would hide fuel in the frame. I think we'd see things like lighter weight components, engine parts that "spool" up and rotate more quickly due to lighter weight or whatever. Lots of messing around with the programming. Will be fun to watch the innovation that happens. Time to make some peoples' eyes twitch. Will be fun to watch the hotrodding of the EV racecars, and then see everyday EV drivers hotrod their cars using the same tech. Just like the old days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 (edited) 7 hours ago, iamsuperdan said: ...Will be fun to watch the hotrodding of the EV racecars, and then see everyday EV drivers hotrod their cars using the same tech. Just like the old days. Yeah, right. Modifying street-driven late-model ICE vehicles for performance is pretty much illegal everywhere now...though there a very few wizard tuners who seem to get by somehow... https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/national-enforcement-and-compliance-initiative-stopping-aftermarket-defeat-devices#:~:text=The CAA prohibits tampering with,intended to defeat those controls. Don't think for a minute there won't be similar restrictions on EV mods, in the name of "safety" or whatever other reason they can come up with. (EDIT: like maybe somebody will say performance mods accelerate battery degradation, generate more heat, and require more frequent charging, so have a net negative effect on the environment; that idea alone should get the snail-darter lovers clutching their pearls) And there is, already, a lot of info on what's possible to enhance EV performance. Just google: modifying EVs for performance Edited February 8 by Ace-Garageguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike C Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 On 1/26/2024 at 6:06 PM, Tabbysdaddy said: I've watched some of the electric F1 races. It's like watching an RC race. I used to race RC. But I raced the Nitro cars. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espo Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Without a valid infostructure to support EV's they serve little purpose for use beyond your city limits or hundred miles at best from your home recharging station. Remember you still have to get home so cut your travel distance in half from your home base when considering a trip of any great distance. While there are some recharging facilities out there you are still faced with weather or not, they are functioning, will your vehicle be able to use them, and how long are you going to have to wait in line to use the chargers. Ever wonder why Hurtz has off'd their EV rental fleet? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamsuperdan Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 21 hours ago, espo said: Without a valid infostructure to support EV's they serve little purpose for use beyond your city limits or hundred miles at best from your home recharging station. Remember you still have to get home so cut your travel distance in half from your home base when considering a trip of any great distance. While there are some recharging facilities out there you are still faced with weather or not, they are functioning, will your vehicle be able to use them, and how long are you going to have to wait in line to use the chargers. Ever wonder why Hurtz has off'd their EV rental fleet? What has your opinion on street cars got to do with a potential e-NASCAR series? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 19 minutes ago, iamsuperdan said: What has your opinion on street cars got to do with a potential e-NASCAR series? I believe a point was made somewhere along the line that because "racing improves the breed", NASCAR racing EVs would have a beneficial effect on normie production EVs, so any really really rapid-recharge or battery-swap tech developed in racing might help to mitigate the issues espo mentions...maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 (edited) A little off topic, but I'm much more onboard with hybrids than full plug-in electrics, and could get interested should NASCAR institute a class for those. The hybrids that have run very successfully at LeMans https://www.24h-lemans.com/en/news/24-hours-centenary-hybrid-technology-proves-unbeatable-57226 and the Jag twin-turbine-hybrid C-X75 from way back in 2010 https://www.greencarcongress.com/2010/09/cx75-20100930.html are, to me, the best things to come out of the green movement yet, and represent the leading edge of a more rational way towards a greener-cleaner future for surface transportation...which needs to include hydrogen fuel-cells as well. (Hydrogen isn't scary if you understand the tech, and it doesn't HAVE to be expensive, a "reason" the naysayers dump all over it) The only real downside to hybrid tech is the complexity of having two onboard energy sources, more things to break, etc., and racing in some cases does tend to simplify things, and make them more robust. NASCAR vehicles in general are really pretty simple as racing cars go, and built like tanks, so there's that... Edited February 14 by Ace-Garageguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamsuperdan Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 Hybrid could be interesting for sure, and would be a great stepping stone to get certain factions interested in alternative fuels or drive systems. Maybe. And if it makes stock car racing a little "greener" in some small way, it's all good. Less fuel, reduced emissions, etc. Hydrogen is definitely something that more brands should be looking harder at. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 (edited) 30 minutes ago, iamsuperdan said: Hydrogen is definitely something that more brands should be looking harder at. I have a little (1/24 or so) fully functional model of a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle. It has a solar cell that supplies electricity to crack distilled water into hydrogen and oxygen as it sits in the window. The hydrogen fills a small balloon "fuel tank" that, when attached to the little car, fuels a tiny fuel cell that makes electricity for an electric motor that runs it around the room. All that's required is a some competent and creative "upscaling". Edited February 14 by Ace-Garageguy CLARITY and ACCURACY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Force Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 If you go hydrogen you can leave out the electric motor all together, it's for sure possible to run a combustion engine on hydrogen and the exhaust is mostly water vapour. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 (edited) 3 hours ago, Force said: If you go hydrogen you can leave out the electric motor all together, it's for sure possible to run a combustion engine on hydrogen and the exhaust is mostly water vapour. Which is exactly my personal plan to keep my IC vehicles running if/when "fossil fuel" engines are ever banned entirely...which I don't doubt will happen at some point...assuming I'm still breathing, and assuming some well-meaning but totally ignorant rulemakers don't phrase the ban to include all "combustion engines" (the logic being that oxides of nitrogen are still produced by burning hydrogen in an ICE). Onboard storage of hydrogen is often cited by "experts" as being a deal-breaker. The energy density by weight of liquid hydrogen is about 3 times that of gasoline, but achieving and maintaining the pressures necessary to liquify and store it in normie vehicles is difficult, though advances in adsorptive storage technologies are ongoing. Energy density by volume of liquid hydrogen is probably more to the point, with gasoline beating hydrogen by a factor of about 3.7 (IIRC), which would require a significantly larger tank to achieve the same range in an ICE. Fuel-cell applications are significantly more efficient than ICE applications IIRC, but burning hydrogen in an IC engine at least allows the preservation of hot rods, exotics, and classics in their original forms, with no "harm to the environment". And other "experts" like to cite hydrogen's cost as the deal-breaker, assuming it's going to require energy from the grid to produce it, and hydrocarbon feedstocks to make it from...neither of which is true if existing technologies are implemented efficiently. We can only hope that logic, rationality, and the best possible engineering solutions will ultimately prevail. Edited February 14 by Ace-Garageguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim N Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 To answer the original poster’s question. The article I read stated that this was nothing more than a test. The current Cup race car was designed to accommodate an EV power plant if the NASCAR racing community ever chooses to go in that direction. The article also stated that NASCAR officials watched a race in Japan with hydrogen powered cars as they were guests of Toyota. Toyota appears to be a big proponent of using hydrogen to power cars instead of batteries. Lastly, NASCAR officials in this article clearly stated that they have no intention of moving away from the internal combustion engine for the foreseeable future. Yes, one can argue that the foreseeable future is a relative term; however, team owners at all three levels of NASCAR are struggling with costs. This includes some of the big teams. It will be very expensive to move to this technology, and overnight make all of their drivetrain equipment obsolete. This includes the equipment they use to build and test the drivetrains. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldriginal86 Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 IMHO, NASCAR has turned into a snooze fest as of late with the advent of the new generation of cars. If one would turn the volume down on the tv, would anyone know the difference between gas or electric power. As far as speed goes, can one tell if the cars on tv are going 150mph or 100 or 65? When at the track is a different story, the noise, turbulence and smell can’t be duplicated with an electric motor. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Them batteries Blow Up REAL GOOD! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamsuperdan Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 So do them tanks o' fuel. 🙄 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 At least you can put a fuel fire out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 (edited) Oh and Tesla batteries weigh in excess of 1,800 lb. So maybe a giant slot car track, or an overhead grid like real bumper cars. Edited February 25 by Big John 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoMoCo66 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 On 2/20/2024 at 8:17 PM, Big John said: Them batteries Blow Up REAL GOOD! It's like watching a rc car catch on fire but there's a human in their! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamsuperdan Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 18 hours ago, Big John said: Oh and Tesla batteries weigh in excess of 1,800 lb. . Nissan Leaf - 303 kg (668lb) Mach E battery - 485kg (1070lb) Tesla Model S - 625kg (1377lb) You need an EV truck or SUV to get batteries that "weigh in excess of 1800lb" and that's not what's being discussed here. The tech to go e-racing is very different than the tech in a road going ev. By necessity, an ev racecar will be very different than a road car. Just like how a NASCAR is very different than a road car. And because they don't have to worry about sealed battery packs or waterproofing, then foam extinguishers or chemical extinguishers would work. Maybe if NASCAR had the gonads to drive in the rain like every other race series out there... But I digress. Having said that, Formula E has been around for 10 years and has seen a number of big crashes. Not one fire. In fact, there's only been one fire in Formula E since its inception. Last October, a fire broke out in a garage during pre-season testing. It was in the garage of a battery supplier, that was doing some testing on a charging system. Needless to say, it failed the test. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteski Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 It is nice to see such a lively discussion about this subject. If this tread was shunned then that would indicate no interest or future in electric cars. But there is plenty interest (bot positive and negative views). Carry on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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