How can I fix this, and avoid this blemish in the future?

[Milo]

This is Tamiya fine surface primer white, Tamiya ts53, and finally a mr super clear gloss.

Im really upset with the texture I’ve made, I was expecting to see the perfect mirror finish shown everywhere online. How do I get rid of this, and what caused this?

[Ace-Garageguy]

That's just standard light "orange peel" from the spraying process, probably just a tad on the dry side.

It's actually not that bad a paint job, and your technique will improve with practice over time. 

NOBODY shoots glossy, prefect paint in the beginning. You learn it by doing it over and over and over until you get it right.

And it will color-sand-and-polish out using standard techniques discussed ad infinitum on this very forum.

EDIT: And all over YouTube...

 

Edited January 29, 2024 by Ace-Garageguy
TYPO

[Milo]

  On 1/29/2024 at 1:10 AM, Ace-Garageguy said:

That's just standard light "orange peel" from the spraying process, probably just a tad on the dry side.

It's actually not that bad a paint job, and your technique will improve with practice over time. 

NOBODY shoots glossy, prefect paint in the beginning. You learn it by doing it over and over and over until you get it right.

And it will color-sand-and-polish out using standard techniques discussed ad infinitum on this very forum.

EDIT: And all over YouTube...

 

Expand  

Ok I will try this, thank you.

[Fat Brian]

I agree with Bill on all counts. From an advice standpoint, spraying a tad closer to the body will cause your paint to be a bit wetter when it hits the body which will allow it to flow out better. Another thing that can cause this is primer that's not been wet sanded. I didn't believe it until I tried it for myself but it makes a huge difference. 

[Lunajammer]

That looks like a pretty typical finish I usually get from spray cans, regardless of how wet it gets applied. Sort of a given that follow up sanding and polishing is part of the process. Not my favorite aspect of model building but I accept it as part of the affair.

Pic is not a great paint can job (the green), but it's a reasonable starting point for surface finishing, as is yours.

[StevenGuthmiller]

  On 1/30/2024 at 1:08 AM, Lunajammer said:

That looks like a pretty typical finish I usually get from spray cans, regardless of how wet it gets applied. Sort of a given that follow up sanding and polishing is part of the process. Not my favorite aspect of model building but I accept it as part of the affair.

Pic is not a great paint can job (the green), but it's a reasonable starting point for surface finishing, as is yours.

Expand  

I agree completely with Mike.

You can spend the next 10 or 20 years beating yourself over the head trying to figure out the best materials and techniques to use to get a perfectly smooth and reflective paint job straight from the can or airbrush, which you’ll be lucky to get 10% of the time even if all of the stars are aligned, or you can just accept the fact, as I did many years ago, that some cutting and polishing will correct nearly every paint problem that you might have once you get a system in place.

For me, it was an exceptionally freeing  feeling once I had arrived at this epiphany and realized that I didn’t have to hold my breath and hope for the best as I was getting ready to paint, with my paint stripping solution nearby for the inevitable paint stripping session that was likely to come.

No more incessant sanding of primer, color and clear coats between every coat, and in the end, it became evident to me that a sanded and polished paint job exhibited a more realistic finish than most “shiny right out of the can”  finishes that I see anyway.

In conclusion, If you’re averse to putting forth some manual labor, cutting and polishing is probably not going to be for you, but it will certainly open up a new world of not having to be a professional at laying down paint in order to achieve the same, or even better result than those that can.

I can’t even begin to describe how the revelation that I was able to achieve perfect paint results without being a body man for 40 years has revolutionized my modeling outlook.

 

 

 

 

Steve

[Bainford]

  On 1/30/2024 at 3:14 PM, StevenGuthmiller said:

 

For me, it was an exceptionally freeing  feeling once I had arrived at this epiphany and realized that I didn’t have to hold my breath and hope for the best as I was getting ready to paint, with my paint stripping solution nearby for the inevitable paint stripping session that was likely to come.

Expand  

Yes! This was exactly my experience as well. I was struggling to lay down great paint, but inspired by the work I had seen on the forums, I kept trying. I was experimenting with cutting & polishing too, and as I improved my technique, the light turned on;  I don't have to be able to paint, I just have to be able to polish. From that moment on, my outlook changed. Now when I paint, I do so not with the aim to lay down great paint, but to lay down a paint job that facilitates cutting & polishing. My paint has continued to improve over the years, which makes cutting & polishing easier, but the secret to great paint does lie in the work done after the paint has cured. As Steve says, the epiphany was freeing (great words). These days, I am very happy with my paint.

 

Edited January 31, 2024 by Bainford

[peteski]

I'm just the opposite.  If I had to spend hours polishing out a paint job, I would quit the hobby. I learned to lay down the paint wet and heavy enough that it dries smooth enough for me without any polishing or waxing.

[Ace-Garageguy]

  On 1/30/2024 at 1:08 AM, Lunajammer said:

That looks like a pretty typical finish I usually get from spray cans, regardless of how wet it gets applied. Sort of a given that follow up sanding and polishing is part of the process.

Expand  

 

  On 1/30/2024 at 8:58 PM, peteski said:

I'm just the opposite.  If I had to spend hours polishing out a paint job, I would quit the hobby. I learned to lay down the paint wet and heavy enough that it dries smooth enough for me without any polishing or waxing.

Expand  

I'm somewhere in between, in spite of "being a body man for 40 years".

I have days when I can lay down model paint as slick and pretty as this...

And days when the best results I can get as-sprayed aren't much better than the OP's.

So I agree with Steve.

  On 1/30/2024 at 3:14 PM, StevenGuthmiller said:

...In conclusion, If you’re averse to putting forth some manual labor, cutting and polishing is probably not going to be for you, but it will certainly open up a new world of not having to be a professional at laying down paint in order to achieve the same, or even better result than those that can.

I can’t even begin to describe how the revelation that I was able to achieve perfect paint results without being a body man for 40 years has revolutionized my modeling outlook.

Expand  

Even those of us who can consistently go into the big-car booth and lay down slick paint jobs every time can't always do it on models. The materials are similar but different. The procedures are similar but different. And the things we're painting are different.

But get your prep right and learn to color-sand and polish right, you can turn out world-class paint jobs every time.

[Rodent]

Devil's advocate here: It doesn't look too bad as it is, and I am certain that you will burn through the paint if you try to polish it. My suggestion is to leave it alone until you can get the supplies you need to polish, then practice on spare bodies/hoods/etc. until you get comfortable with the process.

[R. Thorne]

I guess it just depends on how important a shiny paint job is to you.  I strive for accuracy  in the mechanical aspects (engines, chassis, etc., ) of model building.  Paint job shininess, not so much.  I do not sand, buff, etc., though I have experimented with it.  To me, it is just not worth the amount of effort involved.  If the paint job turns out yucky, it goes in the tank, and I will try again.  80 percent of the time, it is good enough for me. I use, mostly Tamiya ts spray cans.   I do, perhaps, obsess on cleanliness, paint temperature, and thorough paint mixing.  In other words, a Tamiya brush for final dusting, warm the can in hot water, and spin the can with my paint can holding fixture in a cordless drill.  Oh, yeah, a final water spray in the paint booth before painting.

[Lunajammer]

At the risk of being contrary to my previous post, Donn Yost certainly figured out how to get a great finish right out of the gate. However I've not seen his videos to see what's involved, how steep the learning curve is or what tools and/or environment are required. I got a great glassy airbrush finish once, but I don't know what I did and have not been able to replicate it.

[peteski]

  On 1/30/2024 at 9:59 PM, Ace-Garageguy said:

I'm somewhere in between, in spite of "being a body man for 40 years".

I have days when I can lay down model paint as slick and pretty as this...

And days when the best results I can get as-sprayed aren't much better than the OP's.

Expand  

Of course not all of my paint-jobs come out perfect, but I just never polish or wax. My first models were brush-painted using Testors PLA enamels in the little glass bottles.

[StevenGuthmiller]

  On 1/30/2024 at 8:58 PM, peteski said:

I'm just the opposite.  If I had to spend hours polishing out a paint job, I would quit the hobby. I learned to lay down the paint wet and heavy enough that it dries smooth enough for me without any polishing or waxing.

Expand  

To each his own I suppose.

Learning to do a simple and basic cut and polish just strikes me to be a much less difficult and technical, although possibly more time consuming, way to reach the exact same goal, especially for the less advanced modelers among us.

Call it a short cut, or maybe not, but a quick lesson on how to cut and polish is light years easier and far less intimidating than telling a novice just to “paint it good”.

My only point in this discussion was that once you understand that you never have to worry about how your paint job turns out because you know that you can fix it with some elbow grease, it becomes a huge weight off of you.

When I head to the paint booth, it’s just another day in the neighborhood, because I never have to freak out about a little debris, or a little unforeseen orange peel.

Doesn’t worry me in the least, and I’m still able to put forth just as nice of a paint job, or better than, almost anybody else out there.

It’s just a different avenue for reaching the same goal that pretty much anybody can handle.

 

 

 

 

Steve

[peteski]

  On 1/31/2024 at 2:08 AM, StevenGuthmiller said:

Learning to do a simple and basic cut and polish just strikes me to be a much less difficult and technical, although possibly more time consuming, way to reach the exact same goal, especially for the less advanced modelers among us.

Expand  

You hit the nail on the head:  The time consuming part is what I avoid. To me that is a waste of time, in the same category as restoring glue-bombs.  I'm also quite happy with my unpolished and unwaxed paint jobs.  I rather spend my time on other aspects of model building.  Since the my first model kit I built as a kid, to where I am now, I have never polished or waxed a model.  Well, I take it back. One time I had a piece of debris stuck in paint of a trunk lid, and I sanded and polished it.  No waxing.

I'm not saying Call it a short cut, or maybe not, but a quick lesson on how to cut and polish is light years easier and far less intimidating than telling a novice just to “paint it good”.  All I'm saying is that it is possible to get from mediocre to quite good without the need to rub, polish and wax.  That is based on my experience. One just hast to gain the experience over time. And it will not always be perfect either, even when one learns to lay down good paint jobs.

Like you mentioned, to each his own.

[Milo]

  On 1/31/2024 at 1:49 AM, Lunajammer said:

At the risk of being contrary to my previous post, Donn Yost certainly figured out how to get a great finish right out of the gate. However I've not seen his videos to see what's involved, how steep the learning curve is or what tools and/or environment are required. I got a great glassy airbrush finish once, but I don't know what I did and have not been able to replicate it.

Expand  

The thing is, he uses enamel...

[Milo]

  On 1/31/2024 at 2:08 AM, StevenGuthmiller said:

To each his own I suppose.

Learning to do a simple and basic cut and polish just strikes me to be a much less difficult and technical, although possibly more time consuming, way to reach the exact same goal, especially for the less advanced modelers among us.

Call it a short cut, or maybe not, but a quick lesson on how to cut and polish is light years easier and far less intimidating than telling a novice just to “paint it good”.

My only point in this discussion was that once you understand that you never have to worry about how your paint job turns out because you know that you can fix it with some elbow grease, it becomes a huge weight off of you.

When I head to the paint booth, it’s just another day in the neighborhood, because I never have to freak out about a little debris, or a little unforeseen orange peel.

Doesn’t worry me in the least, and I’m still able to put forth just as nice of a paint job, or better than, almost anybody else out there.

It’s just a different avenue for reaching the same goal that pretty much anybody can handle.

 

 

 

 

Steve

Expand  

I truly admire your work, and certainly I am one for realism, which for me most importantly is the perfect body job. 

I'm totally down for the time of polishing, and honestly it sounds worth it (possibly fun too). So I'm wondering what you use for your wet sanding and polishing?

  On 1/30/2024 at 5:00 PM, Bainford said:

Yes! This was exactly my experience as well. I was struggling to lay down great paint, but inspired by the work I had seen on the forums, I kept trying. I was experimenting with cutting & polishing too, and as I improved my technique, the light turned on;  I don't have to be able to paint, I just have to be able to polish. From that moment on, my outlook changed. Now when I paint, I do so not with the aim to lay down great paint, but to lay down a paint job that facilitates cutting & polishing. My paint has continued to improve over the years, which makes cutting & polishing easier, but the secret to great paint does lie in the work done after the paint has cured. As Steve says, the epiphany was freeing (great words). These days, I am very happy with my paint.

 

Expand  

The same goes for you Trevor, I would like to know what you use to polish.

 

Also, do either of you use any kind of wax or anything after polishing?

[Pierre Rivard]

This conversation is a perfect example of how we can learn form each other and that there can be different ways of getting things done. My challenge is that building in the dead of winter in a condo means that spraying is not an option. I brush paint everything but I am fanatical about surface preparation and fine sanding between layers, and of course polishing the clear layer is a must for me considering my constraints. Lots of time involved but otherwise I could not stay in the hobby.

 

[StevenGuthmiller]

  On 1/31/2024 at 2:48 AM, peteski said:

You hit the nail on the head:  The time consuming part is what I avoid. To me that is a waste of time, in the same category as restoring glue-bombs.  I'm also quite happy with my unpolished and unwaxed paint jobs.  I rather spend my time on other aspects of model building.  Since the my first model kit I built as a kid, to where I am now, I have never polished or waxed a model.  Well, I take it back. One time I had a piece of debris stuck in paint of a trunk lid, and I sanded and polished it.  No waxing.

I'm not saying Call it a short cut, or maybe not, but a quick lesson on how to cut and polish is light years easier and far less intimidating than telling a novice just to “paint it good”.  All I'm saying is that it is possible to get from mediocre to quite good without the need to rub, polish and wax.  That is based on my experience. One just hast to gain the experience over time. And it will not always be perfect either, even when one learns to lay down good paint jobs.

Like you mentioned, to each his own.

Expand  

Time is of no consequence to me when I’m building.

I’m absorbed in the process, and don’t care in the least how long a project takes me, or when it will be finished.

I often feel like the time question is part of the problem with many builders.

They appear to be much more interested in quantity than quality, and very often their work will reflect that.

 

 

 

 

Steve

[StevenGuthmiller]

  On 1/31/2024 at 3:28 AM, Milo said:

I truly admire your work, and certainly I am one for realism, which for me most importantly is the perfect body job. 

I'm totally down for the time of polishing, and honestly it sounds worth it (possibly fun too). So I'm wondering what you use for your wet sanding and polishing?

The same goes for you Trevor, I would like to know what you use to polish.

 

Also, do either of you use any kind of wax or anything after polishing?

Expand  

The first thing tot take into consideration when sanding and polishing is the thickness of your clear coats.

I always recommend clear coating when polishing for various reasons, and the thicker your clear coats, the less likely you are to burn through the clear when sanding.

How much clear you need is entirely dependent on the type of paint you’re using.

Other than that, it’s just a basic process of starting with as fine a grit as possible to remove any blemishes or orange peel, and then continuing with each successive grit down to the finest.

I use Micro-Mesh pads, usually beginning at 3600 or 4000, and work my way down to 12000.

Once finished with the sanding, I’ll use  Novus #2, (fine scratch remover) followed by some automotive scratch and swirl remover, (such as Turtle Wax) to polish to a high shine.

To be perfectly honest, I’m probably spending little more time achieving a perfect finish than those that sand between every coat of primer and color.

I’m just exerting that effort all at once at the end of paint application rather than sporadically throughout the process.

If I had to guess, I’d say that I might spend a total 6-8 hours cutting and polishing a model.

Something that can absolutely be achieved in a weekend.

 

 

 

 

Steve

[StevenGuthmiller]

  On 1/31/2024 at 1:26 PM, Pierre Rivard said:

This conversation is a perfect example of how we can learn form each other and that there can be different ways of getting things done. My challenge is that building in the dead of winter in a condo means that spraying is not an option. I brush paint everything but I am fanatical about surface preparation and fine sanding between layers, and of course polishing the clear layer is a must for me considering my constraints. Lots of time involved but otherwise I could not stay in the hobby.

 

Expand  

Perfect example of how you don’t need to be able to lay down a perfect paint job to end up with one.

As I had stated in a previous post, it’s a very freeing thing when you discover that you don’t have to be an ace at everything to be able to produce show quality results.

 

 

 

Steve

[peteski]

  On 1/31/2024 at 6:29 PM, StevenGuthmiller said:

Time is of no consequence to me when I’m building.

I’m absorbed in the process, and don’t care in the least how long a project takes me, or when it will be finished.

I often feel like the time question is part of the problem with many builders.

They appear to be much more interested in quantity than quality, and very often their work will reflect that.

Expand  

You don't understand.  I have spend close to a year on some of my builds.  It is about time management.  To me it is a waste of time to sand. rub, polish, or wax a paint job.  It would be waste of time trying to rescue a glue  bomb. I just dislike those tasks, and find them unnecessary. I rather use that time I save on not doing those things for building another model.

My paint jobs will not be like yours, and I'm ok with that. But on the other hand, would you be able to design and build an electronic circuits to illuminate your model?  Not just a a simple LED/resistor light, but a complex electronic circuit?  Our modeling goals are quite different, but yet we both enjoy our hobby. After all, we build models for our own pleasure and satisfaction. I doubt that you'll ever understand me, but I'm ok with that. 

For a selection of my models you can visit http://classicplastic.org/pete-w.html  . I remember that you do not generally click on links to any external contents, but if you do want to see some examples of my models, click on the link.

Edited January 31, 2024 by peteski

[StevenGuthmiller]

  On 1/31/2024 at 7:15 PM, peteski said:

You don't understand.  I have spend close to a year on some of my builds.  It is about time management.  To me it is a waste of time to sand. rub, polish, or wax a paint job.  It would be waste of time trying to rescue a glue  bomb. I just dislike those tasks, and find them unnecessary. I rather use that time I save on not doing those things for building another model.

My paint jobs will not be like yours, and I'm ok with that. But on the other hand, would you be able to design and build an electronic circuits to illuminate your model?  Not just a a simple LED/resistor light, but a complex electronic circuit?  Our modeling goals are quite different, but yet we both enjoy our hobby. After all, we build models for our own pleasure and satisfaction. I doubt that you'll ever understand me, but I'm ok with that. 

For a selection of my models you can visit http://classicplastic.org/pete-w.html  . I remember that you do not generally click on links to any external contents, but if you do want to see some examples of my models, click on the link.

Expand  

I absolutely understand, and my remark about “time” was not directed at you personally.

It was just meant as a general observation.

I spend some time on a number of Facebook groups and the prevailing attitude seems to be more often than not, “get em done fast” rather than “get em done well”.

It makes absolutely no difference to me at all how you do your paint jobs.

The only thing I’m considering is that to a new modeler, such as the OP, having someone tell them that they may have to just suck it up and spend the next 10 or 15 years trying to figure out how to lay down a perfect, blemish free paint job is like telling them to go pour a new cement driveway or complete the drywall in their home with no background or experience.

I’m just offering a meaningful alternative to someone who might not have the ability to just knock em out of the park without the experience required.

As far as time goes, there are those that would consider building models in general a waste of time.

I consider some things a waste of time, and you consider some things a waste of time, but what’s important is to offer your ideas and my ideas to the OP and let him decide what’s a waste of his time.

 

 

 

Steve

 

[Milo]

  On 1/31/2024 at 1:26 PM, Pierre Rivard said:

This conversation is a perfect example of how we can learn form each other and that there can be different ways of getting things done. My challenge is that building in the dead of winter in a condo means that spraying is not an option. I brush paint everything but I am fanatical about surface preparation and fine sanding between layers, and of course polishing the clear layer is a must for me considering my constraints. Lots of time involved but otherwise I could not stay in the hobby.

 

Expand  

PERFECT. I have kinda been looking for this solution for a little while. Before I invested in sprays, I wanted to know if there was a way to brush paint. Maybe you could make a tutorial?

[Milo]

  On 1/31/2024 at 7:02 PM, StevenGuthmiller said:

The first thing tot take into consideration when sanding and polishing is the thickness of your clear coats.

I always recommend clear coating when polishing for various reasons, and the thicker your clear coats, the less likely you are to burn through the clear when sanding.

How much clear you need is entirely dependent on the type of paint you’re using.

Other than that, it’s just a basic process of starting with as fine a grit as possible to remove any blemishes or orange peel, and then continuing with each successive grit down to the finest.

I use Micro-Mesh pads, usually beginning at 3600 or 4000, and work my way down to 12000.

Once finished with the sanding, I’ll use  Novus #2, (fine scratch remover) followed by some automotive scratch and swirl remover, (such as Turtle Wax) to polish to a high shine.

To be perfectly honest, I’m probably spending little more time achieving a perfect finish than those that sand between every coat of primer and color.

I’m just exerting that effort all at once at the end of paint application rather than sporadically throughout the process.

If I had to guess, I’d say that I might spend a total 6-8 hours cutting and polishing a model.

Something that can absolutely be achieved in a weekend.

 

 

 

 

Steve

Expand  

Are these cut and polishes nonspecific to the clear coat paint type laid down?