Real hot-rodding is alive and well...

[Ace-Garageguy]

By "real hot-rodding", I mean the way it used to was. Not building cars by throwing money at catalogs and shops, but dirty-hands guys making existing stuff better by engineering and making their own parts...and even engines. American backyard ingenuity is far from dead, and at a pretty high level of sophistication to boot. These are a few of today's men like Stu Hilborn, Ted Halibrand, Ed Iskenderian, Mickey Thompson, et al.

For the haters...remember that these things are works-in-progress, experimental, still in the prototype/development stage...kinda like the rough cars that ran on the dry lakes and early drag strips, and went faster than all the armchair experts said was possible.

EDIT: ...just like the YT comment section is full of people who've never built anything not getting it, finding fault, and telling him he's doing it wrong.

 

 

Edited January 30, 2024 by Ace-Garageguy

[Mike 1017]

Some people just don't get the evolution of things. Self-driving electric cars, 11,000 hp Nitro cars and computer-controlled engines So on and So on. My interest in all things cars dates back to the 1960's. I Luv the modern innovations but also respect the Model T

I don't have the skills to build an old school Hot Rod or restore a Boss 302 Mustang. I don't see anything wrong with paying some else to build my dream car.

Looking forward to your great comments as always.

Mike

[Ace-Garageguy]

4 hours ago, Mike 1017 said:

I don't see anything wrong with paying some else to build my dream car...

I don't recall saying there was anything "wrong" with paying someone to do what you can't.

That's how I've made my living most of my working life...people paying me to build things they can't.

But the hot-rod movement began with guys doing stuff for themselves, and the ones who were really really good at it, guys like the names I listed above, changed the world and created an entire new industry.

Far as the video goes, neither IC/electric hybrids or rotary engines are new. But IF the power figures claimed for the little rotary (NOT a Wankel, by the way, but a further development of the concept) are legit, it has the potential to be a game-changer if used to drive a "sustainer" charger in a hybrid that could conceivably be lighter and easier on the environment (from a mining and rare-earth element and battery-recycling standpoint) than a full plug-in EV. EDIT 2: The little rotary has the potential to be smaller and lighter than the typical piston engine we see in hybrids. Yes, "experts", we all know Wankels haven't been the epitome of fuel efficiency in the past, but the jury is WAY out on this new rotary, and the basic concept is very efficient from the standpoint of power produced for its size and weight.

Jag did something along those lines with its C-X75 hybrid that used tiny turbines to drive a sustainer charger in a car that had a relatively light battery pack. The performance was staggering and the range was good. But the program cost many millions of dollars and the cars would have cost between 3/4 and 2 mil had they ever been produced.

The guys in the video are trying to achieve similar performance...but relatively cheap.

And that is the essence of "real" hot-rodding.

EDIT: Apparently some folks are offended by some of this or find it funny. I really don't understand, and I probably never will.

EDIT 3: Here's a little lesson in hot-rodding history. Neither IC engines nor supercharging were new concepts when Barney Navarro took a junkyard surplus GMC supercharger made for a WWII landing craft diesel engine, modified it, bolted it to his flathead, and started setting speed records on the dry lakes. The rest, as they say...

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/barney-navarro

Edited January 30, 2024 by Ace-Garageguy

[Rocking Rodney Rat]

It lives here: https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/ -RRR

[Ace-Garageguy]

55 minutes ago, Rocking Rodney Rat said:

It lives here: https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/ -RRR

True to an extent, but those guys (I'm a member there too) are living in the past.

Don't get me wrong...that particular past is where I like to spend a lot of time too.

But to me, the true spirit of hot-rodding is innovation, and continuing to build cars like they were built decades ago, while I dearly love it, doesn't have much to do with innovation.

The guys in the vid are doing things most of today's manufacturers don't want to do, or just can't because of a wide variety of possible factors.

Innovation using current hardware, but in the spirit of the groundbreaking hot-rodders way back when is what I'm referring to here. 

I'm not arguing. I'm clarifying the point I'm trying to make. 

[milo1303s]

Dictionary

Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more

 

 

 

 

 

hot rod·der

/ˈhätˌrädər/

noun

 

1. a person who drives a motor vehicle that has been specially modified to give it extra power or speed.

[Rocking Rodney Rat]

12 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

I'm not arguing. I'm clarifying the point I'm trying to make.

I'm not trying to argue either, but the definition of a hot rod as defined by the rodfathers is an American made automobile manufactured before 1949 modified...etc...

I think a new term for what you are showing is needed, it may be innovative and cool but it's not a 'hot rod'. My $.02 and worth both pennies. 

Over to you! 

-RRR

[Rob Hall]

1 hour ago, Rocking Rodney Rat said:

I'm not trying to argue either, but the definition of a hot rod as defined by the rodfathers is an American made automobile manufactured before 1949 modified...etc...

I think a new term for what you are showing is needed, it may be innovative and cool but it's not a 'hot rod'. My $.02 and worth both pennies. 

Over to you! 

-RRR

It's kind of limiting to be stuck to those old time definitions...1948 is over 75 years ago.     I get it, the diesel Tesla is an example of modern 'hot rodding', i.e. modifying a car in a non-stock manner.  A while back, I watched a good series of YouTube videos from Rich Rebuilds where they put an LS into a Tesla Model S... a lot of work and fabrication went into it... the results were interesting.  

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

4 hours ago, Rocking Rodney Rat said:

I'm not trying to argue either, but the definition of a hot rod as defined by the rodfathers is an American made automobile manufactured before 1949 modified...etc...

I think a new term for what you are showing is needed, it may be innovative and cool but it's not a 'hot rod'. My $.02 and worth both pennies. 

Over to you! 

Somehow, whenever I've referred to something as a "hot-rod Porsche", for example, or referring to something like a Hellcat or early AMG Merc as a "factory hot-rod", there's never seemed to be any lack of comprehension as to what I meant, nor any objection.

Of course, I must not have been in the presence of a member of the Rodfathers definition police.

I'll probably continue to use the term generally, meaning "innovation, modification, or performance enhancement regarding an automobile by an individual or business entity, including but not limited to factory-built promotional or demonstration vehicles" until there's a torch-bearing mob on my lawn shouting "burn the heretic".

Might always makes right...right?   

Edited January 31, 2024 by Ace-Garageguy

[BlackSheep214]

50 years from now, nobody is going to be excited to find an EV in a barn find....

ROFLMAO !

[stitchdup]

50 years from now people will be happy to find a barn, lol

Edited January 31, 2024 by stitchdup

[Bainford]

20 minutes ago, BlackSheep214 said:

50 years from now, nobody is going to be excited to find an EV in a barn find....

ROFLMAO !

I would say that 50 years from now nobody is going to get excited to find a Model A in a barn.

There will be no shortage of people excited to see a vintage EV in a barn. Fifty years from now the EV may still be relevant, and people who like vintage things (most of us here can sympathize, I'm sure) will be searching for and collecting them. An old ICE powered hulk won't mean anything to them.

[Tabbysdaddy]

Cool thread. Maybe next someone can post a "Show us your rat rod" thread so half the people can say "that's not a rat rod". It's not old enough, not ratty enough, not whatever enough. Then we can break out the dictionary again. 

[Ace-Garageguy]

2 hours ago, Bainford said:

I would say that 50 years from now nobody is going to get excited to find a Model A in a barn.

There will be no shortage of people excited to see a vintage EV in a barn. Fifty years from now the EV may still be relevant, and people who like vintage things (most of us here can sympathize, I'm sure) will be searching for and collecting them. An old ICE powered hulk won't mean anything to them.

I would tend to disagree, just on citing precedent.

While there aren't a whole lot of people who get excited and pour tons of effort and money into these old beasts, there are still enough of 'em on the planet to keep this era of mechanical history alive. And they're always crowd-pleasers.

50+ year-old EV battery packs will be absolutely and totally useless, virtually impossible to restore to operational condition. Much of the electronics will have degraded terminally as well (ALL the electronics in my '89 GMC truck have already failed permanently, and replacements, if they're even available, are usually equally useless offshore junk)...and if vehicles built in the last 50 years are anything to go by, much of the plastic will have turned unusably brittle, or to dust and chunks.

Antique EV vehicles themselves could conceivably be made operational with significant amounts of retrofit engineering, but mildly modified spark-ignition IC engines will run quite happily on high-proof moonshine, propane, nat gas, or hydrogen, while steam engines already often run on oil, and used vegetable-based waste oil can work just dandy in steam engines or diesels.

Edited January 31, 2024 by Ace-Garageguy
ADDITIONAL INFORMATION

[Tabbysdaddy]

36 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

but IC engines will run quite happily on high-proof moonshine, 

That reminded me of this, the first 30 or so seconds:

 

[Bainford]

I hope you're right. The example of the big steam equipment is a good one. Always interesting as a spectacle of antiquity, and it's reasonable to assume an old Model A will carry a similar degree of awe. I do expect the demographic will be rather small and truly niche. Generally speaking, the pendulum of interest is swinging away from mechanical interests, but then, that only means that it will swing back some day, and there will be enthusiast groups playing with old mechanical things again. I do think, though, that by then they will be primarily museum pieces.

My comments about EVs were actually tongue-in-cheek, as I really don't think they will be around as the transport of choice in 50 years. However, if they are, an obsolete battery pack won't be an issue. In 50 years time, if EVs are still relevant, there will be a lot of potential solutions to enthusiasts for such obsolescence. They will come up with something.

[Ace-Garageguy]

23 minutes ago, Bainford said:

My comments about EVs were actually tongue-in-cheek, as I really don't think they will be around as the transport of choice in 50 years. However, if they are, an obsolete battery pack won't be an issue. In 50 years time, if EVs are still relevant, there will be a lot of potential solutions to enthusiasts for such obsolescence. They will come up with something.

Yup. Like maybe a hydrogen-fired diesel driving a generator in the frunk as a maintainer to run wheel-motors at cruising speeds, and big capacitors for the occasional burst of acceleration.

Like I said..."significant retrofit engineering"...kinda like hot-rodding.   

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/tech/what-is-supercapacitor-battery-ev-and-hybrid/

https://newsroom.unsw.edu.au/news/science-tech/new-system-retrofits-diesel-engines-run-90-cent-hydrogen

Edited January 31, 2024 by Ace-Garageguy
CLARITY

[Tabbysdaddy]

I sure can't wait until I can transport to my destination via "The Fly" pod.

[BlackSheep214]

3 hours ago, Bainford said:

I would say that 50 years from now nobody is going to get excited to find a Model A in a barn.

Wanna bet? LOL!

[Rocking Rodney Rat]

5 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

I'll probably continue to use the term generally, meaning "innovation, modification, or performance enhancement regarding an automobile by an individual or business entity, including but not limited to factory-built promotional or demonstration vehicles" until there's a torch-bearing mob on my lawn shouting "burn the heretic".

 

Call it whatever you want, but calling a sheep's tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.  -RRR

[Ace-Garageguy]

1 hour ago, Rocking Rodney Rat said:

Call it whatever you want, but calling a sheep's tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.  -RRR

Even dictionaries sometimes disagree on exact definitions, and there are often multiple similar usages cited. Then there's the ongoing disagreements about the terms "rat rod", "muscle car", "lakes pipes", etc. 

My definition of the term "hot rodding" in a contemporary context makes perfectly rational sense, so I'll stick with it.

The definition you cite would be more accurate if it was "traditional hot rod", but there's disagreement over that term too.

But it's apparent I'll never convince you that my definition is acceptable, nor will you ever convince me that the Rodfathers definition is the be-all-end-all-of-the-entire-universe-period-end-of-discussion-I'm-taking-my-toys-and-going-home.

So we'll just have to agree to disagree. 

Works for me.   

Edited January 31, 2024 by Ace-Garageguy

[NOBLNG]

6 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Antique EV vehicles themselves could conceivably be made operational with significant amounts of retrofit engineering, 

 

5 hours ago, Tabbysdaddy said:

That reminded me of this, the first 30 or so seconds:

Funny,…as I was reading Bills post, I was thinking that you wil probably be able to order a “Mr. Fusion” retro-fit kit from Amazon.?

Edited January 31, 2024 by NOBLNG

[Ace-Garageguy]

35 minutes ago, NOBLNG said:

...you wil probably be able to order a “Mr. Fusion” retro-fit kit from Amazon.?

Probably true...but I'm not so hot on the idea of depending on a fusion reactor coming from an "offshore" manufacturing base that often seems hard pressed to deliver a radiator or wheel bearing or brake pads that actually fit and function in any reliable way. 

Faw down go boom  (and before I get another strike for making fun of Asians' speech...IT'S BABY TALK).

Edited January 31, 2024 by Ace-Garageguy

[Rocking Rodney Rat]

4 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

So we'll just have to agree to disagree. 

Agreed....now I'm heading to the bench to work on some more scale hot rods...-RRR

[deuces wild]

On 1/30/2024 at 5:15 PM, Rocking Rodney Rat said:

It lives here: https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/ -RRR

Yep! I've been a member since????.... '09 I think...?