Boeing's 737 problems continue...

[Ace-Garageguy]

...due to rushing to production, and an effort to shortcut the cost of certification of an aircraft that's substantially different from the earlier 737.

Notice the contradiction in BOEING'S OWN OPERATING INSTRUCTIONS Mr. Browne addresses starting around 6:20 in the video.

 

 

[Jim N]

Boeing wrote the book on how NOT to build an airplane.  How they come back from this is beyond me.

[stitchdup]

10 hours ago, Jim N said:

Boeing wrote the book on how NOT to build an airplane.  How they come back from this is beyond me.

start building submarines, at least then when they sink they can say it half worked

[Mark]

They'd probably put screen doors on a sub...

[bobss396]

That is quite a crutch for a critical issue. Boeing has had other work-arounds for serious flaws in the past. Which were correctly resolved.

[Chuck Most]

I love how the "If it ain't Boeing I ain't going" types are eating crow. It's weird to me how people who will never own their own jet liner have brand loyalty in the first place but apparently it's a thing. I've noticed that car people are certainly weird but aircraft people are on a whole 'nother level.

Anyway ... it's not like Boeing doing shady stuff is anything new. Right around the time Boeing merged with Douglas they just became Douglas, but somehow worse.  

Or maybe I'm wrong... Before that happened there was a problem with the PCU in the 737. The PCU being an actuator that controls the rudder. In certain situations the PCU could jam in such a way that a left input on the stick would actually cause the plane to turn right. Obviously a problem, and could make any number of high pressure situations worse for the flight crew. Boeing did not build the PCU, a supplier did, and apparently they were aware of the problem. Boeing was aware too, but they conveniently forgot about it until it had caused two fatal crashes and one that came very close.

[stitchdup]

7 hours ago, Chuck Most said:

 Boeing was aware too, but they conveniently forgot about it until it had caused two fatal crashes and one that came very close.

boeing, our thoughts and prayers hold the plane together

[Chuck Most]

4 hours ago, stitchdup said:

boeing, our thoughts and prayers hold the plane together

Like I said, the Douglas way. ? They knew the DC-10 cargo door didn't like to latch but nothing really came from that until that defect actually killed people. Boeing seems to be copying from their playbook.

[Chuck Most]

Saw this today and it reminded me of this thread ... ?

[bobss396]

Then there was the de Havilland Comet...

https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/neither-money-nor-manpower-the-story-of-the-de-havilland-comet-and-the-crash-of-boac-flight-781-36db2a3435ce

[Ace-Garageguy]

And the Lockheed Electra...

https://medium.com/propliners/lockheed-electra-part-3-dfb2c21a007c

[Brutalform]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/engine-cowling-falls-off-boeing-plane-southwest-airlines-flight-denver-houston/
 

These occurrences are becoming too frequent. 

[bobss396]

7 hours ago, Brutalform said:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/engine-cowling-falls-off-boeing-plane-southwest-airlines-flight-denver-houston/
 

These occurrences are becoming too frequent. 

Either by design of the news is grabbing any occurrence that comes along. Likely this has been going on for a long time and suddenly has become "news-worthy".

[Matt Bacon]

This one sounds like someone forgot to latch the cowling shut properly. What I’d like to know is what are SouthWest’s procedures for pre-flight walkarounds? I’ve watch the Jet2 Captain or Co-pilot check their 737s from the lounge window at Leeds often enough, and they check all the opening hatches they can reach by giving them a good shake, including the cowling panels… as well as checking all the air data probes, sticking their heads in the wheel bays, and taking a good look up the jet pipes…

beat,

M.

[Ace-Garageguy]

3 hours ago, bobss396 said:

Either by design of the news is grabbing any occurrence that comes along. Likely this has been going on for a long time and suddenly has become "news-worthy".

Rest assured, an airliner losing an engine cowling in flight would have been "news-worthy" any time in the past.

HOWEVER...what the idiot, ignorant media IS doing is beating the "Boeing bad !!!" drum. Poor maintenance procedures on the part of distracted or incompetent ground personnel have zero to do with the aircraft manufacturer.

Aviation incidents are indeed becoming more common.

Another airliner missed an ILS landing approach just a few days back, and almost hit the control tower at the airport where it was attempting to land.

Investigations are ongoing as to whether it was equipment failure (the ILS...instrument landing system) or human error.

 

Edited April 8, 2024 by Ace-Garageguy
CLARITY

[Ace-Garageguy]

1 hour ago, Matt Bacon said:

This one sounds like someone forgot to latch the cowling shut properly. What I’d like to know is what are SouthWest’s procedures for pre-flight walkarounds?

Same as any other carrier. And I've flown Southwest for decades without a minute's hesitation. 

But you simply can't reach all the engine cowling panels from the ground without a ladder, and climbing around airliners on ladders isn't part of a pilot's pre-flight.

Nor can you always tell by looking if quarter-turn latching fasteners or retainer screws are properly engaged.

A pilot has to be able to trust the ground crew to be putting panels back on correctly (or noting any panel-fastener defects), just like he has to be able to trust the workers who build the things to put all the bolts in.

Just for some perspective, the rear body panel on Mark Donohue's Porsche 917 opened up at 180MPH here at Road Atlanta in a testing session back in 1972, rendering it uncontrollable. It subsequently left the ground, flipped over on its back, and was destroyed in the resulting crash...all because a body mount fastener wasn't properly secured. (Donohue, by the way, walked away from that one because the car was engineered so well.)

EDIT: The point is that even though Donohue was an engineer himself and the ultimate professional development driver, and Roger Penske's car prep was probably the most meticulous on the planet, somebody didn't catch a loose panel latch before the car went on the course.

But in that case, Donohue was the only one whose life was at risk.

Airliners flying at over 500 MPH with hundreds of souls on board are orders of magnitude more critical as far as mechanical double-checks go.

 

Edited April 8, 2024 by Ace-Garageguy

[stavanzer]

3 hours ago, bobss396 said:

Likely this has been going on for a long time and suddenly has become "news-worthy".

I think this explains some of it. But, not all.

[bobss396]

1 hour ago, stavanzer said:

I think this explains some of it. But, not all.

All I know is that i missed buying tanked Boeing stock when it was in the toilet .

[stavanzer]

Don't Worry Bob, it will tank again.

[89AKurt]

It was just yesterday that I flew back from Bellingham WA, on Southwest no less, got my Will done before flying up.  I hate flying, the only part I like is looking out the window.

[Ace-Garageguy]

20 minutes ago, 89AKurt said:

...I hate flying, the only part I like is looking out the window...

Edited April 9, 2024 by Ace-Garageguy

[bobss396]

7 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Best TZ ever... there is something on the wing....

[Chuck Most]

All I'm going to say is...

Hey ... Lockheed? Might be an opportunity to get back into the airliner business. Jeez, tap into the retro zeitgeist and make a new L-1011.

[peteski]

On 4/9/2024 at 8:17 AM, Chuck Most said:

All I'm going to say is...

Hey ... Lockheed? Might be an opportunity to get back into the airliner business. Jeez, tap into the retro zeitgeist and make a new L-1011.

I think this idea will never fly.