Jonathan Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 Hello All. Looking to build a model of my friend's Mustang from when we were (much) younger. He always referred to it as a "64 and a half" model. I'm aware of the old 1/16 scale AMT kit, but would like to build something in the more common 1/25 or 1/24 scale. Thoughts on how to best approach this? From some of what I've read, the differences between the early 1965's (aka 64 1/2) and other 1965 models are really just minor details that might not be noticed in scale. This is not his, but it looked a lot like it, if memory serves. Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Cobra Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 some of the differences are passenger seat is non-adjustable, carpet only cover bottom of floors, inside of rockers that carpet normally covers is covered in vinyl, the front of hood above the little vents beside the headlights isn't rolled under like later hoods. it sticks down about 3/8" of so. I'm sure there are other little details i've forgotten. Also most cars won't have all the 64.5 details, the later in production as they ran out of parts, 65 parts were used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 (edited) IIRC, the earliest cars also had generators as opposed to alternators...but I could be wrong. EDIT: Yup. Quick research indicates the 64.5 cars built through July or August of 1964 had generators, then all later cars got alternators. EDIT 2: More differences... https://www.motortrend.com/news/mustang-1964/ Edited March 28 by Ace-Garageguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Thorne Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 My sister had one of the first 1964.5 Mustangs in our area. Boy, everybody stopped what they were doing to gawk at that car. It is on my list to build and I am using this kit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1972coronet Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 One of the most obvious items which make a "64 1/2" stand out is the lack of 'reverse' lamps. Those weren't mandated until 01/01/1965 (e.g., some early-production 1965 cars didn't 'reverse' lamps -- Landy's 1965 Coronet S/S -come- AWB has one tail lamp with the 'reverse' lamp, and the other one without. That was done out of necessity ; but that's another story). IIRC, the 260 V8 was the only (standard ?) V8 . Perhaps all high-perf iterations were actually 289 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Posted March 28 Author Share Posted March 28 Thank you all. @R. Thorne - that was the same kit I just picked up to start with. @1972coronet - I didn't know about the reverse lamps - that's interesting! @Ace-Garageguy - great article - thank you for that! @Dr Cobra - thank you, those small details are so cool. --- Is the 1965 Grill readily available in kit or aftermarket form? This is the '65, and includes the vertical bars, and the "mesh" behind the grill looks different than the '66 (I'm sure you guys all know that, just trying to find this in scale). Found this nice graphic: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Van Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 I have never heard that 64.5 hoods are different!! Anyone have any photos?? Love to see them. I have spent a lot of time working on first gen Mustangs.......this one I bought in 1975 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Thorne Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 Just a couple of pics that might help and one of the things on the side of the car that I have removed. Of course, Ace is correct about the generator. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phildaupho Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 I my opinion the best way to build an early Mustang Notchback is with the Monogram 1/24 64 Mustang Convertible. With some sanding the up-top can be converted into a very presentable hardtop. With this option you get a superior chassis, interior and correct grill. It does have reverse lights however. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webestang Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 The hood is mentioned here as well as other difference's...... https://www.cjponyparts.com/resources/1964-vs-1965-mustangs#:~:text=1964.5 vs 1965 Mustang Differences%3A Exterior&text=The first thing to check,rounded edges of the '65. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RancheroSteve Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 On 3/28/2024 at 7:00 AM, R. Thorne said: Of course, Ace is correct about the generator. If you want to get crazy detailed/correct about this, you'll also notice that this car also has a separate oil fill tube and no PCV valve, which marks it as "non-emission reduction" model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Force Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 The only 1964 1/2 Mustang kit I know of is the Revell Convertible kit wich started as Monogram and is a 1:24th scale kit. I don't own one so I don't know how true it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1972coronet Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 7 hours ago, RancheroSteve said: If you want to get crazy detailed/correct about this, you'll also notice that this car also has a separate oil fill tube and no PCV valve, which marks it as "non-emission reduction" model. That would make it a 1961 & earlier engine, hein ? PCV came along in 1961 (California) and 1962 (49-state). Some early PVC valves were on the intake manifold. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RancheroSteve Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 16 hours ago, 1972coronet said: That would make it a 1961 & earlier engine, hein ? PCV came along in 1961 (California) and 1962 (49-state). Some early PVC valves were on the intake manifold. Things were pretty mixed up in 1964, according to Bob Mannel's book "Mustang & Ford Small Block V8 1962-1969": In 1964, "Ford decided to use road draft tubes where still allowed". In 1962-63 the PCV valves were in the intake manifold as you said, but in 1964 they had moved the PCV valve and oil filler to the valve covers (as we're more used to seeing). So I take from all this that if you see a '64 car with the oil fill in front that it's most likely a non-PCV model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk11 Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 (edited) From what I've been able to glean from available info, it looks like '64 was the major transition year. It started with the oil filler and road draft tubes, evolved to the valve cover mounted pcv and vented oil fill cap along with the fully closed system for the CA cars. The trumpeter falcon would be about the only source I know of for a half decent scale generator setup. Only pic I can seem to find showing the original draft tube setup. Edited April 2 by mk11 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RancheroSteve Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 (edited) Yes, generally true - by 1965 all SBFs had the valve cover mounted PCV and oil filler, as well as the alternator and six bolt bellhousing, in addition a whole bunch of other small changes. I realize this is "angels dancing on the head of a pin" type stuff (especially in 1/25 scale) but kinda fascinating otherwise. Edited March 30 by RancheroSteve 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk11 Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 (edited) On 3/28/2024 at 7:39 AM, Dave Van said: I have never heard that 64.5 hoods are different!! This pic actually shows the difference... Note the front RH corner with the flange hanging down. This was known as the 'unimproved hood' in some quarters as the flange wasn't folded over like the front LH corner on the green side. They beveled the potmetal casting just above the fins to clear this on the early cars. As for a fairly accurate early 260/289, AMT had one right from the start, with the oil filler tube sticking up. In the pic below, note that the oil filler/fuel pump piece is illustrated upside down. The first '65 fastback kits also showed the generator, but the later instructions were amended to show an alternator instead. The monogram '64 instructions show only an alternator and no filler tube. My personal slant is that you're getting a more accurate 'capture' of the Mustang coupe body using the AMT kit. ymmv You might be able to adapt the monogram '64 grill with the mesh somehow, or just be patient until Round2 decides to release the '65 version of their '66 fastback (or luck into an original amt '65 grill) In regards to the '64 1/2' designation being merely invented by enthusiasts, Ford itself used the term in some parts books to delineate the early and later parts. Here's the trumpeter falcon parts... The generator parts are circled. Some neat ideas for engine detail here. Interesting story behind these kits; apparently they had an expert American model engineer consulting on the development. They decided to push him out and go their own way on this- with totally predictable results. (as anyone who has ever scoped out this kit knows) The highlight of this particular parts fret is of course the picasso-esque intake manifold 🤣 Edited April 2 by mk11 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4knflyin Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 I don't know when Ford started delivering as stock, seat belts. But I can attest that my 64 1/2 didn't have seatbelts, not even when I bought it in 1975. (I had them installed to keep my butt planted in corners... true story.) Car was stolen in '78. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Posted April 2 Author Share Posted April 2 7 hours ago, 4knflyin said: I don't know when Ford started delivering as stock, seat belts. But I can attest that my 64 1/2 didn't have seatbelts, not even when I bought it in 1975. (I had them installed to keep my butt planted in corners... true story.) Car was stolen in '78. My buddy's car didn't have seat belts in it - I remember because a state law requiring seatbelts was passed when we were teenagers and we didn't if it mattered since the car was older. Very sorry to hear the car was stolen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Posted April 2 Author Share Posted April 2 This question has turned into a more interesting conversation that I could have imagined. Thank you, all! I did pick up the 1966 AMT Mustang ... but that grill. I'm surprised there are no 3D printed offerings for the 65 (64.5) grill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk11 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 On 3/29/2024 at 8:00 PM, 1972coronet said: That would make it a 1961 & earlier engine, hein ? PCV came along in 1961 (California) and 1962 (49-state). Some early PVC valves were on the intake manifold. These windsor series 221/260/289 smallblocks were introduced in the '62 Fairlanes. While Ford may not have introduced the non-draft tube pcv systems into general production til the tail end of '64, they did apparently have kits to help their CA bound and produced vehicles meet the regulations. I came across one in the wreckers a few years back on a 260 Fairlane that was identical to this... Goes from the draft tube opening to the carb spacer plate. Wish I'd grabbed it now; they're getting scarce. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RancheroSteve Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 On 4/1/2024 at 5:19 PM, mk11 said: Here's the trumpeter falcon parts... The generator parts are circled. The generator and bracket are some of the few accurate parts in that kit, IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RancheroSteve Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 Just to detail this out a tiny bit more - here are a few shots from the Bob Mannel book. This one shows the non-emission road draft tube (the blow-by is just dumped out into the atmosphere): And two styles of the early PCV setup at the back of the intake manifold (connected to the carb spacer): 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk11 Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 Another thing to remember if you want to build a fairly accurate early Mustang is that they used the falcon cluster... The five dial cluster came along later in '65 for the GT package and was eventually made standard on the '66. Of course lots of parts get changed in sixty years, so whatever shows up on your personal project shows up ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodent Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 15 minutes ago, mk11 said: came along later in '65 for the GT package And the deluxe "Pony" interior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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